Divinity What makes a "Baldur's Gate" to you?

[Surf Solar]

Infinity Engine Viewport with those sidebars, prerendered 2d maps with touched up artwork or bust. I refuse to call everything besides that Baldurs Gate.

 

[Xamenos]

I am disgusted by all the people who did not vote for the Bhaalspawn Saga. You idiots are the reason shallow nostalgia-based marketing works and good old games are not allowed to remain undisturbed nowadays. I hate that I have to share this gay Earth and hobby with you.

 

[Erebus]

Fighting lots of enemy parties is perhaps the most outstanding thing about the BG games.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Besides BG1's finale, the most memorably battles for me were against a single, extremely powerful opponent (namely dragons and liches like Firkraag and Kangaxx)

The fights against one powerful enemy may have been more memorable, but the fights against enemy parties were just as entertaining and a lot more interesting from a tactical point of view.

I did not realize so many people liked Amelyssan

Who?

Do you perhaps remember, in ToB, an annoying woman you encounter when you're first teleported to the besieged city, who tells you several times to kill some people so you can save other people but then everybody dies anyway while she somehow manages to survive, yet your PC has to keep doing what she says until she's revealed by an equally annoying celestial to be the main villain of the game ? That was her.

 

[GhostCow]

I am disgusted by all the people who did not vote for the Bhaalspawn Saga. You idiots are the reason shallow nostalgia-based marketing works and good old games are not allowed to remain undisturbed nowadays. I hate that I have to share this gay Earth and hobby with you.

I didn't vote for it because I was voting for the bare minimum I would accept in BG3. The Bhaalspawn Saga is over. The only way I could see tying it in is if charname was the main villain in BG3

 

[Xamenos]

The Bhaalspawn Saga is over.

Precisely. The story is over. The series should be over. The only reason BG3 has that "3" in the title is stupid marketing. To even discuss the "bare minimum" one would accept is an unacceptable compromise.

 

[Dyspaire]

Lots of things mentioned here already; Fixed Isometric, AD&D ruleset, Forgotten Realms or more accurately Sword Coast setting, 6-person party size, etc.

But one thing I'm not sure has been mentioned; Art Direction inspired by Keith Parkinson and Larry Elmore.

 

[jungl]

larger then life characters. NPCs have wacky zany personalities. They are traveling companions first party members second. If they don't like what you are doing they dump you and talk shit. 6 person party and rtwp. Big outdoor areas and dangerous dungeons.

Divinity 3 I mean baldurs gate 3 looks... so when is realms beyond going into open or closed beta

 

[Drowed]

The problem is that there are the "must have" and the "should have", but that line is not something so simple to draw.

For example, items like 'Adapted D&D ruleset', 'Party-based', 'Big, open outdoor areas' are, at least for me, essential for a game that decides to use "Baldur's Gate" as its name. However, even if a game has all the essential points on someone's checklist doesn't mean it would be a game worthy of the name. This is because it is the sum of the small details that create the sense of legitimacy of something. It is not any of the individual items that make the difference, but the combination of them all.

For example if you take the original games and take only one non-essential feature out of them, you'd probably still say the game is mostly the same, though perhaps a slightly worse version of it. I bet most people wouldn't miss the romances so much. And maybe if the game didn't have any dragon fights it still would be interesting. The same for things like companions that come in duos, Underdark, pop-culture references, etc. But if you take enough things, although individually none of them matter that much, there comes a time when you feel that the game is no longer the same. It kinda looks the same, sounds the same, but something's wrong. It's like seeing an impostor.

And that's the big problem of trying to make a sequel of a series without the direct involvement of the team that created it in the first place, or trying to do it many years after the original game was released. A lot has changed, the people themselves have changed. These changes will certainly affect the design and essence of the game, and no matter how much the new team tries to respect the original series (which in itself is something rare, or maybe never happens), they will never be able to emulate the exact context that made that team create the game that exact way.

Hell, many people consider that Fallout 2 has a very different spirit than the first Fallout, and the games were released in consecutive years! With a very similar team! In that sense, it is better to follow the path of trying to make a "spiritual successor" (and fail at it, but whatever) than to really try to revive a franchise that, no matter how good the intentions are and no matter how qualified the current team is, will ultimately only be able to produce a frankenstein.

 

[DalekFlay]

Set in the Forgotten Realms near the city of Baldur's Gate, using AD&D rules. That's it, pretty much. New Vegas to me feels like a true sequel to Fallout 2 for those reasons, despite a complete change in gameplay.

I think there's two separate things going on though, in addition to the name/franchise/whatever, there's also "Baldur's Gate style game." Pillars and Pathfinder satisfy that need quite well, despite having different names and settings. In the end the name really means dick, it's all about the gameplay.

 

[Ysaye]

For me it would go a long way to feeling like Baldur's Gate if they got Kevin M. Richardson to do narration of "cut scenes" - that was a critical part of the memory. Particularly if we had a "You must gather your party before venturing forth."

It also needs to have separate disjointed maps for stuff that you can travel to from an overall map and that many of these maps don't have any necessary relevance to the storyline, with a number (less than 5, but two that are fairly large) of towns which are just getting on with their own lives.

 

[DalekFlay]

"You must gather your party before venturing forth."

The way to honor that IMO is to have an NPC say it as part of a quest, as a nice nod to the original, rather than making it part of the gameplay.

 

[Roguey]

I am disgusted by all the people who did not vote for the Bhaalspawn Saga.

Baldur's Gate is a place but I agree that the 3 is unnecessary. Might as well be Baldur's Gate (2021).

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Might as well be Baldur's Gate (2021).

Or, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Divinity: Original Sin 3.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Friendly reminder that the dark alliance games exist

 

[Felix]

Not made by Larian.

 

[catfood]

Stellar pathfinding.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Set in the Forgotten Realms near the city of Baldur's Gate, using AD&D rules. That's it, pretty much. New Vegas to me feels like a true sequel to Fallout 2 for those reasons, despite a complete change in gameplay.

I think there's two separate things going on though, in addition to the name/franchise/whatever, there's also "Baldur's Gate style game." Pillars and Pathfinder satisfy that need quite well, despite having different names and settings. In the end the name really means dick, it's all about the gameplay.

I wonder how much doom and gloom there'd be over FNV if it was announced today. I can just imagine the angry posts saying that because it's not a copy of the original it will be awful.

 

[Latro]

Set in the Forgotten Realms near the city of Baldur's Gate, using AD&D rules. That's it, pretty much. New Vegas to me feels like a true sequel to Fallout 2 for those reasons, despite a complete change in gameplay.

I think there's two separate things going on though, in addition to the name/franchise/whatever, there's also "Baldur's Gate style game." Pillars and Pathfinder satisfy that need quite well, despite having different names and settings. In the end the name really means dick, it's all about the gameplay.

I wonder how much doom and gloom there'd be over FNV if it was announced today. I can just imagine the angry posts saying that because it's not a copy of the original it will be awful.

FNV had mild hype because MCA era obsidian was involved

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Set in the Forgotten Realms near the city of Baldur's Gate, using AD&D rules. That's it, pretty much. New Vegas to me feels like a true sequel to Fallout 2 for those reasons, despite a complete change in gameplay.

I think there's two separate things going on though, in addition to the name/franchise/whatever, there's also "Baldur's Gate style game." Pillars and Pathfinder satisfy that need quite well, despite having different names and settings. In the end the name really means dick, it's all about the gameplay.

I wonder how much doom and gloom there'd be over FNV if it was announced today. I can just imagine the angry posts saying that because it's not a copy of the original it will be awful.

FNV had mild hype because MCA era obsidian was involved

#NOTMYFALLOUT

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Set in the Forgotten Realms near the city of Baldur's Gate, using AD&D rules. That's it, pretty much. New Vegas to me feels like a true sequel to Fallout 2 for those reasons, despite a complete change in gameplay.

I think there's two separate things going on though, in addition to the name/franchise/whatever, there's also "Baldur's Gate style game." Pillars and Pathfinder satisfy that need quite well, despite having different names and settings. In the end the name really means dick, it's all about the gameplay.

I wonder how much doom and gloom there'd be over FNV if it was announced today. I can just imagine the angry posts saying that because it's not a copy of the original it will be awful.

FNV had mild hype because MCA era obsidian was involved

#NOTMYFALLOUT

#OURFALLOUT

 

[Riddler]

The problem is that there are the "must have" and the "should have", but that line is not something so simple to draw.

For example, items like 'Adapted D&D ruleset', 'Party-based', 'Big, open outdoor areas' are, at least for me, essential for a game that decides to use "Baldur's Gate" as its name. However, even if a game has all the essential points on someone's checklist doesn't mean it would be a game worthy of the name. This is because it is the sum of the small details that create the sense of legitimacy of something. It is not any of the individual items that make the difference, but the combination of them all.

For example if you take the original games and take only one non-essential feature out of them, you'd probably still say the game is mostly the same, though perhaps a slightly worse version of it. I bet most people wouldn't miss the romances so much. And maybe if the game didn't have any dragon fights it still would be interesting. The same for things like companions that come in duos, Underdark, pop-culture references, etc. But if you take enough things, although individually none of them matter that much, there comes a time when you feel that the game is no longer the same. It kinda looks the same, sounds the same, but something's wrong. It's like seeing an impostor.

And that's the big problem of trying to make a sequel of a series without the direct involvement of the team that created it in the first place, or trying to do it many years after the original game was released. A lot has changed, the people themselves have changed. These changes will certainly affect the design and essence of the game, and no matter how much the new team tries to respect the original series (which in itself is something rare, or maybe never happens), they will never be able to emulate the exact context that made that team create the game that exact way.

Hell, many people consider that Fallout 2 has a very different spirit than the first Fallout, and the games were released in consecutive years! With a very similar team! In that sense, it is better to follow the path of trying to make a "spiritual successor" (and fail at it, but whatever) than to really try to revive a franchise that, no matter how good the intentions are and no matter how qualified the current team is, will ultimately only be able to produce a frankenstein.

This is all true and are real challenges when making a sequel to something but I feel like the real issue here isn't that Larian tried and failed but rather that they didn't even make the attempt.

This is DOS3 without even a thin coat of paint, people being upset that it is in no way shape or form a continuation of the previous games is to be expected.

 

[ItsChon]

Looks like almost everyone agrees a Baldur's Gate should be a party-based D&D game, everything else is up for debate. BG3 going to be a New Classic.

Yeah, because your PoE/Sawyer predictions panned out so well...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

This is DOS3 without even a thin coat of paint,

 

[ItsChon]

Infinity Engine Viewport with those sidebars, prerendered 2d maps with touched up artwork or bust. I refuse to call everything besides that Baldurs Gate.

Give me a game that uses the AD&D 2nd Edition IE, beautiful 2D art, good sound design, and has serviceable writing that captures the interest of the player through good world building, and we'll have a GotY and top 20 RPG on our hands. It's a shame that Bioware/Black Isle didn't milk the ever loving shit of IE. The decline would have eventually seeped in, but perhaps we would have gotten 2-3 more classic RPGs out of it before that was the case. IE had so much potential man, just give us new enemies, encounters, characters, settings, and items. The rubric was there!

 

[DalekFlay]

This is DOS3 without even a thin coat of paint, people being upset that it is in no way shape or form a continuation of the previous games is to be expected.

It still depends on quality, and how well you execute, more than anything else. Fallout 3 was a thin coat of pain over Oblivion, calling itself Fallout without hitting the right beats, and people here hated it. Fallout: New Vegas was the same coat of paint, but executed on much better and with a good Fallout story, setting and feel, and most here really enjoy it other than the try-hards. While some will hate BG3 no matter what, I feel it's destined for the same result... even if it is D:OS3, if it has good questing and feels like D&D at the end of the day, most will enjoy it.