Divinity What makes a "Baldur's Gate" to you?

[ItsChon]

. Fallout: New Vegas was the same coat of paint, but executed on much better and with a good Fallout story, setting and feel, and most here really enjoy it other than the try-hards.

The fact that people enjoyed Fallout: New Vegas doesn't mean that it was a good game, it just means that the vast majority of the people on the Codex are glorified paint-huffers, and if you feed them the right flavor, they'll sing its praises for the rest of time. The same people that enjoyed Oblivion with guns 2.0 are praising Larian for the abomination they've created.

 

[Riddler]

This is DOS3 without even a thin coat of paint, people being upset that it is in no way shape or form a continuation of the previous games is to be expected.

It still depends on quality, and how well you execute, more than anything else. Fallout 3 was a thin coat of pain over Oblivion, calling itself Fallout without hitting the right beats, and people here hated it. Fallout: New Vegas was the same coat of paint, but executed on much better and with a good Fallout story, setting and feel, and most here really enjoy it other than the try-hards. While some will hate BG3 no matter what, I feel it's destined for the same result... even if it is D:OS3, if it has good questing and feels like D&D at the end of the day, most will enjoy it.

I have to say I disagree, Bethesda tried going for a similar aesthetic to the original games, albeit in 3D. They might not have succeeded very well in the eyes of a F1-2 fan, but id say that they at least made the attempt.

Larian is doing no such thing. This might mean a better game in the end but it is even less a sequel to BG1-2 than F3 was to F1-2.

 

[Haplo]

I'm missing "Complex spell system" and "Interesting mage duels" and "Party vs party encounters".

Those were the most memorable things for me. Rest was pretty meh.

 

[DraQ]

Not made by Larian.

You called?

 

[Tytus]

The character creation screen of BG1 - I probably spent the most hours in it

 

[DraQ]

The character creation screen of BG1 - I probably spent the most hours in it

Rerolling dice I presume.

 

[Tytus]

The character creation screen of BG1 - I probably spent the most hours in it

Rerolling dice I presume.

Gotta get that 18/00, bro.

 

[NJClaw]

Infinity Engine Viewport with those sidebars, prerendered 2d maps with touched up artwork or bust. I refuse to call everything besides that Baldurs Gate.

Give me a game that uses the AD&D 2nd Edition IE, beautiful 2D art, good sound design, and has serviceable writing that captures the interest of the player through good world building, and we'll have a GotY and top 20 RPG on our hands. It's a shame that Bioware/Black Isle didn't milk the ever loving shit of IE. The decline would have eventually seeped in, but perhaps we would have gotten 2-3 more classic RPGs out of it before that was the case. IE had so much potential man, just give us new enemies, encounters, characters, settings, and items. The rubric was there!

I partially agree with you, but enough with AD&D. We have far better editions, 3.x (without the extremization of Pathfinder) and 5e are perfect for a videogame adaptation.

 

[scytheavatar]

Infinity Engine Viewport with those sidebars, prerendered 2d maps with touched up artwork or bust. I refuse to call everything besides that Baldurs Gate.

Give me a game that uses the AD&D 2nd Edition IE, beautiful 2D art, good sound design, and has serviceable writing that captures the interest of the player through good world building, and we'll have a GotY and top 20 RPG on our hands. It's a shame that Bioware/Black Isle didn't milk the ever loving shit of IE. The decline would have eventually seeped in, but perhaps we would have gotten 2-3 more classic RPGs out of it before that was the case. IE had so much potential man, just give us new enemies, encounters, characters, settings, and items. The rubric was there!

Are you being sarcastic? IE was already dated trash by the time of BG2. Think of it, the BG and Icewind Dale games were meh enough for shit like Planescape: Torment to be a classic.

 

[Jimmious]

Larian should see this poll to feel better

 

[Elex]

As someone who hasn't played a 5E game(I haven't played a tabletop game in many years) but has read the core rulebooks: it seems like they basically set out to make a better 2E tbh.

This is what happened with me years ago with 5e, when i readed about 4e i was “wtf is that? This is not D&D!” Instead with 5e i was suspicious at first (i was expecting 4eV2) but then i realized that was closer to AD&D than 3.5/pathfinder.

3.5/pathfinder are still great in videogame because the game do the heavy lifting

but at a table? There is no reason, 5e is flexible and a DM can add all the complexity he want and cut the stuff he don’t like.

 

[Elex]

What is classic fantasy and why it affects us in way it does is eternal debate, which would lead to Tolkien and what is Tolkien and so on.

But if you want to see what was lost in transition seek no further than Larian's own franchise, Divinity. Just compare the look and feel of Divinity 1 to newest ones and you will see.

In a world where you start from nautiloid burned by 3 dragons as vampire or exploding wizard there is no place for peasants and soldiers, no place for childhood rogue friends with 1 gp daggers, or +2 swords or defeating kobolds giving any satisfaction. And there is no place for you.

You are soo wrong.

you have no idea how is important that wotc allowed spelljammers in BG3.

All the old D&D fans want wotc to bring back spelljammer and planescape, and BG3 is the perfect troyan horse.


Speaking of BG1 start: the bad guy in the intro is an over the top edgy fighter with a high fantasy armor AND GLOWING EYES.

You start in candlekeep, the center of knowledge of the entire planet.
The most guarded and protected library: in the last tabletop incarnation if you try to enter candlekeep with no permission 1 archmage and 4 mages appear and if they need help they call 4 more archmages for support.

and of course you also meet Elminster the first day of travel!!

So no BG was not about paesant and soldiers.

BG was about being protected by harpist and the chosen of mystra in a magical fortress.

Only people that don’t know the forgotten realms think the start of BG was “simple and humble”

 

[AwesomeButton]

Looks like almost everyone agrees a Baldur's Gate should be a party-based D&D game, everything else is up for debate. BG3 going to be a New Classic.

Isometric and open world are pretty popular too. If even as much/as little as half the population considers them condition sine qua non, that means their absence will be a serious enough issue, i.e. it will come up on the mainstream radar.

I'm missing "Complex spell system" and "Interesting mage duels" and "Party vs party encounters".

Those were the most memorable things for me. Rest was pretty meh.

I've added "Party vs party encounters", but please specify "interesting" and "complex".

 

[Shadenuat]

fighter with glowing eyes = high fantasy lol

yes, you start in some keep. you have no idea about chosens or whatever or who you are.

you meet Elminster in same way characters meet Gandalf in beginning of LoTRs.

sigh

I tire. this journey was long and I need to center myself.

face the decline without me.

 

[Elex]

I am disgusted by all the people who did not vote for the Bhaalspawn Saga. You idiots are the reason shallow nostalgia-based marketing works and good old games are not allowed to remain undisturbed nowadays. I hate that I have to share this gay Earth and hobby with you.

I didn't vote for it because I was voting for the bare minimum I would accept in BG3. The Bhaalspawn Saga is over. The only way I could see tying it in is if charname was the main villain in BG3

The continued the bhaalspawn saga in the tabletop adventures.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Murder_in_Baldur's_Gate

[URL]https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate:_Descent_into_Avernus[/URL]
(notice how descent book have bhaal symbol on it)

Charname is dead.
Now bhaal is back and alive.
In BG3 we face the dead three cultist.
So basically the plan of bhaal is going on.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Larian should see this poll to feel better

I don't know if they would feel better, my reading is lots of people are hung up on the open world and big open areas features, which is something Larian has no or little experience with.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

3.5/pathfinder are still great in videogame because the game do the heavy lifting

I feel like I'm in a minority that has a strong dislike for 3.5/pathfinder.

 

[Jimmious]

Larian should see this poll to feel better

I don't know if they would feel better, my reading is lots of people are hung up on the open world and big open areas features, which is something Larian has no or little experience with.

My reading is that all the most important aspects for players are covered by BG3.
It's isometric, party-based, high fantasy, AD&D, big open world is probably a given as well as big open outdoor areas... Basically we only need to see the "main antagonist". It's also in or around Sword Coast afaik

 

[AwesomeButton]

The fact that people enjoyed Fallout: New Vegas doesn't mean that it was a good game, it just means that the vast majority of the people on the Codex are glorified paint-huffers, and if you feed them the right flavor, they'll sing its praises for the rest of time. The same people that enjoyed Oblivion with guns 2.0 are praising Larian for the abomination they've created.

The overlap isn't that complete. I detested FO3, never played Oblivion, but I liked FNV (one of the few RPGs I've played from start to finish), and I'm rather skeptic about BG3.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Larian should see this poll to feel better

I don't know if they would feel better, my reading is lots of people are hung up on the open world and big open areas features, which is something Larian has no or little experience with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity_II
hell, even divine divinity counts

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's also in or around Sword Coast afaik

Yeah, that's confirmed.

big open world is probably a given as well as big open outdoor areas

That's the thing, form what I've seen of the D:OS games, Larian is doing corridors and labyrinths, not real open areas like in BG/2. The main thing they need to nail in my opinion is the exploration. The rest they will more or less cover. Sure, I'll detest the writing, but I know I'm in the minority about attaching significance to that.

 

[AwesomeButton]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity_II
hell, even divine divinity counts

Bringing up a 2009 game is clutching at straws Look at the latest and actually successful stuff they've made.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

That's the thing, form what I've seen of the D:OS games, Larian is doing corridors and labyrinths, not real open areas like in BG/2. The main thing they need to nail in my opinion is the exploration. The rest they will more or less cover. Sure, I'll detest the writing, but I know I'm in the minority about attaching significance to that.

Cyseal(D:OS) and Reaper's Coast(D:OS2) are way, way bigger than any area in any of the BG games.
These are areas that will probably take 40-60 hours to "fully" complete.

First time I played D:OS I remember finishing Cyseal and then remembering that the entire thing was basically a sidequest to my main quest and realizing there's still an entire rest of the game.

 

[Jimmious]

That's the thing, form what I've seen of the D:OS games, Larian is doing corridors and labyrinths, not real open areas like in BG/2.

Yeah that we will have to see. Although I do think that in D:OS2 the exploration aspect was pretty cool in general

 

[Jedi Exile]

I'd say a game can have all this features and still not be a 'Baldur's Gate'. Maybe it should be a game made by early BioWare with those people who actually made first two games.