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Ultima What makes an "Ultima" game to you?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Ysaye, Mar 7, 2020.

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What makes an "Ultima" game to you? (Choose 3)

  1. A naive representative of of the British(tm) family is in the game

    2 vote(s)
    5.4%
  2. A morality system that (pre)-defines your character's position in the world

    8 vote(s)
    21.6%
  3. Night and day cycles and detailed activity schedules for NPCs

    13 vote(s)
    35.1%
  4. Lots and lots of books that can be read and tell you about the world

    5 vote(s)
    13.5%
  5. A somewhat convoluted magic system with reagents, runes and a spellbook

    14 vote(s)
    37.8%
  6. Moongates that allow you to travel, boats and a magic carpet

    7 vote(s)
    18.9%
  7. Top down view with incorrectly angled walls

    6 vote(s)
    16.2%
  8. An armageddon spell that kills most NPCs and breaks the game

    4 vote(s)
    10.8%
  9. You can bake bread

    15 vote(s)
    40.5%
  10. Shepherds and Tinkers are classes

    6 vote(s)
    16.2%
  11. The main bad guy is external to the world

    1 vote(s)
    2.7%
  12. Other

    4 vote(s)
    10.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Ysaye Savant

    Ysaye
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    A much more interesting, pertinent version of a question of the one already up about Baldur's Gate. What would make you accept a new game out as an "Ultima"?
     
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  2. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

    Generic-Giant-Spider
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    If it carried the name "Ultima" and was made by Larian Studios.
     
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  3. Ontopoly Hater of Larian

    Ontopoly
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    The name and only the name. Nothing else. And if a new game with the name Ultima came out in current year it would be the best Ultima
     
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  4. deuxhero Arcane

    deuxhero
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    Richard Garriott or is UU2.
     
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  5. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    I've barely played Ultima games, so an outsiders perspective... the thing I most know the series for is the Avatar's pure moral code.
     
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  6. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    If it replaced Ultima 9 and was a good resolution to the Guardian saga
     
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  7. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    "Top down view with incorrectly angled walls"

    Dungeons in Ultima have 1st-person view in the style of Wizardry:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Ranarama Learned

    Ranarama
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    A top down view like U5, before they fucked it up.
     
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  9. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    rtwp combat
     
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  10. RatTower Arcane Developer

    RatTower
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    Interactivity and world simulation.

    That's mostly 5-7 though (UO does a pretty good job at it as well - The only thing missing are day cycles for NPCs. Other than that it's probably the one with the most interactive environment)
    Ultima 9 is a mixed bag when it comes to interactivity and world simulation. Some stuff works fine, other stuff doesn't. The game has other problems (lots of them).

    My main gripe with Ultima 8 was the lack of a proper open world, so that probably is also a thing that makes an Ultima game to me.
     
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  11. Ysaye Savant

    Ysaye
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    In some ways, I think Larian are better suited (relatively) to creating an Ultima than a Baldur's Gate.
     
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  12. Ysaye Savant

    Ysaye
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    So Ultima Forever 2 by EA would qualify for you?
     
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  13. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    Given the "quality" of their writing I rather they defile Baldur's Gate than Ultima
     
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  14. Terenty Arbiter

    Terenty
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    Underworld Ascension is the best Ultima so far
     
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  15. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    My favorite things about Ultima are:
    - interactivity and simulation;
    - emergent gameplay;
    - continuity between lore and gameplay (e.g. magic system);
    - open-endedness and lack of hand-holding.


    My least favorite things about Ultima are
    - self-inserts;
    - naive "moral philosophy";
    - repetitive geography (most of the games being set on the same continent, with the same cities and dungeons);
    - too few numbers.

    Now if someone made a game that would have the former but not the latter, I'd be very happy...

    The original DivDiv was supposed to be their Ultima with a hint of Fallout. No, thanks, next.
     
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  16. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    Name
    Job
    Bye
     
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  17. taxalot I'm a spicy fellow. Patron

    taxalot
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    Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    A game World that feels both enormous and yet handcrafted. This is what U7 did differently than most open worlds. Every character in the game had their place in the world and interacted with each others accordingly.
     
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  18. SausageInYourFace Angelic Reinforcement Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    In an Ultima game, I can talk to Andyman Messiah and he will give me hints for the previous game.
     
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  19. Archwizard Hank Learned

    Archwizard Hank
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    Ultima is incomplete without the mountains of required documentation
     
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  20. Ysaye Savant

    Ysaye
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    Just to clarify, I didn't say Larian would make a good Ultima, just their Ultima would be better than their Baldur's Gate....
     
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  21. samuraigaiden Cipher

    samuraigaiden
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    RPG Wokedex
    Keyword-based dialogue.
     
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  22. Darth Canoli Arcane

    Darth Canoli
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    Didn't know that but it worked for me, ultima was my least favorite franchise from the stone age, along with Bard Tales and Divinity was really good, in spite of its diablo gameplay.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  23. SausageInYourFace Angelic Reinforcement Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    One thing people don't talk about a lot is that Ultima & DivinityOS are actually pretty tonally similar. Particularly Ultima 7 has a generally serious story but also a lot of really whacky moments. You can talk to a speaking horse one moment but then come across a druid sacrificing a baby on an altar in the woods. Same in Divinity where you have some whacky shit one moment and then find a huge pile of dead bodies and a river of blood somehwere the next. Personally, I love these contrasts and tonal shifts as they keep things fresh and interesting but I guess it breaks the immersion of storyfags or something.

    Another thing Divinity is really similar to Ultima is the environmental interaction and the way it allows you to just play around in the gameworld. I think its pretty evident Larian took some inspiration from U7 in that department, its Svens favorite RPG afterall.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  24. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    Not in a literal sense (in a literal sense it reuses the engine and assets from their attempt at making a Diablo-like TDE game), but in terms of most oft-cited source of inspiration. Though it turned out Larian understood Ultima as "whimsical writing and moving stuff around" which misses the point by about half a universe.
    I don't know about that. Larian's problem is that they don't understand how to design RPG mechanics beyond the Diablo-style loot and leveling treadmills. Having to work with DnD rules may rectify that. Ultima, on the other hand, has always been very mechanics-light, so Larian's Ultima would be just another Divinity game with Ultima TM slapped on it. And Divinity games don't make good Ultimas because Ultima is all about worldbuilding, both through narrative and level design, and Larian never got it right either.
     
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