Incline What RPGs are non-linear without level scaling?

[rusty_shackleford]

To be more specific: What RPGs are non-linear without level scaling and content is still challenging?

Not to be confused with "open world but if you don't go in the exact path the developers wanted you'll get stomped on because you're underleveled"

 

[CryptRat]

Star Trail because of the slow number progression of the system, same with Voidspire Tactics.

Don't Fallout 1 & 2 kind of fit to a lesser extent? There's a big part of the games after the very beginning and before you get a power armor where you will face rightful challenge wherever you decide to go.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Not 100% open world, but Expeditions games.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Daggerfall & Morrowind, for sure. After that, it's the non-linear part that gets a bit tricky. I can't honestly say that I play many open world RPGs. I would cautiously say Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, but after a certain point the directions a player can go get really limited. They also do have a teeny tiny bit of level scaling. Nothing compared to the present day notion of level scaling. NWN 2: Storm of Zehir doesn't level scale, even if some zones are plot restricted. You can definitely get your ass handed to you any time you want in that game by going far off the beaten path.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Daggerfall & Morrowind, for sure. After that, it's the non-linear part that gets a bit tricky. I can't honestly say that I play many open world RPGs. I would cautiously say Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, but after a certain point the directions a player can go get really limited. They also do have a teeny tiny bit of level scaling. Nothing compared to the present day notion of level scaling. NWN 2: Storm of Zehir doesn't level scale, even if some zones are plot restricted. You can definitely get your ass handed to you any time you want in that game by going far off the beaten path.

Daggerfall is level-scaled.
Why doesn't it ever get hate for it? Dunno.

Morrowind is too, but to a much smaller extent than Daggerfall/Oblivion.

 

[buffalo bill]

ADOM

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Well damn. I guess I didn't realize, or had forgotten. It's been a loooong time. This will probably be a very short list.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Gothic and Betrayal at Krondor are the first things that come to mind.

 

[V_K]

Dragon Wars, due to very slow character growth, but also because of a ton of alternative paths and solutions.
Amberstar has some dependencies in its quest chains but otherwise is very free-form.
Wizardry 7 after first few levels.

 

[mondblut]

What RPGs are non-linear without level scaling and content is still challenging?

Not to be confused with "open world but if you don't go in the exact path the developers wanted you'll get stomped on because you're underleveled"

You can't have both, duh. The level of opposition either scales with you, or with geography, or it stops being challenging after you gain a couple of levels. How else are you going to scale it, huh? With time? With passing plot points?

 

[Tigranes]

I mean, we could just start with "What RPGs are challenging?" and we'd end up with a pretty small list to begin with.

 

[Butter]

How else are you going to scale it, huh? With time? With passing plot points?

Yes. It's called Vigilantes.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

What RPGs are non-linear without level scaling and content is still challenging?

Not to be confused with "open world but if you don't go in the exact path the developers wanted you'll get stomped on because you're underleveled"

You can't have both, duh. The level of opposition either scales with you, or with geography, or it stops being challenging after you gain a couple of levels. How else are you going to scale it, huh? With time? With passing plot points?

You can just throw all RPG elements out of the window, and just have players unlocking new abilities without necessarily increasing his power exponentially. Sure it's decline, but some already declined games would actually benefit from it. I don't think that ME would be especially worse if it was just a non-lineal shooter without having to collect thousands of trash weapons to find one that's slightly better than what you're already using.

 

[purupuru]

BG1 by virtue of having a low exp cap, though I guess you can say it's not a particularly challenging game without mods.
If we count JRPGs then Dark Souls would qualify.

 

[mondblut]

You can just throw all RPG elements out of the window

Sure, but he asked for RPGs.

 

[Funposter]

Daggerfall is level-scaled.
Why doesn't it ever get hate for it? Dunno.

because ancient vampires can still spawn when you're level 2 and will fuck your ass

 

[AdolfSatan]

Dark Sun Shattered Lands should fit this criteria if you don't cheese with triclassing and stat edit.

 

[DraQ]

Daggerfall & Morrowind, for sure. After that, it's the non-linear part that gets a bit tricky. I can't honestly say that I play many open world RPGs. I would cautiously say Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, but after a certain point the directions a player can go get really limited. They also do have a teeny tiny bit of level scaling. Nothing compared to the present day notion of level scaling. NWN 2: Storm of Zehir doesn't level scale, even if some zones are plot restricted. You can definitely get your ass handed to you any time you want in that game by going far off the beaten path.

Daggerfall is level-scaled.
Why doesn't it ever get hate for it? Dunno.

Morrowind is too, but to a much smaller extent than Daggerfall/Oblivion.

Morrowind is a patchwork of scaled and not scaled content.
NPCs are not scaled, some generic monsters are to varying degree so is generic (but not specific) loot.
So if you find Ibar-Dad at lvl1 it will still be a treasure trove of daedric gear with golden saint ready to buttfuck you.

If mods count, Skyrim with Requiem is unleveled and reasonably challenging because mistakes can easily end you even when facing low level threats.

What RPGs are non-linear without level scaling and content is still challenging?

Not to be confused with "open world but if you don't go in the exact path the developers wanted you'll get stomped on because you're underleveled"

You can't have both, duh. The level of opposition either scales with you, or with geography, or it stops being challenging after you gain a couple of levels. How else are you going to scale it, huh? With time? With passing plot points?

This - is why we can't have the nice things. Because brainlets can't comprehend the notion of advancement that doesn't invalidate all but most trivial challenges while unlocking (by making them not strictly suicidal) more advanced ones.

Grind moar to overcum, hurr my carebearl RPG genre!

 

[DraQ]

You can just throw all RPG elements out of the window, and just have players unlocking new abilities without necessarily increasing his power exponentially. Sure it's decline

You don't need to throw RPG elements out of the window and you have misspelled "incline".

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Gothic does a good job at this, IMO. Basically, games that are successful at this make a meta game out of finding the right encounters for your progression and trying to create your own order. Also pairs well with Starving for XP/Loot. Dark Souls/Bloodborne aren’t CRPGs but they have similar meta games.

Some games do an OK job with creating “biomes” where you can do things at your own pace but only within a 20% or so portion of the progression ladder. As an example, in Kingmaker, you’re mostly free to explore a region, walk away from some shit for later, and choose to do the story missions before or after your side quest stuff and artisan shit. But you can only do it a chunk at a time, so the range of content vs progression is narrower and the probability/severity of encountering things way out of your league is lessened. That said, you still have shit like random encounters in your first region that are total faceroll but you can evade them.

 

[JarlFrank]

You can just throw all RPG elements out of the window, and just have players unlocking new abilities without necessarily increasing his power exponentially. Sure it's decline

You don't need to throw RPG elements out of the window and you have misspelled "incline".

Yep. The flatter the power curve, the better. Of course that doesn't mean the player shouldn't be noticeably more powerful towards the end than at the beginning, but horizontal growth > vertical growth.

 

[vazha]

Prelude to Darkness, obviously.

 

[Lurker47]

RPG where you go from level 1 to level 5 to level 10 to level 2 to level 4 to level 30 to level 3. Make it happen, people.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

You can just throw all RPG elements out of the window, and just have players unlocking new abilities without necessarily increasing his power exponentially. Sure it's decline

You don't need to throw RPG elements out of the window and you have misspelled "incline".

Yep. The flatter the power curve, the better. Of course that doesn't mean the player shouldn't be noticeably more powerful towards the end than at the beginning, but horizontal growth > vertical growth.

If you completely flatten the curve, you'll be left with a slightly less lineal Zelda game in the end.

 

[purupuru]

I think the key is making sure there is no HP bloat on either side. Say at lv1 you get killed in 1 hit and kill the skeleton in 3 hits, while by end game you kill the skeleton in 1 hit and get killed in 3 hits, you are arguably 9 times stronger but can still get fucked up if you are not careful.
Of course the player would most likely get some CC abilities as he level up and those would trivialize some low level encounters should he learn to use them, and I think that's fine. If the player is willing to learn then he deserves to get something good, not some sawyerish "-10 deflection for 2.8 seconds" disappointment.