What's more important in a CRPG?

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Ultima Underworld scores the trifecta.

 

[veryalien]

I should say the roleplaying part. So you should be able to, within the CRPG setting, a specific role you choose. The more freedom you have the better.

Everything else just improves that core experience.

 

[Invictus]

I would have to say it depends on what kind of RPG you are playing; if you are playing a blobber like Dungeon Master you pretty much know that setting and story are going to come second to combat since you will spend 70% of your time on that; if you don't like the combat then the setting or story are simply not going to do it for you. Planescape is a good example of now even combat fags can appreciate an imaginative setting in spite of little combat. Darklands is another example, the combat is ok, the "main story" is good but the setting and the game mechanics are superb.
What I am getting at is that a good game is like a good meal where the whole result should always be more important than the ingredients, the drink or the company; it is quite interesting bringing up Might and Magic since none of its elements (the graphics, combat, setting, story) are particulary interesting by themselves but together they make a great combination; if the game can be outstanding in one aspect or more it is way easier to forgive other less favorable aspects
That is interesting to note because the holy trinity (torment, fallout, arcanum) have generaly shitty combat, great setting and great story...with the setting beign the most memorable thing in at least 2 of them

 

[Amn Nom]

I tend to play most of my RPGs for the story, so that is most important for me. Setting obviously comes next because a setting is half the story if the writer is any good (they often aren't in games unfortunately..). Gameplay comes last because there are very few RPGs that I legitimately like the gameplay of enough to play them on those merits alone.

 

[eric__s]

jfjyujkkkhckghcghxhn

 

[Monad]

For me, setting is the most important because if the setting is uninteresting, it won't grab me. I love worldbuilding first and foremost I guess.

 

[V_K]

For me it's non-combat gameplay (puzzles, survival, exploration, non-combat solurions to quests), then setting, then writing. I wouldn't mind playing a completeley combat-free RPG.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

I miss "multiple quest solutions based on character archetypes/skills".

I.e. - no skill checks - no RPG.

 

[Lhynn]

The most important thing is that all of the above form a solid whole.

Codex disagrees, the most important thing is seeing one of those elements reaching (near) perfection instead... a 10 2 2 y better than a 5 5 5.

 

[Akratus]

1. Sex Appeal
2. Gore
3. Particle Effects

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

1. Sex Appeal
2. Gore
3. Particle Effects

Sadly, most review sites agree with you.

 

[Renegen]

Story first, then combat and setting. Dishonored had a great setting but ultimately was short and heavily influenced by modern popamole design. A good story is extremely rare and leaves you hanging while good combat represents the core mechanics of an RPG and is essential to be good.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Holy fucking necro

I used to be a combatfag, but now my list of priorities of what I'm looking for in a CRPG is as follows:

1) Outstanding dungeon and puzzle design (ex.: Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardries) or, in case of Ultima-likes, outstanding world design/exploration/clue design (ex.: Ultima V, 2400 A.D., Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan)
2) Innovative/unorthodox RPG (combat/exploration/character development/whatever) mechanics (ex.: Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardry 4, Labyrinth of Touhou, Shin Megami Tensei)
3) Resource management (ex.: The Legacy)
4) Atmosphere (ex.: ShadoWorlds)

Good to see my priorities haven't changed since last February, at least. :D

 

[Telengard]

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development.

Nonsense

Without character development it isn't an RPG. It is an adventure or action game, etc... Character development is the defining element of an RPG. From the days of its RPG games inception, character development was the key (ie Chainmail was a board game, to which they applied character development within a story to facilitate strategic encounters which resulted in D&D). Story focused RPG's were a later adaptation, though even so they function on a certain level of character development. With cGames, the genres were defined in the realms of action, adventure, strategy, and RPG. Hybrids obvisly existed, but a game without character development is one of the other categories.

I hope you are not one of those who subjectively and irrationally terms an RPG as "I play a role, its a game... so its a role playing game". If that is the case, well... all games are RPGs. /boggle

Bullshit. Educate yourself.

Failure to state. Enter the discussion or go fuck yourself.

I'll bite, since Excidium doesn't seem to want to.

So, RECON is one of the oldest pnp RPGs, and it has minimalist character development. If one's character survives, one will pimp out a few of his skills, but largely a character remains what he is at the beginning. And in that beginning, character creation is minimal. There are few choices, and almost every character aspect is determined with a roll of a die.

In the wake of RECON, there have been a number of RPGs released in this sub-genre since. Admittedly they are few, relegated to indie efforts and the occasional small press, since the plebs really like their level-ups and power-ups. Not to mention what happened during the years when d20 "where character development is king" dominated, which served to relegate this sub-genre even more. Still, these RPGs do exist.

Computer games have by and large used only the most popular rulesets. And even when they do develop their own ruleset, it generally follows the framework established by the popular rulesets. So, in a genre dominated by D&D, D&D or D&D-like rulesets dominate - with levels and loot and what all. But this does not preclude someone from making a game from the minimalist-character-development school.

 

[JarlFrank]

Setting, combat, story.

 

[Xenich]

I would say for it to be a cRPG, it should first and foremost have a strong focus on character development.

Nonsense

Without character development it isn't an RPG. It is an adventure or action game, etc... Character development is the defining element of an RPG. From the days of its RPG games inception, character development was the key (ie Chainmail was a board game, to which they applied character development within a story to facilitate strategic encounters which resulted in D&D). Story focused RPG's were a later adaptation, though even so they function on a certain level of character development. With cGames, the genres were defined in the realms of action, adventure, strategy, and RPG. Hybrids obvisly existed, but a game without character development is one of the other categories.

I hope you are not one of those who subjectively and irrationally terms an RPG as "I play a role, its a game... so its a role playing game". If that is the case, well... all games are RPGs. /boggle

Bullshit. Educate yourself.

Failure to state. Enter the discussion or go fuck yourself.

I'll bite, since Excidium doesn't seem to want to.

So, RECON is one of the oldest pnp RPGs, and it has minimalist character development. If one's character survives, one will pimp out a few of his skills, but largely a character remains what he is at the beginning. And in that beginning, character creation is minimal. There are few choices, and almost every character aspect is determined with a roll of a die.

In the wake of RECON, there have been a number of RPGs released in this sub-genre since. Admittedly they are few, relegated to indie efforts and the occasional small press, since the plebs really like their level-ups and power-ups. Not to mention what happened during the years when d20 "where character development is king" dominated, which served to relegate this sub-genre even more. Still, these RPGs do exist.

Computer games have by and large used only the most popular rulesets. And even when they do develop their own ruleset, it generally follows the framework established by the popular rulesets. So, in a genre dominated by D&D, D&D or D&D-like rulesets dominate - with levels and loot and what all. But this does not preclude someone from making a game from the minimalist-character-development school.

RECON was 1981. D&D was created in 1974 from Chainmail by Gygax and Arneson.

My point is that D&D defined what we know to be a Role Playing Game. Other systems adapted and adjusted from that. For instance Traveller was more story specific (1977) and much later the White Wolf systems became far more story centric with extremely simplified development systems, but in the end... it all came from D&D.

Character development is central to RPGs. Now that doesn't mean it has to be STRONG in character development to be one, but it is the basis to what an RPG is.

In cRPGs, a games system is categorized in basic terms as I mentioned earlier. For instance, adventure games lacked character progression, focused on story and setting, as well as puzzle solving. Action games had very limited character statistics with no real progression, usually the HP/Stam or Magic bar similar to arcade games. Without character development, games fall into those other categories. Character development is the key aspect of an RPG, it defines it. Without it, a game is either an action game, an adventure game, strategy, etc...

 

[undecaf]

Would brofist, but there's a thing... RPG's aren't about the charactersystem, that is a part of the whole, but what makes an RPG an RPG is the degree of how much (in conjuction with the storyline) it reacts with the player; the character system is of course part of it, but the soul comes from the way you can interact with the given world.

In further example (in a nutshell): The charactersystem is a part of the whole, but the whole is comprised of more than that.

 

[Xenich]

Would brofist, but there's a thing... RPG's aren't about the charactersystem, that is a part of the whole, but what makes an RPG an RPG is the degree of how much (in conjuction with the storyline) it reacts with the player; the character system is of course part of it, but the soul comes from the way you can interact with the given world.

In further example (in a nutshell): The charactersystem is a part of the whole, but the whole is comprised of more than that.

I am not discounting the importance of such, just pointing out that without a character system, the games are a different genre. For instance, take Kings Quest and Quest for Glory. Both are the same game in about every way... except for character development to which Quest For Glory has. Yet we call Kings Quest an "Adventure game" and Quest for Glory an "RPG". Character development is the defining element of an RPG. As you mentioned, there is more to it than that in an RPGs design, and I agree... but my point is that without that key element, the game is another genre.

 

[undecaf]

Would brofist, but there's a thing... RPG's aren't about the charactersystem, that is a part of the whole, but what makes an RPG an RPG is the degree of how much (in conjuction with the storyline) it reacts with the player; the character system is of course part of it, but the soul comes from the way you can interact with the given world.

In further example (in a nutshell): The charactersystem is a part of the whole, but the whole is comprised of more than that.

I am not discounting the importance of such, just pointing out that without a character system, the games are a different genre. For instance, take Kings Quest and Quest for Glory. Both are the same game in about every way... except for character development to which Quest For Glory has. Yet we call Kings Quest an "Adventure game" and Quest for Glory an "RPG". Character development is the defining element of an RPG. As you mentioned, there is more to it than that in an RPGs design, and I agree... but my point is that without that key element, the game is another genre.

Fair enough. But for an RPG to be an RPG it needs to have the proper world interaction for the PC (be in PnP or cRPG); elsewise it is just an action/adventure game with stats. A proper RPG always has to have the interaction things covered along with combat if there is such. But, if an RPG offered you a character with stats, but without any improvables, then that's what you'd have to play. That's playing a role.

 

[veryalien]

OK seriously. The most important thing in RPGs is your mother.

 

[undecaf]

OK seriously. The most important thing in RPGs is your mother.

No not your mother, My moter.

 

[Longshanks]

To me, none of combat, story or setting are of prime importance in a cRPG and I don't think weighting them against each other holds any value. In terms of RPGness of a cRPG though, combat is intrinsically more important than the other two as it ties in with the character, but for a specific game any of the either two could supercede it in importance.

Which of the three do I personally favour? Don't know. Some of my favourite games have ordinary combat and excellent story, others ordinary story and excellent combat. Setting may be less important to me than the other two as I'd find it hard to enjoy a game with ordinary combat and writing even if the setting was nice, but really a game is a sum of its parts, taking out individual elements and battling them doesn't really work for me.

 

[octavius]

OK seriously. The most important thing in RPGs is your mother.

Have you romanced your mother?

 

[veryalien]

OK seriously. The most important thing in RPGs is your mother.

Have you romanced your mother?

No. Just yours.

 

[TigerKnee]

I used to be a combatfag, but now my list of priorities of what I'm looking for in a CRPG is as follows:

1) Outstanding dungeon and puzzle design (ex.: Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardries) or, in case of Ultima-likes, outstanding world design/exploration/clue design (ex.: Ultima V, 2400 A.D., Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan)
2) Innovative/unorthodox RPG (combat/exploration/character development/whatever) mechanics (ex.: Dark Heart of Uukrul, Wizardry 4, Labyrinth of Touhou, Shin Megami Tensei)
3) Resource management (ex.: The Legacy)
4) Atmosphere (ex.: ShadoWorlds)

Good to see my priorities haven't changed since last February, at least. :D

Man, this sounds like good stuff to note down and try.