What's the reason that alternative forms of obtaining information from NPCs is so underutilized?

[aweigh]

Interesting about BG. I'll keep that in mind when I eventually play it.

BTW is BG one of those games that to play now you really need a mod or fanpatch to fix shit or is it fine as is?

luckily for you Beamdog thought about this... for a low low price of 60 dollars you can play the game with modern sensibilities and all of the original charm replaced, guaranteed.

 

[Beastro]

Interesting about BG. I'll keep that in mind when I eventually play it.

BTW is BG one of those games that to play now you really need a mod or fanpatch to fix shit or is it fine as is?

luckily for you Beamdog thought about this...

That's out of the question if only because I already own the original version.

 

[aweigh]

That's out of the question if only because I already own the original version.

i oppose beamdog shit and their changes, was trying to make a joke but it came off as supportive of them so i edited it.

anyway to answer your question: nope. Only patch needed for original BGs, PST or IWD, are the widescreen/high resolution patches if you want to play them in that resolutoin; if not, then no, nothing is really needed.

 

[laclongquan]

And if you think the games are too easy (even in insane mode), SCS for the increased challenge.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Goddamnit, don't start with that shit. Now you'll make him think it's too easy and he needs mods.

First playthrough - nobody needs mods.

Mods are there to add replayability. A lot of people replay these games 4-8 times. It's nice to mix things up, so mods are a good way to do that. First time - no, just no.

 

[JarlFrank]

Not exciting at all. You click to interrogate and then the dice is rolled and you learn an outcome. The game was fun through.

I was tempted by Vigilantes but some reviews said the combat is basic and shallow. :/

The combat is decent but there's not that much to the game apart from it. You have some basic management of your team, abstract investigations where you assign your team to stake out city districts, and then there's combat against the three gangs which is the main meat of the game. You stake out areas to find the hideouts of the bad guys, then go there to fight them, that's pretty much it.

 

[Beastro]

Goddamnit, don't start with that shit. Now you'll make him think it's too easy and he needs mods.

First playthrough - nobody needs mods.

Mods are there to add replayability. A lot of people replay these games 4-8 times. It's nice to mix things up, so mods are a good way to do that. First time - no, just no.

I'm not looking for mods to add stuff, just checking if it's got bits to it like VtM and other games where it's simply better to add some fan patches and shit even for a first playthrough.

 

[laclongquan]

Then you dont need SCS just yet. The nature of SCS is to increase challenge, so they add stuffs like more sequence, more fodders, more AI etc... A pure first time run dont need SCS. If you think it's too easy just up the difficulty to the highest level.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

he nature of SCS is to increase challenge, so they add stuffs like more sequence, more fodders, more AI

, more bugs...

 

[laclongquan]

Well of course~ At least they never refer their mod as patch.

Sword Coast Stratagems. If that doesnt scare off the noobs nothing will.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

No one mentioned speaking with the dead in Torment yet ? You can get some cool dialogues if you go back to the morgue with it.

Also,

- We come to benefit from your immense wisdom.
- What is it you wanna know ?
- What is your name ?

 

[Sigourn]

Well of course~ At least they never refer their mod as patch.

Sword Coast Stratagems. If that doesnt scare off the noobs nothing will.

Can confirm: the name is 2spooky.

 

[Lilura]

No, the best one is:

Spoiler

[Note: These dialogue screencaps were taken from an authoritative source.]

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

No, the best one is:

Spoiler

[Note: These dialogue screencaps were taken from an authoritative source.]

Hey, wait! I've uh... come to benefit from your authoritative wisdom. What are your expectations for BG3?

 

[Lilura]

Meh, I'm not in this thread to talk about BG3. Maybe you don't know (could it be possible?), but I have a blog. And on that blog are no fewer than six recent write-ups on BG3 (despite the fact that almost nothing is known about the game.)

Within those six write-ups, I'm pretty sure you'll find your answer.

 

[Tigranes]

Well, you see, she was also spurned by a man in tight leggings, after which she is condemned to eternal life seeking ever more blog hits...

 

[MajorMace]

Question boils down to "Why are studios not all that creative ?"
Answer is the market doesn't reward creativity that well (or rather, not that consistently).

You can get praise with a very standard format, if it's executed well enough (or if you gave enough doritos prior to the VGA). Why bother from here.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Meh, I'm not in this thread to talk about BG3. Maybe you don't know (could it be possible?), but I have a blog. And on that blog are no fewer than six recent write-ups on BG3 (despite the fact that almost nothing is known about the game.)

Within those six write-ups, I'm pretty sure you'll find your answer.

As I am currently unemployed and lacking any meaningful hobbies and activities, I did indeed find the time to read your six blog entries!

For others, xer opinion is that BG3 will be shit. I agree.

 

[Absinthe]

Question boils down to "Why are studios not all that creative ?"
Answer is the market doesn't reward creativity that well (or rather, not that consistently).

The market does. But market research and focus testing does not. The problem is that when you innovate, you are going to defy existing market models, but in order to gauge profitability, existing market models will be used anyway, so your game often looks like it's going to underperform and then the higher-ups tell you to fuck it off and create a sure-fire moneymaker (ie. something derivative that performs worse than marketing projected because people don't like lazy knockoffs). And to be fair, a lot of innovation does fail, because it is done by mediocre hacks who think they're doing something special when they're not.

 

[glass blackbird]

Don't the Divinity: Original Sin games have stuff like this? Talking to ghosts and animals etc.

Also Nano mind reading in Torment: Tides of Numenera.

DOS2 does have talking to ghosts, and most of them are missable since you have to use a skill, but the skill itself is a mandatory part of plot progression. So it's really just more NPCs in the world that some people might not think to talk to.

Talking to animals IS completely optional in both 1 and 2 since you have to choose to take that skill and never have to do it, but it's a base-level talent so again it's pretty accessible compared to something like giving charmed NPCs dialog where the majority of people would never think to try it.

In some ways it's clever since it makes the player think they're doing something secret or getting benefit from choices, but actually it's not much of a secret since anyone can pretty easily do it. It's a conjuring trick, like how Pillars of Eternity always puts marks in dialog when it's based on your choices--even if in reality all that changes is someone mentions what class you picked and nothing else changes. It's probably smart: go ahead and be reactive, but point it out so nobody can possibly miss that it's happening and fail to give you credit for it.

 

[Tigranes]

Also goes back to mindreading in Divinity 2. But whether it's spirit-reading in POE or whatever other schtick, I don't really find it to be particularly worthwhile. Rarely does it give you the kind of dialogue experience you would not have anyway.

What NPC interactions need is not necessarily a new mechanism, but a new way of writing NPCs and their responses in a way that they are designed as people with their own motivations and interests, not just quest / lore dispensers, and that player response requires paying attention to those motivations. In other words, AOD.

 

[infidel]

> What's the reason that alternative forms of obtaining information from NPCs is so underutilized?

Mainly because whenever someone comes up with a brilliant idea (like the ones that you and others have mentioned), someone else needs to go through the whole game and implement it everywhere. Which is rarely feasible because of budget and deadline constraints unless this idea was locked onto in the original discussion and is already budgeted. The older games have more of that because the management was shittier in that era and because the implementation cost was drastically lower. Wide-eyed Garriott would come from his daily meditation sessions and shout "Guys, I have the greatest IDEA! What if there was a CUBE that would make an NPC always tell the TRUTH?!" and everybody would sigh and groan and start working on it. In the modern era this approach usually leads to the shining gems like Star Citizen, Shroud of the Avatar, Godus, you name it.

 

[CappenVarra]

well, i guess it's never too late to learn something new

"Hush, little baby, don't say a word. Nimbul's going to show you the big... black... bird"

best part is he breaks the charm after dialogue and proceeds with the assassination

 

[Dodo1610]

Great, I have just finished Bg1 and now I learn of this.
I have just checked this isn't even mentioned in Baldurs Gate's description of the charm spell. So why hide such a feature?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You don't even need to charm her. However, in the original version of the game she calls him "Jon Icarus".

Like many characters in the Baldur's Gate games, Jon Irenicus is based on a character from James Ohlen's AD&D tabletop adventures. This is an earlier reference to that same character.

FYI: Her dialogue was updated to refer to Jon Irenicus in a later patch. Not sure which one, but it definitely wasn't a Beamdog addition. You can find a 2003 thread on sorcerers.net referring to it:
https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/the-fates-of-bg1-companions-in-bg2-slight-spoilers.4332/

In the original BG release, the name used was Jon Icarus. If you have The Original Saga (the later 3CD set) the name is changed to Jon Irenicus.