What's the reason that alternative forms of obtaining information from NPCs is so underutilized?

[Infinitron]

FYI: Her dialogue was updated to refer to Jon Irenicus in a later patch. Not sure which one, but it definitely wasn't a Beamdog addition. You can find a 2003 thread on sorcerers.net referring to it:
https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/the-fates-of-bg1-companions-in-bg2-slight-spoilers.4332/

In the original BG release, the name used was Jon Icarus. If you have The Original Saga (the later 3CD set) the name is changed to Jon Irenicus.

I doubt that's true. That guy was probably just playing with the old Baldurdash patch, which also changed it to Irenicus.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I doubt that's true. That guy was probably just playing with the old Baldurdash patch, which also changed it to Irenicus.

If I can't trust random forum posts from 2003, then who can I trust?

 

[Darth Canoli]

- We come to benefit from your immense wisdom.
- What is it you wanna know ?
- What is your name ?

It's Baldur's Gate, what did you expect ?

SPOILERS : it gets even more retarded in the sequel.

First playthrough - nobody needs mods.

Mods are there to add replayability. A lot of people replay these games 4-8 times. It's nice to mix things up, so mods are a good way to do that. First time - no, just no.

Let's agree to disagree.
There's a handful of amazing games which doesn't need mods (even if after 10+ years they do just to run on new computers) and there's all the other games.
Quality of life mods are required to remotely enjoy 75% of the modern games.

Of course, you're right about the mods that add or replace content.

 

[sullynathan]

• Mind Reading in Divinity 2. Costs XP to use to offset such a powerful ability.

Playing through the game now. This sounds like a big deal but it isn't. You can usually get about the same amount of xp for reading a person's mind by killing 2 - 3 enemies, combine that by increasing the mind reading skill which reduces how much xp you spend, how certain items do not spawn into the world unless you've read a characters mind beforehand. and it is barely an issue and is something you're better off doing every single time. Even the characters that recognize you reading their mind have no negative consequences for your character only praises and powerups.

 

[J1M]

Spending your word budget on stuff most people aren't even going to read.

Would be an improvement for something like Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Crispy]

While not exactly talking to NPCs, using Contact Other Plane in IWD can reveal some interesting and sometimes useful information not normally available to the party.

Most people don't realize whom you're talking to when using the spell: in Trials of the Luremaster, at least, it's actually Cespenar the crafting imp from Throne of Bhaal. You can tell from his manner of speaking and use of certain phrases that it's him you're contacting. It's p. funny.

What's amazing is that ToB was released only about a month before IWD/TotLM was.

Edit: I'll give one specific example (spoilers ahead):

This is in the base Heart of Winter expansion, not TotLM. There's a certain set of armor you can find which is clearly unusual and evil in nature. If you don it, it takes over the character and kills him, irrevocably, then instantly transforms itself into its native form of a demon. That character is lost forever, by the way.

It turns out that if you had used Contact Other Plane before having donned the armor, you can learn the true name of said demon. If you're quick enough to talk to it, you can force it to submit to your will and use the armor as you see fit without the demon destroying that character.

It's a p. brilliant utilization of that spell.

 

[RNGsus]

My first response is the way npcs are handled as story tools or "quest" givers, instead of actual characters. So people with strengths and weaknesses you might play off.

 

[Viata]

Makes you wonder who the hell their focus group is. Reminds me of that time a play tester for Dishonored was told by an NPC that he cannot go to the second floor (which is where the objective is), so he didn't go there and just bumbled about, not knowing how to proceed

I'd never not find this stupid.
https://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-clues-hints/

Arkane: Dishonored play testers "didn't know what to do," needed more hints
By Omri Petitte September 21, 2012

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Dishonored empowers would-be assassins with multiple angles of attack, but apparently some choices present themselves a bit more strongly than others: a Games On Net interview reveals developer Arkane plugged in a few more hints after players lost direction.

"People would just walk around during playtesting of the 'Lady Boyle' mission," Dishonored executive producer Julien Roby said. "They didn't know what to do. They didn't even go upstairs because a guard told them they couldn't. They'd say, 'Okay, I can't go upstairs.' They wouldn't do anything."

Roby explained that a few clues now nudge Corvo along his noble mission of sinking his dagger into his target, saying, "We try not to lead the player by the nose, but at some point we found that if we don't give a little information, people just get lost and don't know what to do. It's just overwhelming. So we tried to add this element that gave just a hint to help a little. But we try to do it as little as possible."

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Makes you wonder who the hell their focus group is. Reminds me of that time a play tester for Dishonored was told by an NPC that he cannot go to the second floor (which is where the objective is), so he didn't go there and just bumbled about, not knowing how to proceed

I'd never not find this stupid.
https://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-clues-hints/

Arkane: Dishonored play testers "didn't know what to do," needed more hints
By Omri Petitte September 21, 2012

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• Comments

Dishonored empowers would-be assassins with multiple angles of attack, but apparently some choices present themselves a bit more strongly than others: a Games On Net interview reveals developer Arkane plugged in a few more hints after players lost direction.

"People would just walk around during playtesting of the 'Lady Boyle' mission," Dishonored executive producer Julien Roby said. "They didn't know what to do. They didn't even go upstairs because a guard told them they couldn't. They'd say, 'Okay, I can't go upstairs.' They wouldn't do anything."

Roby explained that a few clues now nudge Corvo along his noble mission of sinking his dagger into his target, saying, "We try not to lead the player by the nose, but at some point we found that if we don't give a little information, people just get lost and don't know what to do. It's just overwhelming. So we tried to add this element that gave just a hint to help a little. But we try to do it as little as possible."

 

[The_Mask]

In Dark Souls, you can use Undead Rapport on the Male Undead Merchant. He helps you a bit, and completely forgets about his Yulia and everything, and uses his katana. But no unique dialogue or anything like that.

Not wanting to state the same games as anyone posting here previously, I am struggling to see this mechanic used often at all. A shame.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The commentaries are actually pretty good/insightful btw (helpful to remember this was released in 2004 and a lot of "duh" things weren't ironed out yet)

 

[Viata]

In a maze, always walk with your right hand touching the right side of the wall. Works every time.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

In a maze, always walk with your right hand touching the right side of the wall. Works every time.

it's the left-hand rule you monster

 

[Viata]

In a maze, always walk with your right hand touching the right side of the wall. Works every time.

it's the left-hand rule you monster

Both work and as a right-handed person, I will go for what works for me.

 

[J1M]

In a maze, always walk with your right hand touching the right side of the wall. Works every time.

it's the left-hand rule you monster

Both work and as a right-handed person, I will go for what works for me.

Should probably save that right hand for your weapon then.

 

[Siveon]

So I guess its less "left hand rule" and more "non dominant hand rule."

And if you're ambidextrous, well fuck you, you filthy centrist.

 

[thesecret1]

In a maze, always walk with your right hand touching the right side of the wall. Works every time.

I think that was probably what really went through the tester's mind. It's a very handy rule for most mazes... except ones featuring "islands", as this guy found out.

 

[Viata]

Which means he didn't follow the rule. The "island" inside the maze is a loop, it's not connected to the rest of the maze(otherwise he wouldn't be locked on it forever). So to get into that "island", he needed to pass a part between the connected maze and the "island" without touching the wall. Unless the loop goes outside the maze(left or right side of the maze), but in that case, he should be quite dumb to not realize that he is back to the beginning of the dungeon, since he ends up before the entrance of the maze every loop.

 

[CryptRat]

In SWAT you can torture the enemies after defeating them without killing them to get information, although' they can die in the process. I stopped quite early but I think the game is pretty bad, RPG elements especially seemed to be very limited.

 

[MuffinBun]

rusty_shackleford is there a thread for discussing the examples of this kind of broad design philosophy in which the player is able to influence the game world through utilizing game mechanics, out of their own initiative, as opposed to making a choice via the dialogue system? Those charm interactions are a part of this, and I know its your thing.

 

[Darth Canoli]

In Dungeon Keeper, you can torture adventurer and enemy creatures, sometimes, they reveal some uncharted part of the map they walked through and they can even join you.

One of the best feature of Dungeon Keeper, along with being able to slap and kill your own minions, some even like it (dark mistresses) and some would get into a berzerking rage if you dared touch them (Horned Reaper), well, this one could snap for multiple reason, can't reach the treasure room to get paid (or it's too far), get annoyed by an imp just passing by or doing its job, get hungry, don't have enough room to sleep, and so on.

Good thing was, you could always drop him on top of an adventurer's group and he would kill them in no time, up until he decided he had enough and left.