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Which 1st-person RPGs (blobbers, etc) had the best fake-3D art?

Alchemist

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Regarding "Anvil of Dawn": how is this a blobber? It's only a 1-man-party.
Yeah I should have said 1st-person RPGs in the OP because really the thread is about the fake-3D art style and visual implementation, the party or game structure doesn't matter. It just happens that blobbers were the predominant genre that utilized this.
 

:Flash:

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Yeah if I did go with fake-3D I wouldn't have turning animations at all. It just looks awkward in every implementation I've seen for it.
Anvil of Dawn is the exception here. I have no idea how they did it, but the turning animations have a correct perspective, as if it was a real 3d engine, yet much crisper than what the 3D engines of the time were able to achieve.

Of all the graphics in Realms of Arkania the 3D-graphics were probably one of the weaker parts - though still pretty good:

Realms_of_Arkania_-_Star_Trail-1.jpg

Star Trail is not fake 3d, that's a real 3d engine. Step-by-step motion can be turned off, although free movement is hilarious, because you lean into curves as if you were on a motorcycle.
 

Alchemist

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Anvil of Dawn is the exception here. I have no idea how they did it, but the turning animations have a correct perspective, as if it was a real 3d engine, yet much crisper than what the 3D engines of the time were able to achieve.
From looking at Anvil of Dawn footage - I think they pre-rendered their environment elements in a 3D modeling program - which were then exported to sprite images. That's how they could achieve smooth transitions, because each angle was rendered out in 3D.
 

V_K

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Also, Elvira and Waxworks games look quite nice.
86004-ElviraMistressOfTheDark.jpg


elvira2-amiga-3-full.png


fullsize


Evil-waxworks.png



sddefault.jpg


elvira-2-full.png


The trick is, of course, that there's no raycasting and each frame is a separate hand-drawn adventure-style background.
 

JarlFrank

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Waxworks has wonderful illustrations of death and mutilation.

Waxworks_4.png

Waxworks_6.png

4uZLM.png

3-waxworks4.jpg


The actual dungeon graphics are nothing special, but they're atmopsheric enough.

Waxworks_DOS_16.png
 

Alchemist

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Updated thread title and OP to be more inclusive of single-character games. :)
 

:Flash:

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From looking at Anvil of Dawn footage - I think they pre-rendered their environment elements in a 3D modeling program - which were then exported to sprite images. That's how they could achieve smooth transitions, because each angle was rendered out in 3D.
I had thought about that possibility but rendering all the images for smooth 360° animations for every single square in the game just seemed too much. But then it was CD-Rom time, so that's possibly what they did.
 

Alchemist

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I had thought about that possibility but rendering all the images for smooth 360° animations for every single square in the game just seemed too much. But then it was CD-Rom time, so that's possibly what they did.
Probably not every square in the game. For each tileset they would only need to render a stock set of wall rotations and overlay them as needed according to the current position and layout. I haven't played the game extensively though so I'd have to analyse it a bit more to be sure. From the look of the walls themselves they definitely look like pre-rendered 3D models.
 
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Star Trail is not fake 3d, that's a real 3d engine. Step-by-step motion can be turned off, although free movement is hilarious, because you lean into curves as if you were on a motorcycle.

https://youtu.be/ntLuK6KyaGQ?t=1m38s

Holy shit it really looks like motorcycle riding. I don't get motion sick at all but I can almost imagine getting sick if playing this walk stepwise off.
 

Melan

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For all its beauty, Lands of Lore was a major decline:

- You had to choose from one of four pre-made characters
- Only 2 NPC's can join the party, so a total of just three characters in the party
The reviews of the time called out Lands of Lore for dumbing down CRPGs. They were worried that the lack of tactical depth, the mechanical streamlining, the absence of character-building, the cliché story and the utter simplicity of the puzzles would bring :decline: to following games. While they noted that the graphics were top-notch, it didn't get high marks in the local press.

(Little did they know that it would be something entirely different, the flood of poor Doom clones and primitive "interactive movies" that would bring an end to the early 90s era of gaming.)
 

V_K

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https://youtu.be/ntLuK6KyaGQ?t=1m38s

Holy shit it really looks like motorcycle riding. I don't get motion sick at all but I can almost imagine getting sick if playing this walk stepwise off.
They probably stole borrowed some code from some racing sim, can't imagine any other reason the camera would behave like that.
On a marginally related note, I don't remember if it was in RoA2 already, but in RoA3 getting your characters drunk had a hillarious side effect.
 

mondblut

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They probably stole borrowed some code from some racing sim, can't imagine any other reason the camera would behave like that.

Immershun!

Srsly, did anyone play Star Trail with disabled grid? Considering all triggers and shit are grid-based, this is, like, begging for trouble.

Then again, I vaguely remember some chest at the swamp which could only be reached in gridless mode...

On a marginally related note, I don't remember if it was in RoA2 already, but in RoA3 getting your characters drunk had a hillarious side effect.

ROA1 was aware if the party is walking around with no pants. Hilarity ensued.

Why don't they make games like that anymore?
 

CryptRat

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ROA1 was aware if the party is walking around with no pants. Hilarity ensued.
I don't know if it is already in ROA1. My imported party was hit by the town people in the first town in ROA2 because one of them have no pants. That is one of the screenshots I am going to post when I finish the game.
 

octavius

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The reviews of the time called out Lands of Lore for dumbing down CRPGs. They were worried that the lack of tactical depth, the mechanical streamlining, the absence of character-building, the cliché story and the utter simplicity of the puzzles would bring :decline: to following games. While they noted that the graphics were top-notch, it didn't get high marks in the local press.

(Little did they know that it would be something entirely different, the flood of poor Doom clones and primitive "interactive movies" that would bring an end to the early 90s era of gaming.)

I think LoL was one of the better RT blobbers; not as good as Black Crypt, but better than Eye of the Beholder.
Anvil of Dawn was the ultime dumbing down of the real time blobber genre; you didn't even control a party any longer.
I think AoD was also the last RT blobber before Grimrock.
 

V_K

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That's bullshit, sorry. LoL barely has a character system and its 'puzzles' are a joke. AoD is miles better in that department.
1 character vs party doesn't matter much. Event Horizon/Dreamforge made a few excellent single-character DM clones before AoD, like The Summoning and Darkspire, and no one complained they were dumbing down anything. With AoD they just shifted from top-down/isometric to FP.

Also, Stonekeep came out slightly later and there's the obscure Amiga game Evil's Doom, that was supposed to come out in 1996, but never made it and was later released as freeware.
 
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DraQ

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Why not go full 3D, but with fixed grid step and billboarded 2D objects? You can get the same look and feel of old school dungeon crawlers but with the benefit of 3D level building.
If you already use discrete positioning and rotation the difference between real and faked 3D is purely academic.
A lot of blobbers already had as much 3D level building as possible with fixed step without using any actual 3D.

To reap the benefits of full 3D you need to abandon the trappings of an oldschool blobber, even if still making one - see Wizardry 8.
 
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If you already use discrete positioning and rotation the difference between real and faked 3D is purely academic.
A lot of blobbers already had as much 3D level building as possible with fixed step without using any actual 3D.

To reap the benefits of full 3D you need to abandon the trappings of an oldschool blobber, even if still making one - see Wizardry 8.
I mean mainly development benefits. Most pratical game editors nowadays are meant for 3D scenes, and the ones meant for 2D are for platformers/topdown games. Granted hacking his own fake 3D approach is probably more fun if he's into that sort of thinng
 

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