4X Which 4x game has the best unit customisation/design and why?

[Destroid]

Or which is your favourite.

 

[Sergiu64]

Rance of course. I like when the units get customized by suddenly being naked.

 

[hoverdog]

SMAC
/thread

Elemental has a great deal of unit customization, but the end all this customizing isn't worth shit as the factions are roughly the same and you'll get bored with outfitting after about ten minutes. Oh, and the whole game sucks ass.

Honestly, I prefer games that throw away customization in favor of preset units, but make those units interesting and unique for each faction. Master of Magic (though it still featured the same 'base' for units) had a lot of fun stuff, from Slingers (absurdly powerful when sufficiently boosted) to Paladins (magic immune!) and Warlocks (irresistible Doom Bolts coming right up).

 

[Malakal]

MoO2 of course, not only you had a huge variety of weapons and weapon mods but also a lot of utility systems. And then you could use your black hole generator equipped blinking ships in turn based tactical battles. What else do you need?

 

[KoolNoodles]

Gonna have to go with MOO2, both because the customization was awesome, and because it was the first game I played that really gave that much freedom. Even more than the character customization freedom I was used to from RPGs.

More recently I've really enjoyed Distant Worlds: Universe, but it's in the same group as MOO2 as far as that is concerned.

 

[Raghar]

Cave wars?

Tanks vs vampires vs riders on raptors with RPGs.

 

[TigerKnee]

I used to like unit customization as a gameplay feature but for some reason nowadays it feels like there's really mostly only a few valid design choices that's actually competitive and the rest is just "well, I'll set the game difficulty lower this time and just fuck around for fun" builds.

I rather have interesting pre-set unique units with their own special abilities.

 

[Destroid]

MoO2 is a strong choice, but I think the ship design actually works a little better in MoO1 - mostly because as the game progresses small ships are still valid, and you don't always pile on the biggest shield and computer by default. MoO2 has a much better selection of a special systems though and the weapon mods are very cool, especially when they allow older tech items to retain usefulness or fill a niche.

I think the design in these games pairs well with the tech system, since the techs you have available varies an awful lot, set units wouldn't work very well.

 

[Eyeball]

Cave wars?

Tanks vs vampires vs riders on raptors with RPGs.

Ding ding ding winnar.

Cavewars is disgustingly overlooked in 4X discussions when the strength of its somewhat comical unit customisation options alone make it well worth playing. Depending on your resources and degree of tech research, you could kit your soldiers out however you felt like it. Personally, I was fairly sold on fielding an army of elves (good ranged combat) riding giant lizards while wearing bronze breastplates and wielding mithrill bazookas.

The summons were good too for the whole game - cheap to summon and kicked a lot of ass, my personal favourite being the giant leech. Nearly impossible to kill, tanked for your whole army while your ratmen with sniper rifles won the battle from the back lines.

 

[Destroid]

I thought cave wars was an RTS?

 

[Eyeball]

Nope, turn-based 4X. There is permawar, so no diplomacy, but exploration, mining and magic add a lot to the game.

 

[DakaSha]

Cavewars is def overlooked.

 

[Dim]

Its really ugly. The moos look much better.

Stardrive is all about designing ships with each component's physical placement determining what gets damaged from each shot. Weak in every other X though.

 

[pakoito]

Dominions 4, customize your units with a great set of diseases and crippling injuries on top of full armory and enchantments.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

In MOO2 I build destroyers with battlepods and 2x MIRV+heavy armor+fast nuclear missiles and kite so they don't get hit. 1 destroyer takes out a battleship, 3-4 destroyers take out a starbase without losses.

I think I once heard on the internet you can kill the Orion Guardian with enough MIRV ships. Death of a thousand nukes!

 

[Destroid]

Dominions 4, customize your units with a great set of diseases and crippling injuries on top of full armory and enchantments.

I didn't find the Dom4 customisation very good at all, the lack of control in battles really limited its value.

 

[thesheeep]

I didn't find the Dom4 customisation very good at all, the lack of control in battles really limited its value.

Yes, definitely the biggest flaw of the series. The limited commands you can give are pretty much worthless, all that matters is army composition and spells.
But then again, imagine how long a game of Dominions would take if there was Total War like combat. I want to finish a game within one decade.

 

[KoolNoodles]

I didn't find the Dom4 customisation very good at all, the lack of control in battles really limited its value.

Yes, definitely the biggest flaw of the series. The limited commands you can give are pretty much worthless, all that matters is army composition and spells.
But then again, imagine how long a game of Dominions would take if there was Total War like combat. I want to finish a game within one decade.

Hmm, not sure I agree here. It's just a different take on "gameplay". Dominions is all about the build up, as opposed to controlling every last detail once the confrontation starts. Even then, mages can be scripted to cast five spells, which is usually enough to decide what you want them to do in battle. After that it's just flinging damage spells, just like a knight swinging a mace.

With the new scripts and formations, you can control plenty. Line/loose formation for your arrow catchers, box formation to clog up cavalry/attack rear types, your own "attack rear" formation to flank, unless they are flyers then they paradrop. Hold commands couple with instant attack and space can create some devious strategies. Couple that with all the preparation before battle(research, item construction, unit construction/summoning/scripted spells), and there is a ton of control and customization(just a different animal).

I liken it to the grand World War strategy games where you can plan your OOB, strategy, supply etc., but in the end when the battles start, anything can happen(within reason). Oftentimes planning will save your butt, but sometimes it doesn't.

 

[thesheeep]

With the new scripts and formations, you can control plenty. Line/loose formation for your arrow catchers, box formation to clog up cavalry/attack rear types, your own "attack rear" formation to flank, unless they are flyers then they paradrop. Hold commands couple with instant attack and space can create some devious strategies. Couple that with all the preparation before battle(research, item construction, unit construction/summoning/scripted spells), and there is a ton of control and customization(just a different animal).

I know all that. I just found that it does not matter at all. Unit composition and some basic placement/formation stuff is all that counts.
A better army will always win, no matter what you do beforehand.
Plus, I find all those settings pretty tedious. The interface is not exactly meant to decrease the number of required clicks. And when you have to do it for a dozen or so armies later in the game, it just becomes a chore. Add to that that you have to even micro the gem supply of each single freakin' mage. If it were not for the really interesting lore and the sheer number of races/ages with any possibility to LARP, I would never play this game.
Maybe there are people enjoying all this stuff that is a chore for me. But I really wish there was a game which is a mixture between Dominions and Total War. Less armies, better control.

 

[Dim]

Smaller maps maybe? I know I usually set my 4x games to the smallest maps possible.
C-evo does the same thing as alpha centauri though not quite as well.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

One of the big problems I have with unit customisation is future creep.

 

[garfield666]

i have to put my vote on stardrive. all in all a dissappointing game, but this one thing got right. you place components in specific places on your hull, so things like where do you put your armor actually matters. iirc you could set firing arcs for most guns, so it was possible to do a 'line of battle' tactics if you wanted, lots of fun in general.

 

[Destroid]

One of the big problems I have with unit customisation is future creep.

Can you elaborate on this point? Provide an example?

 

[Curious_Tongue]

I don't feel like building a huge fleet of ships with class 2 shields when class 3 shields are on their way to being researched. And when you finally do research class 3, you can see other technologies in the pipeline you would like to have implemented in your fleet.

 

[KoolNoodles]

*snip*

Yeah I hear what you're saying. You can assign hotkeys to often used scripts though. If you set it up(which takes a while the first time, yes), then subsequent scripting of armies should only take a minute.

Total War + Dominions would be amazing though. Don't think we'll be seeing anything like that for a very long time though. Strategic/lore/spell etc. depth plus complex and good tactical combat.