Which CRPG that doesn't use D&D rules has the deepest character building?

[luj1]

Is it a crawler like Wizardry? Isometric such as Underrail? Or some roguelike?

 

[Sweeper]

Grimoire, Underrail, Tales of Maj'Eyal.

 

[luj1]

Grimoire

Not that deep or complex. Agree about the other too.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, with its mastery boards of skills/augments on top of class differentiation:

 

[Sweeper]

Grimoire

Not that deep or complex. Agree about the other too.

It's more about the fact that you can have 8 party members, so party composition becomes an added layer.
Zed Duke of Banville Aside from the fact that it's weebshit, and therefor irredeemable garbage, I particularly like how they've got the star of David for the magic icons.
Should have called it Kabbalah magic theory.

 

[Abu Antar]

I like the Dark Eye Ruleset.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Isometric such as Underrail?

I've always like the Fallout system and the spin offs of that system, Wasteland 2 and Wasteland 3. There's other notables like SSI's Buck Rogers games, Underrail, and so on as well. Character systems for games, typically isometric, in settings that don't have magic spells. When you first load up those games, there's so many things that it can be overwhelming at first but then you have to consider that we're talking about systems in worlds without magic, so all you have is skills. There is no Knock spell like D&D has, so you're stuck with Lockpicking. There's no Cure Light Wounds, so you have First Aid. There's no Fireball, so you have Throwing and grenades. Pretty much everything you can ever do will be right there from the start, but you'll suck at them until you develop those skills further.

 

[NecroLord]

Arcanum.
I don't know whether or not it is complex enough, but there are so many possibilities in character building and so much fun to be had...

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

Arcanum.
I don't know whether or not it is complex enough, but there are so many possibilities in character building and so much fun to be had...

Arcanum is the perfect sweet spot, tons of different build options without being too needlessly complex.

 

[Cryomancer]

Dungeon Lords has guilds and classes only for certain genres, 7 races, 5 basic classes which can be promoted into 15 different classes and then into 14 classes, attributes, skills, tier based magical progression and 4 magical schools(arcane, celestial, nether and rune). Just trying to post the most "underrated" example that I know. Not comparing it with other games.

 

[Gregz]

I don't particularly care for this game, but Path of Exile has some extremely complicated character mechanics.

 

[Nortar]

Pathfinder is technicaly not D&D.
But as Abu Antar has already said DSA is pretty complex,
and so are the games using it - Drakensang 1 and 2, Blackguards and, of course, the most recommended game on the Codex - Realms of Arkania HD.

 

[baba is you]

I remember Daggerfall among the Elder Scrolls series as having good character builds.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Yes, Daggerfall might have the best character customization for any single-character RPG:

 

[Damned Registrations]

Path of Achra has a surprising amount of both depth and variety for what is supposed to be a cofeebreak roguelike. I suppose that's what happens when you make the character building 95% of the gameplay. Rift Wizard and it's sequel are arguably in this category as well.

I have to throw my vote at Troubleshooter as well though. It's not clear from those screenshots, but more than half of those listed abilities are incredibly complex and impactful. Sure, some stuff is just +30% to a stat or whatever, but lots of it is absolutely bananas stuff, like 'You become immortal for 1 turn every time you kill 3 people with a single attack' or 'Your character now functions as hard cover for allies' or 'Your turns take twice as long, but occur more quickly whenever you take damage' or 'Your counterattacks are now preemptive'... there are dozens of abilities like that in the game, often generated by combining other lesser, but still impactful abilities together. It really is a builder's paradise.

I'd also throw Siralim series in the running. Individual monsters and the master are both complex in their own right, but when you consider the synergies between everything (which is the entire point) it becomes utter insanity. When you've created a team that instantly kills everything you encounter before you've even entered a command due to passive interactions, you've just barely scratched the surface and have another 90% of the game to burrow through. And you'll need to if you want to do the most difficult stuff, which starts cancelling out parts of your build, forcing you to make multiple redundant networks of broken synergies within a single team to handle all the variety that gets thrown back at you. I haven't played the most recent entry nearly enough, not for lack of interest but because I know it'd eat all my free time for months once I really got into it.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Amazing Cultivation Simulator.

 

[luj1]

Path of Achra has a surprising amount of both depth and variety for what is supposed to be a cofeebreak roguelike. I suppose that's what happens when you make the character building 95% of the gameplay. Rift Wizard and it's sequel are arguably in this category as well.

The world needs more of Path of Achra

Very cool art vibe too

 

[Hagashager]

Yes, Daggerfall might have the best character customization for any single-character RPG:

Daggerfall's character customization is really neat. The downside is almost half of all skills are borderline useless.

 

[NecroLord]

Yes, Daggerfall might have the best character customization for any single-character RPG:

Daggerfall's character customization is really neat. The downside is almost half of all skills are borderline useless.

The language skills require some training and can be boosted by enchanting items.
Can help you to pacify the respective monsters if you pass a language skill check.
Yeah, Daggerfall had great character customization.

 

[Kabas]

Daggerfall system is kinda neat on paper but undercooked in practice.
The only viable character type appears to be a battle mage variant unless you really want to larp as a barbarian or something. But maybe it's just me.

 

[AshenNedra]

Path of Achra has a surprising amount of both depth and variety for what is supposed to be a cofeebreak roguelike. I suppose that's what happens when you make the character building 95% of the gameplay. Rift Wizard and it's sequel are arguably in this category as well.

I have to throw my vote at Troubleshooter as well though. It's not clear from those screenshots, but more than half of those listed abilities are incredibly complex and impactful. Sure, some stuff is just +30% to a stat or whatever, but lots of it is absolutely bananas stuff, like 'You become immortal for 1 turn every time you kill 3 people with a single attack' or 'Your character now functions as hard cover for allies' or 'Your turns take twice as long, but occur more quickly whenever you take damage' or 'Your counterattacks are now preemptive'... there are dozens of abilities like that in the game, often generated by combining other lesser, but still impactful abilities together. It really is a builder's paradise.

I'd also throw Siralim series in the running. Individual monsters and the master are both complex in their own right, but when you consider the synergies between everything (which is the entire point) it becomes utter insanity. When you've created a team that instantly kills everything you encounter before you've even entered a command due to passive interactions, you've just barely scratched the surface and have another 90% of the game to burrow through. And you'll need to if you want to do the most difficult stuff, which starts cancelling out parts of your build, forcing you to make multiple redundant networks of broken synergies within a single team to handle all the variety that gets thrown back at you. I haven't played the most recent entry nearly enough, not for lack of interest but because I know it'd eat all my free time for months once I really got into it.

Troubleshooter is the only game, that I know of, which may have too many mechanics.

I had +100 hours when I stopped playing, and I hadn't even touched some of them, like the pets.

The only issue of the game was the translation, which was very poor. Amazing game otherwise.

And the devs kept adding more stuff with each update, practically every two weeks. They were so adorable and friendly, also, in an endearing apologetic Asian way.

Did they ever make another game, by the way?

 

[Miner 2049er]

Wizards & Warriors. I don't know if it has the deepest character building, but it's pretty deep with its guild hopping, elite and special classes, skills and traits combined with a progression system that lets you get better with weapons and spells the more you use them.

https://www.gamebanshee.com/wizardswarriors/

 

[NecroLord]

Daggerfall system is kinda neat on paper but undercooked in practice.
The only viable character type appears to be a battle mage variant unless you really want to larp as a barbarian or something. But maybe it's just me.

Yeah.
You really need that protection against magic, namely protection from fire, shock, paralysis and drain health spells...

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

a tidbit
in daggerfall, high elves have immunity to paralysis. you can make a custom class with weakness to paralysis, and gain a lot of advantage this way, because the racial bonus will overwrite the class penalties, effectively making it so you get a very obvious advantage for your build.

 

[cretin]

I don't particularly care for this game, but Path of Exile has some extremely complicated character mechanics.

This could be true, I don't know, but I don't think it matters when the end result is me watching my friend clear maps from top to bottom pressing '1' over and over as he spins around like a gay tornado