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Which Oblivion Dev Lied The Most?

stargelman

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Jan 21, 2006
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Funky Bebop Land
OccupatedVoid said:
Sovy Kurosei said:
summer said:
Do not make threads concerning other members. Much less use an auto censor bypass in the topic title. :)

The topic is... said:
The Official Fan-boy Awards, get out and vote!

Unless the topic change I can't spot what should have been censored. Can you?

fanboy is censored and replaced with 'a devoted elderscrolls fan'.
Curiously, 'morrowhiner' isn't censored. I asked about that and basically got a response equalling a shrug.
 

sabishii

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Well, part of the reason I got Oblivion was because of the Radiant AI. Not that I thought it would be very intelligent or anything; I didn't expect that much out of it, especially since it was a bit after release, when some testimonials had come out on this forum. But I did want to play it to see the "wacky" stuff that happens between NPCs like NPCs killing each other and such. This is a sandbox game - am I not supposed to see actual random and unexpected events to happen that I have to react to?
 

suibhne

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Sandbox games still have rules. Imperial woodsmen murdering other Imperial woodsmen without any consequences whatsoever - that makes no sense. Imperial soldiers pursuing and attacking the Imperial heir (for theft!) while he's accompanied by the head of The Blades - that makes no fucking sense at all, in any definition of the word "sense".

Playing the game just to watch that crazy shit is fine. Thinking that crazy shit makes sense, or is good game design...that's a different matter entirely. :wink:
 

psycojester

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suibhne we've already established that these examples of what seem to be poor AI are in fact the symptoms of the deep and complex political intrigue in the province
 

suibhne

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Dammit, I'm so used to fast-paced Diablo clones that I always forget about the depth and complexity of Tamriel and its lore. But who has time for all that reading, anyway? :oops:
 

sabishii

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suibhne said:
Sandbox games still have rules. Imperial woodsmen murdering other Imperial woodsmen without any consequences whatsoever - that makes no sense. Imperial soldiers pursuing and attacking the Imperial heir (for theft!) while he's accompanied by the head of The Blades - that makes no fucking sense at all, in any definition of the word "sense".

Playing the game just to watch that crazy shit is fine. Thinking that crazy shit makes sense, or is good game design...that's a different matter entirely. :wink:
It's better than a game where nothing unexpected happens at all, where the only interesting things that happen in a ENTIRE NATION are things that only YOU do or initiate.
 

suibhne

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sabishii said:
It's better than a game where nothing unexpected happens at all, where the only interesting things that happen in a ENTIRE NATION are things that only YOU do or initiate.

The choice between mind-numbingly stupid and mind-numbingly boring is really no choice at all.
 

sabishii

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suibhne said:
sabishii said:
It's better than a game where nothing unexpected happens at all, where the only interesting things that happen in a ENTIRE NATION are things that only YOU do or initiate.

The choice between mind-numbingly stupid and mind-numbingly boring is really no choice at all.
One choice is mind-numbingly boring, but the other isn't mind-numbingly stupid. Stupid to a degree? Yes. But stupid to a degree still holds an entertainment value whereas boring to any degree has no value at all.
 

suibhne

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Well, all I can say is that, in Oblivion, the two examples I posted - Imperial soldiers mindless killing each other in broad daylight; and an Imperial Legionnaire chasing and trying to kill Martin, the heir to the Empire, even when he was escorted by the head of the Order of the Blades - struck me as quite a bit worse than "stupid to a degree". :lol:
 

sabishii

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suibhne said:
Well, all I can say is that, in Oblivion, the two examples I posted - Imperial soldiers mindless killing each other in broad daylight; and an Imperial Legionnaire chasing and trying to kill Martin, the heir to the Empire, even when he was escorted by the head of the Order of the Blades - struck me as quite a bit worse than "stupid to a degree". :lol:
Yes, that is still "stupid to a degree." "Very stupid" counts as "stupid to a degree." However, it is not "mind-numbingly stupid" because it's still 100x better than "mind-numbingly boring." I'd rather play a game where, yes, your examples do happen, rather than the worthless "sandbox" game it is now.

If you think your examples are stupid, then tell me how smart these are: The guards stand around only to attack *you*. There's a thieves guild but none of the thieves steal anything. The only interactions between NPCs is friendly small talk; nobody ever gets angry at each other and fights. NPCs never have any significant dialogue unless *you* initiate conversation with them.
 

cutterjohn

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I consider Oblivion to be a great triumph ... as a tech demo/infomercial of Havok, facegen, speedtree, net immerse engine, whatever the hell it was they used for terrain erosion effects, overhype of a pathetic set of scripts pawned off as AI, and destroying egos CPUs and GPUs everywhere. As a RPG I consider it to be a complete and total failure. (i.e. the game itself feels like an afterthought to playing with their new toys... too bad that they used their flagship product to experiment with...)

As a matter of fact I found most of Oblivion so uninteresting that I have no interest whatsoever in any expansions or any other "RPG" produced by Betheseda until they can concretely demonstrate that they have learned their lesson and can produce decent RPG fare again. I guess it's no wonder that one of the two main designers of MW quit Bethesda as soon as Oblivion shipped, and whose comments wrt Oblivion, if read correctly, foreshadow this conclusion. Bottomline though, in reality, is that they've made so much $$$ off Oblivion that their pinhead suits will probably think it was the greatest game ever, and that they need to make alot more just like it, preferably with a 10h $50 part and c. 100 $2.50 addons. I'd never thought I'd say this, but I really hope that Gothic 3 turns out to be really open ended(2 felt like an adventure game with more than the usual amt of RPGishness and action fighting), and kicks the crap out Oblivion.

In any event, I've ended up going back to MW + MGE + other mods, and find myself actually enjoying/appreciating that game more than ever.

Mitigating circumstances: Yes some of the annoyances, the dumbing down wrt quest GPS, etc. can be SOMEWHAT mitigated through use of your own or other's mods, however, I personally, prefer to have that sort of option out of the box. Also, I DID enjoy certain aspects for a while, e.g. sneaking around hunting various wildlife, etc.

Lastly, my machine is quite capable of running this game at an adequate fps/detail(high, 1280x1024(max monitor)) so it is not about poor performance of the technologies, etc.
 

Darkflame

Scholar
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
209
@Vipera,

I'd love to hear your opinions regarding the subject of this thread. Please enlighten the uncultured members of this forum.
 

Veracity

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Sep 25, 2006
Messages
155
sabishii said:
suibhne said:
Playing the game just to watch that crazy shit is fine. Thinking that crazy shit makes sense, or is good game design...that's a different matter entirely. :wink:
It's better than a game where nothing unexpected happens at all, where the only interesting things that happen in a ENTIRE NATION are things that only YOU do or initiate.
Never mind the wrangling over what is or is not 'mind-numbing'. By 'better', are you saying the AI in Oblivion is better game design than that in Morrowind and the hefty shovelful of other games in which NPCs are just posts that dispense a couple of dialogue trees and maybe a quest or three? As far as I understand, actual plot progression regarding such matters as the oh-so-pressing daedric 'invasion' is still entirely keyed to player actions; if the only 'interesting' things the Radiant scripts ever manage to do are laughably broken, surely they're even worse than lifeless NPCs, who at least have the weight of convention on their side? I guess it's arguably preferable in that Bethesda at least tried to improve on the usual template, but you can realistically rate only the product, not the hype. Otherwise, Molyneux would be president of the universe by now.
 

sabishii

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Veracity said:
Never mind the wrangling over what is or is not 'mind-numbing'. By 'better', are you saying the AI in Oblivion is better game design than that in Morrowind and the hefty shovelful of other games in which NPCs are just posts that dispense a couple of dialogue trees and maybe a quest or three? As far as I understand, actual plot progression regarding such matters as the oh-so-pressing daedric 'invasion' is still entirely keyed to player actions; if the only 'interesting' things the Radiant scripts ever manage to do are laughably broken, surely they're even worse than lifeless NPCs, who at least have the weight of convention on their side? I guess it's arguably preferable in that Bethesda at least tried to improve on the usual template, but you can realistically rate only the product, not the hype. Otherwise, Molyneux would be president of the universe by now.
Actually, no, the current Oblivion AI is just crap. However, I was saying that before they "nerfed" the AI, it would have at least been more entertaining. No, obviously not realistic by any means, nor conventional, but at least there would be something to capture my attention, compared to the lifelessness that is inherent as it is.
 

Ahzaruuk

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Oct 15, 2006
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Just a city called Sirius.
Oh for christ sake. Can't you guys just get over Oblivion? It's been eight months for crying out loud and you guys are STILL picking away at it.

Its all fine and dandy the first 25 times, but this is just bloody overkill. I expected better of the codex.

*sigh* :|
 

Micmu

Magister
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
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ALIEN BASE-3
Can't you guys just get over Oblivion?
Sadly no, because they love it way too much and they've been banned from official forums.
I'm wondering when will that ugly "Best Thread Ever" finally die.
 

JrK

Prophet
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
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Location
Speaking to the Sea
I guess 'we' can't. Oblivion is a milestone in the amount of hype and lies produced to propagandate the game. The sheer hugeness of unbelievability they tried to shove this shit down our throats *and* financially succeeded is confirming what we were already suspecting:

We're doomed.
 

ixg

Erudite
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Jan 20, 2006
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Scary...
We also get a steady stream of new disgruntled ESFer's who join the Codex.
 

Drakron

Arcane
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May 19, 2005
Messages
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I hope you are now or we are not doing the job right.

Anyway ... like it or not Oblivion because the "standart" were RPGs are judged by reviews so its not a question of us getting over Oblivion but the "market" getting over Oblivion.
 

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