Which programming language did you choose and why?

[Krice]

I've said this many times, but if a language has a big-brain barrier, in other words it's even slightly difficult to install and use, people are going to skip it easier, unless they are linux people, those guys like to make everything more difficult by their nature. I believe one of the big reasons C++ got so popular were IDEs, like Turbo C++ in the past and Visual Studio now. It's easy to install, no need to write some cryptic command line stuff etc.

 

[Jasede]

What

 

[OndrejSc]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck

 

[OndrejSc]

Why would anyone use anything else than assembler escapes me.

 

[Viata]

but since Rust arrived all C++ is legacy software

This is bullshit at its best. Rust was created in 2010, not last week. C++ is still being use all over the place, including on embedded programming which never stop being used(and no, it's hardly legacy software), no matter how big Rust got. Even the most interesting hobby OS being created right now uses C++(SerenityOS) instead of Rust.
Rust has one of the biggest problem in any programming language: the standard is the last commited code on its github page. I have read, though I can't find any example right now, about some last update of Rust fucking up a project. This makes a lot of people avoiding updating Rust if they are already working on something that uses it. Rust is not bad, but it clearly has the worst fanbase of any programming language, not even Python gets close to it. No other fanbase is known for annoying every project with "Rewrite in Rust" bullshit. Their logo is probably "rewrite in rust" given how much they keep spamming this shit. It makes it look more like Rust is so bad they need to force people use it than let Rust(which is a good language, btw) speak for itself by comparing with its opponents.

 

[Krice]

What

In Windows most people don't use command line to compile etc. At least they didn't until linux has begun to creep its communist ways into Windows as well. That's why IDEs were and still are so important. If other languages had dedicated IDEs they would probably be more popular than they are now. VS Code has made some languages easier to use, but it's not nearly as good as an actual IDE.

 

[Jasede]

I did all my paid C++ work in vim and wrote my own Makefiles so I can't relate.

However, now I'm paid for useless Java garbage and I'm hating the IDE bloat and hotswap agent and all the fucking bullshit.

I'm also so fucking tired of "C++/C is dying out" morons. No you fuck. They rule now, they'll rule in 30 years. Have you fuckfaces learned nothing in the last 30 years?

 

[Jasede]

My God I can only tell you asswipes what not to learn:

If you value your brain at all, don't learn any full stack shit, don't learn any web garbage, don't learn any trendy Rust shit. Trendy languages come and go, C is forever. All that stupid shit modern garbage does is think for you. That's why everything these days is huge and bloated and slow and disgusting and has 500 dependencies.

Here's what not to learn:

.net
JavaScript
Spring or any other bullshit like Vue and Angular and all that shit fucking soulless corporate shit
Rust
Go
Anything that's not 15 years old

I would also add Java but Java equals easy job so I guess you can learn that.

 

[J1M]

My God I can only tell you asswipes what not to learn:

If you value your brain at all, don't learn any full stack shit, don't learn any web garbage, don't learn any trendy Rust shit. Trendy languages come and go, C is forever. All that stupid shit modern garbage does is think for you. That's why everything these days is huge and bloated and slow and disgusting and has 500 dependencies.

Here's what not to learn:

.net
JavaScript
Spring or any other bullshit like Vue and Angular and all that shit fucking soulless corporate shit
Rust
Go
Anything that's not 15 years old

I would also add Java but Java equals easy job so I guess you can learn that.

Generally agree, but surprised .NET is on your list. Please elaborate.

 

[Jasede]

I don't know anything about it but don't like the name so it's on the list.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

However, now I'm paid for useless Java garbage and I'm hating the IDE bloat and hotswap agent and all the fucking bullshit.

Lol, yet another reason to love Python. Back in the day, all the crap around Java (or C# or C++), like IDEs, build tools, dependency injection frameworks, ORM frameworks, etc, sucked all the fun out of programming. Now, using Python on smaller-scale stuff, you can get by with a decent text editor, and it's like Zen. Before Rincewind gets his panties in a bunch, I am not claiming this would work for a 100 programmer project, I am just saying for what Python is typically used for, it's like HEAVEN compared to Java/C#, C++.

 

[Jasede]

Yeah. I don't like Python evangelists, but it's a dream for prototyping basically anything.

 

[kepler]

I don't know anything about it but don't like the name so it's on the list.

But .net is 20 years old now. And is open source now. And is like java but without retarded Oracle owning it.

 

[Jasede]

Why is every database company hot garbage?

 

[Viata]

And is like java but without retarded Oracle owning it.

As if having Microsoft instead is a better option.

 

[kepler]

And is like java but without retarded Oracle owning it.

As if having Microsoft instead is a better option.

Well... .Net is open source so it's own by "the community".

 

[J1M]

And is like java but without retarded Oracle owning it.

As if having Microsoft instead is a better option.

Microsoft will do anything for market share. Even give things away for free, make a project open source, or embrace multiplatform.

 

[kepler]

And is like java but without retarded Oracle owning it.

As if having Microsoft instead is a better option.

Microsoft will do anything for market share. Even give things away for free, make a project open source, or embrace multiplatform.

This is how they bring more people to Azure - place where MS makes money.

 

[Viata]

And is like java but without retarded Oracle owning it.

As if having Microsoft instead is a better option.

Microsoft will do anything for market share. Even give things away for free, make a project open source, or embrace multiplatform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

 

[Burning Bridges]

Generally agree, but surprised .NET is on your list. Please elaborate.

Programming .NET was nice for many years but I personally got tired of dll hell. Stuff breaking long after a successful release is really bad if you are already on other things. Also Visual Studio has become worse and worse and runs rather slow lately (I think it is because they coded it in .NET LOL )

Now I just distribute a folder and put in all required dlls and I do not need to fear late phonecalls. It just runs, even if I send it on a USB stick and tell them just to click the exe. I just dont wanna deal with this stuff anymore so it is really important for me.

Virtual machines are a good idea but when you think about it, for many scenarios they are actually not a good idea. If you need a highly specialized program that is simple, reliable and easy to install, why would you install all kinds of middleware, runtimes and dependencies, that need to be updated with new versions every 2 months.

 

[Arbiter]

However, now I'm paid for useless Java garbage and I'm hating the IDE bloat and hotswap agent and all the fucking bullshit.

Lol, yet another reason to love Python. Back in the day, all the crap around Java (or C# or C++), like IDEs, build tools, dependency injection frameworks, ORM frameworks, etc, sucked all the fun out of programming. Now, using Python on smaller-scale stuff, you can get by with a decent text editor, and it's like Zen. Before Rincewind gets his panties in a bunch, I am not claiming this would work for a 100 programmer project, I am just saying for what Python is typically used for, it's like HEAVEN compared to Java/C#, C++.

1. Can you name another high level language (i.e. one without pointers) that allows programmers to introduce a defect like that:

def my_append(e, l = []):
    l.append(e)
    return l

print(my_append(1))
print(my_append(2))

Output:

[1]
[1, 2]

2. Can you name another high-level language that broke backward compatibility the way Python 3 did and created a similar schism in its community?

3. Can you name another high-level language without multi line lambdas?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Can you name anyone besides you who cares?

These are all silly. Example 1, I don't even know if that's true, you seem to be suggesting that Python keeps in-function variables beyond the scope of the function, but even if it is in that scenario, if you write weird spaghetti code like this, you will run into problems anyway, regardless of language. Multi line lambdas? How often does that come up?

Stop being autistic. You can come up with a list of very specific complaints about any language.

 

[Arbiter]

Can you name anyone besides you who cares?

These are all silly. Example 1, I don't even know if that's true, you seem to be suggesting that Python keeps in-function variables beyond the scope of the function, but even if it is in that scenario, if you write weird spaghetti code like this, you will run into problems anyway, regardless of language.

Example 1 demonstrates default function arguments, not variables out of scope of a function. Do you have any Python experience? Since when are default function arguments considered spaghetti code?

Example 2 - Python developers do care, hence many Python libraries that only supported Python 2 or 3 for years. Moreover, what is the cost of porting Python 2 programs to Python 3?

Multi line lambdas? How often does that come up?

Stop being autistic. You can come up with a list of very specific complaints about any language.

I am going to present some lambda examples next week, once I recover from jet lag after returning from my holidays.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

My point is if you look at any language closely enough, you can find a ton of stuff to complain about. All the stuff you mentioned is fairly minor. The first example if it's true, ok so you get used to that, and adjust your code. If you are testing your code as you should, it won't ever cause any real issues. And if migrating from Python 2 from Python 3 was such a big deal, why has the language become even more popular since then? And multi line lambdas? Lol.

 

[Viata]

2. Can you name another high-level language that broke backward compatibility the way Python 3 did and created a similar schism in its community?

Perl 6? They even changed the name to Raku 19 years after its design started probably to avoid any Python 3 bullshit.