Which programming language did you choose and why?

[Jasede]

Yeah if you're a gifted programmer your 50+ million C++ LOC database enterprise behemoth compiles quickly.

Are you retarded? Hundreds of people work on these codebases. Hundreds.

Great, now I'm getting trolled by a retard too. It's contagious.

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

I thought that optimizing compile times is bad in professional environments. It cuts down on your downtime you could use for browsing Codex for example.

 

[Rincewind]

Great, now I'm getting trolled by a retard too. It's contagious.

Well, the Codex keeps giving us valuable lessons. Once you're down to their level, rational reasoning stops to work, and you're just out of arguments...

 

[Norfleet]

I thought that optimizing compile times is bad in professional environments. It cuts down on your downtime you could use for browsing Codex for example.

And that's why a one-man tiny outfit has fast compile times while a giant professional project has awful compile times, because one of them wants to have fast compile times so he and work more and the other doesn't see any reason to aim for fast compile times because he wants a legitimate excuse not to work.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

But for a high performance UI and backend, who would seriously chose something like that?

Instagram? Pinterest? Reddit? Youtube? Google? But hey, if facts hurt, you can always just say they are trolling you.

They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language.

While some Python features and libraries are implemented in fast C and have good performance if used as intended, overall it's abysmal.

"They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language."

...

"They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language."

....

https://instagram-engineering.com/web-service-efficiency-at-instagram-with-python-4976d078e366

"Instagram currently features the world’s largest deployment of the Django web framework, which is written entirely in Python."

"The Instagram explore page is viewed by 200 million accounts daily."



So 2 Eastern Euros running potato farm middleware, and an Aussie developing kangaroo defecation tracking app think Python is not good enough. But a billion user website gets by... Whom to believe...

c'mon porky the jig is up. Those examples are mostly just junk to steal the life-time of millenials. Our users have much different problems and much more serious demands than clicking through ads and frolic because images automatically have round corners.

Lol, so now wrecked in terms of real life HUUUUGE applications using Python, you are gonna be like... but but but Porky, I don't like these massive Python apps, I find them aesthetically displeasing... Ok, bro, it's a free country.

... WAAAAAAAHHHHH.... Python suckssss... Smart people only pick it cause they learned it in school (as opposed to Java and C++ which everyone also learns in school), and now everyone is switching to this other language Kaitlyn or Nimrod or Erdurp, which is going to catch up to Python any day now... Sure Python is #1, but Erdurp is already at #35, after being around for only 20 years...

 

[Rincewind]

Keep going at it, mate! Give it a few days and we'll collectively nominate for you for a Village Idiot tag or something. You've worked hard for it!

 

[gaussgunner]

They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language.

While some Python features and libraries are implemented in fast C and have good performance if used as intended, overall it's abysmal.

"They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language."

...

"They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language."

....

https://instagram-engineering.com/web-service-efficiency-at-instagram-with-python-4976d078e366

"Instagram currently features the world’s largest deployment of the Django web framework, which is written entirely in Python."

Django is a Python wrapper around C libraries, compiled regular expressions, highly optimized database queries, etc.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Keep going at it, mate! Give it a few days and we'll collectively nominate for you for a Village Idiot tag or something. You've worked hard for it!

You know, the more you lose the argument, the more ad hominem your attacks become, and the more I KNOW that you are losing.

They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language.

While some Python features and libraries are implemented in fast C and have good performance if used as intended, overall it's abysmal.

"They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language."

...

"They don't use Python for high performance applications. It's a scripting and integration language."

....

https://instagram-engineering.com/web-service-efficiency-at-instagram-with-python-4976d078e366

"Instagram currently features the world’s largest deployment of the Django web framework, which is written entirely in Python."

Django is a Python wrapper around C libraries, compiled regular expressions, highly optimized database queries, etc.

C is a wrapper around Assembly libraries. Assembly is a wrapper around binary code. Every higher level language is a wrapper around earlier and more primitive languages. Am I starting to get through now?

 

[gaussgunner]

C is a wrapper around Assembly libraries. Assembly is a wrapper around binary code. Every higher level language is a wrapper around earlier and more primitive languages. Am I starting to get through now?

Go read a C compiler, retard. That's not how it works. It compiles directly into nearly optimal machine code. Assembly (usually inline) is only used in rare edge cases where significant optimizations are still possible, and to wrap specialized opcodes like RDTSC that have no equivalent in any high level language.

 

[Hirato]

The company I worked at, before the one I work at now, made database software. The C++ thing I worked on took 3 hours to compile on a 32-core industrial grade workstation.


Just so people can get an idea about compilation times.


Our solution was to use a compilation cluster. But even then it would still take 20-40 minutes.

What did they do to it?
For reference I can compile a complete and fully optimised Linux kernel from scratch in 30 minutes using 8 cores.
And that's 4 times the power and 6 times the time.

 

[Arbiter]

So 2 Eastern Euros running potato farm middleware, and an Aussie developing kangaroo defecation tracking app

I think you've earned this:

Don't bother responding to my posts, I never click "Show ignored content".

Anyone else willing to nominate for a special tag?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

C is a wrapper around Assembly libraries. Assembly is a wrapper around binary code. Every higher level language is a wrapper around earlier and more primitive languages. Am I starting to get through now?

Go read a C compiler, retard. That's not how it works. It compiles directly into nearly optimal machine code. Assembly (usually inline) is only used in rare edge cases where significant optimizations are still possible, and to wrap specialized opcodes like RDTSC that have no equivalent in any high level language.

Good job on completely missing the point. But I guess you've made a living of that in this thread.

So 2 Eastern Euros running potato farm middleware, and an Aussie developing kangaroo defecation tracking app

I think you've earned this:

Don't bother responding to my posts, I never click "Show ignored content".

Anyone else willing to nominate for a special tag?

You seem upset. Is it because I've destroyed every one of your silly arguments?

 

[gaussgunner]

Ironically, Porky is right that CEO/CTOs of startups picked up Python & Ruby a lot more often in the past; usually these people are hucksters with just enough technical knowledge to be dangerous, so they probably just picked up some dynamic language because other startups did the same, read an article about it, or believed that it would help them produce their v1.0 prototypes faster. What gets forgotten is that 99.99% of huckster-lead startups fail, so there's a large dose of survivor bias in that "brilliant companies use Python" argument... "Brilliant" is also relative — they can be financially successful and still have a net-negative effect on mankind as a whole.

I was interviewed by one of those CTOs once. The company shut down a month later and the founder fled the country with a few million dollars embezzled from retarded angel investors and government loans.

 

[Rincewind]

the more ad hominem your attacks become

Strange coming from your mouth, as you were the one going down that path in the first place.

 

[Krice]

50+ million C++ LOC database enterprise behemoth compiles quickly.

Are you retarded? Hundreds of people work on these codebases. Hundreds.

Where do you need 50+ million lines of code anyway? I bet these hundreds of people get paid by lines of code they produce... and the rest is history.

 

[kepler]

50+ million C++ LOC database enterprise behemoth compiles quickly.

Are you retarded? Hundreds of people work on these codebases. Hundreds.

Where do you need 50+ million lines of code anyway? I bet these hundreds of people get paid by lines of code they produce... and the rest is history.

This must be exaggeration right? Linux kernel is 30mils LOC.

 

[Rincewind]

50+ million C++ LOC database enterprise behemoth compiles quickly.

Are you retarded? Hundreds of people work on these codebases. Hundreds.

Where do you need 50+ million lines of code anyway? I bet these hundreds of people get paid by lines of code they produce... and the rest is history.

This must be exaggeration right? Linux kernel is 30mils LOC.

If this chart is to be believed... "average modern cars" with 100 mloc.

Syphillis is also quite respectable at 1 mloc of information

https://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/million-lines-of-code/

 

[Jasede]

Wasn't exaggerating.

 

[Krice]

Linux kernel is 30mils LOC.

Open source tends to be like that, bloated for no reason. Lots of contributors, no one knows exactly what to do, possibly tons of duplicate code etc. C is also prone to duplicate code.

 

[Burning Bridges]

"The Instagram explore page is viewed by 200 million accounts daily."

And what are they doing there? Should I show you a room full of people who care about Instagram?

Those 200 million "accounts" are morons and making the application respond slowly is not a problem in this context but rather considered a positive boon. The only important thing is that everything has rounded edges and they can enter a lot of information about their consumer behavior.

Or are you seriously suggesting that anyone is "productive" there?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Where do you need 50+ million lines of code anyway? I bet these hundreds of people get paid by lines of code they produce... and the rest is history.

I have long compile times too, in my case it is because I compile a lot of libraries from source. For some reason I could not use libs or dlls. I should probably solve that problem some day but it is not serious enough right now.

I am talking about stuff like libraries for Excel or zip files that I dont want to look inside of at all, but are also forced to use.

So I assume if you have a lot of libraries, and often inlcude one that you only need for a fraction of functionality (even though it can require more libraries) it is very inefficient in terms of compilation times. But at the end of the day it is much more important to have that functionality than compiling fast. Software is supposed to minimize the time employees spend on repetitive work, not to minimize compilation time.

It is annoying though, especially when you come from eg C# where compilation takes mere seconds. But I rather have no problems with running the application than during compilation.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

the more ad hominem your attacks become

Strange coming from your mouth, as you were the one going down that path in the first place.

I don't think so... I listed the most popular languages out there today (ironically Java, C# were also listed), and because I said positive things about Python, you and your little band of middleware loonies have been foaming at the mouth since.

"The Instagram explore page is viewed by 200 million accounts daily."

And what are they doing there? Should I show you a room full of people who care about Instagram?

Those 200 million "accounts" are morons and making the application respond slowly is not a problem in this context but rather considered a positive boon. The only important thing is that everything has rounded edges and they can enter a lot of information about their consumer behavior.

Or are you seriously suggesting that anyone is "productive" there?

Do you even begin to comprehend how much you are strawmanning now? Your initial argument was that no one uses Python for apps that require high performance. Now that I ruined that argument with a simple real life example (one of MANYYYYY), you are arguing what, that Instagram is a not a productive app for the end-user? Lol, nice try kiddo.

 

[Tramboi]

Do you even begin to comprehend how much you are strawmanning now? Your initial argument was that no one uses Python for apps that require high performance. Now that I ruined that argument with a simple real life example (one of MANYYYYY), you are arguing what, that Instagram is a not a productive app for the end-user? Lol, nice try kiddo.

Instagram doesn't require "high performance" as in "low latency" and "efficiency". It's all about scalabilty... and wasting huge amounts of CPU in datacenters on Django.

Impress us with real high-performance applications, not with web frameworks, if you want to defend Python's performance.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Middleware developer in basement: Oh Porky, Python is never used in large real world apps, only for scripting.
Porkmeister: Wham, bam, Instagram!
Middlewear developer (after wiping cold sweat off): But Porky, 200 million visits a day is not REALLY high performance, my potato analysis algorithm has 3 nested loops, each iterating over 4,000,000,000 potatoes, how will Python fare here? Got ya!

 

[Rincewind]

Any kind of attention is better than no attention at all, right Porky?