Why are most indie games so dumb-looking/sounding?

[Damned Registrations]

As far as I'm concerned thr whole poit of a game being 'indie' is the lack of a publisher. This means the devs have total free reign to dick with their product, their team, their toolset, their release date... you name it.

The only line where this gets blurry is if a company gets wealthy doing this and can self publish multiple games at a time. I'd draw the line at one of two places: when they have more than one dev team, or when they've published a game developed by another studio besides themselves. Either of those things indicate that the purse strings aren't in the hands of the guys making the game anymore.

 

[Trash]

tl;dr...who gives a shit?

Autists who just can't let goooooooo

 

[Wunderpurps]

BRO THOSE GAMES MAY NOT BE INDIES TECHNICALLY BUT WHO GIVES A SHIT

INDIES STILL EXIST AND YOU STILL CANNOT CHANGE REALITY

CALL THEM SCHMOOPY THAT WORD MAKES ME SMILE

Shareware is a method of sales, so simply calling something shareware because it's good is pretty retarded.

There's little in indie land for RPG because it takes so much fucking work to make a proper RPG but for other genres amongst the sea of crap there's quite a bit of good stuff. But maybe he's right and indie should be a dirty work, it always seems like the guys talking about indie are the very worst ones out there trying to get some street cred.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

BRO THOSE GAMES MAY NOT BE INDIES TECHNICALLY BUT WHO GIVES A SHIT

INDIES STILL EXIST AND YOU STILL CANNOT CHANGE REALITY

"Indie" is still useless for describing a game, whenever it exist or not. You can as well start calling games made by black developers "nigger games". And then start your own site promoting "nigger games" and make your living from it.

tl;dr...who gives a shit?

Autists who just can't let goooooooo

It's ADHD, not autism.

 

[Wunderpurps]

It's ADHD, not autism.

There's no such thing.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

It's ADHD, not autism.

There's no such thing.

Could you elaborate?

 

[oneself]

tldr: When you have profit in mind, you tend to make shittier product.

EDIT: Can anyone explain to me why is naming so important to you people? Is it because you are all english majors?

 

[Damned Registrations]

You should read 1984.

The meaning of words is important. Trying to change people's definition of the word 'indie' to mean 'trendy hipster shovelware' will damage the reputation of any game referred to as an indie game. Considering that includes a lot of my favourite games, I've an interest in keeping the meaning of the word close to it's original intent.

Changing the meaning of a word rarely has any good effect. Changing the meaning of 'special' to 'retarded' didn't protect retarded kids from being mocked, and changing the meaning of buzzwords like 'indie' or C&C' won't stop assholes from promoting their shitty games as things they aren't.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

tldr: When you have profit in mind, you tend to make shittier product.

EDIT: Can anyone explain to me why is naming so important to you people? Is it because you are all english majors?

It's because names influence people's minds. Creating a meaningless "indie" category serves only to justify trendy hipster shovelware and to promote double standards.

 

[Damned Registrations]

By this logic the meaningless phrase of 'C&C' only serves to justify shitty RPGs with vapid superficial dialogue options, and we should never reference it again, even if we're talking about games with genuinely important choices.

The indie category was around before hipster shovelware and changing the meaning of the word isn't going to make shovelware go away, they'll just grab another buzzword.

Also, it's not exactly a double standard when the price of something is different. I don't expect a 1000$ computer to perform the same as a 6000$ computer, is that a double standard too?

 

[halflingbarbarian]

C&C, RPG, Indie, etc. and the point that words carry a subtle legacy beyond its surface meaning and that shit should be set right - OKAY. All these terms are subjective, just as any word in the English language can be subjective, and that meanings evolve over time and usage, and differ from culture to culture. It's all context. The whole debate of trying to pin down a meaning to a term like Indie is quite futile, imo.

You can say it's more constructive to establish the meaning of Indie on RPGCodex, a small community (disregarding the fact that there's nothing the Codex can agree on, anyways) than trying to prove that the usage of the word Indie and the perception of the word Indie by some people somewhere is faulty. You must have realised that most debates on semantics turn out to be a waste of time because that's what it is. And there's nothing you can do about it (unless you become the Emperor of some world dominion in a pseudo-technocracy and get to decide on the final, definitive meaning of terms and jail people who trespass on your definitions).

 

[Wunderpurps]

By this logic the meaningless phrase of 'C&C' only serves to justify shitty RPGs with vapid superficial dialogue options,

Which is exactly what's happened. Game and match.

I didn't really get what Awor was on about but I have come to see the light. It's always the biggest douches talking about indie this and indie that, and oh it's ok that it looks like shit and is written entirely in internet memes because it's indie.

 

[Trash]

tl;dr...who gives a shit?

Autists who just can't let goooooooo

It's ADHD, not autism.

Talking about buzzwords.

 

[BLOBERT]

"Indie" is still useless for describing a game, whenever it exist or not. You can as well start calling games made by black developers "nigger games". And then start your own site promoting "nigger games" and make your living from it.

http://www.bet.com/
http://www.starz.com/channels/starz/starzinblack
http://www.ebonyjet.com/
http://blackmusictube.com/
http://www.blackexpressions.com/

BRO LOLOOLOLOOLOLLOLLOLOL

SOMEONE COULD MAKE MONEY WITH NEGRO GAMES IF DONE RIGHT

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE BUT IF YOU ARE A WHITE PERSON IN AMERICA WHETHER OR NOT A MOVIE IS FOR BLACK PEOPLE IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT IN THE THEATER

TRUST ME ON THIS

 

[Wunderpurps]

BRO I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE BUT IF YOU ARE A WHITE PERSON IN AMERICA WHETHER OR NOT A MOVIE IS FOR BLACK PEOPLE IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT IN THE THEATER

TRUST ME ON THIS

I heart the dlack guys who talk at the movies, usually much more entertaining than the shit on the screen.

 

[Wunderpurps]

LOLOL DOWN IN FRON MAY BRACK BROS IT'S VERY IMPORTANT MY GIRL SEES TWILIGHT WITHOUT MISSING ANYTHING OT SHE'LL MAKE ME WATCH THIS FUCKER AGAIN.

OH HEY WAIT.

OOMPH

OH GOD MY EYE MY EYE WHAT ARE YOU DOING BROS

 

[oneself]

For me indie is any game made by an individual or a small group of people. There is nothing hipster about having small teams.

But it just so happen that better stuff tend to be made by a individual/small group, and we just happen to associate quality of games to # of people worked on that particular game.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Any examples of these "hipster fag" games?

 

[convivialist]

Because after 7 pages of repeating the same empty statements people usually suddenly start backing up their argument with evidence and examples.

 

[Lord Rocket]

I think it's pretty fair to consider 'indie' games as an extension of the 'indie music' or 'indie films' aesthetic; of course, it only really works if the devs refer to themselves as 'indie' and are generally self-conscious about the whole thing (attempting to create 'art' is generally a good gauge as well).

On the other hand, there's no real precedent for doing that with computer games, although there probably will be soon, and using indie as shorthand for 'independent' is completely legitimate as well. In fact, given the context and general presentation of indie games (first definition) you'd have to be a bit of a stupid cunt to not be able to tell the two uses of the term apart. Like mentioning bark while talking about trees and the other guy asking you why you're going on about dogs all of a sudden. Also note that neither of the definitions has anything to do with the size of the teams working on the fucking things.

 

[Wunderpurps]

Any examples of these "hipster fag" games?

I didn't make the thread but I'd put anything in flash in that category, and 80% of pixel art. Driftmoon, gunrox, any zmbie shit I've seen, shit it seems like they outnumber legitimate games 100 to 1.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Really is just "shit i don't like" then...carry on.

 

[Trash]

Really is just "shit i don't like" then...carry on.

That's what about 80% of the opinions voiced here boil down to. The rest being mostly of the 'shit i think the kodex doesn't like so i can score KKKredits' variety. Sad.

 

[Wunderpurps]

Not really. I find it tough to see why you can't understand why it's cutesy art styles that are mainly at issue. Root or Braid or My Brute could be great examples, though those probably qualify as good for what they are not utter shit. Something like gunrox is cutesy gay bullshit that's just fucking terrible, but if you took art like that for an rpg I really couldn't take it seriously.

So it's cutesy "hipster" bullshit compared to realistic or gothic or classical styles, or stylized but dignified artwork like Winter Voices or The Void.

So in summary, you can't into art, you can't into reading, and you are apparently extremely butthurt over, well fuck I don't even know why you are so butthurt.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

because it's not a coherent argument.

Of the games you posted, only two look alike. My brute and gunrox...that's only because of the kwan anime characters. looking at screenshots, gunrox's environment look like standard low budget isometric tile sets. Probably licensed from an asset farm.

If bad art direction is your problem then fair enough, but you've just lumped together a shitload of games that look and play nothing alike, and labeled them all "indie hipsterfaggotjewnigger" games.

Actually, fuck that...looking back it's skyway that lowered the tone of the thread, again.

 

[sea]

It's because most indie games, especially successful indie games, are also hipster games made for hipsters and designed by hipsters.

Could I make money on such projects too?

Can you program C#? Can you delve into the mind of a 14 year old ADD mentally challenged child? If you answered yes to both questions, you too can profit in the XBLIG market.

Too bad most indie games fail to turn a profit and even the overnight success stories like Super Meat Boy don't make tons of money (no more than say, working a minimum wage retail job). But if you want to spend six months on a game for almost no return, be my guest!

 

[Wunderpurps]

because it's not a coherent argument.

Of the games you posted, only two look alike. My brute and gunrox...that's only because of the kwan anime characters. looking at screenshots, gunrox's environment look like standard low budget isometric tile sets. Probably licensed from an asset farm.

If bad art direction is your problem then fair enough, but you've just lumped together a shitload of games that look and play nothing alike, and labeled them all "indie hipsterfaggotjewnigger" games.

Actually, fuck that...looking back it's skyway that lowered the tone of the thread, again.

No, it's not just bad art. Yes there is a common theme between it all you just seem to be completely blind to artistic style. There is room for many themes in any art style. All of them are stylized, that's one theme. Desperately trying to be cute is another theme they have in common, which I think is what spawned this thread.

It's not an argument at all, it's a judgement call and if you can't see it you can't have it explained for you except maybe if you spend a shitload of time making art and learning about it. I do think "this shit is kind of gay" but not everyone will, but that's not what makes it similar. It's also subjective and I'm sure some art experts would disagree or at least have a better explanation.