Why are most indie games so dumb-looking/sounding?

[convivialist]

I don't understand all this shit about trying to distinguish "indie" as something shitty from "independent" as something legitimate. Isn't "indie" just short for "independent"? Like how there's "independent film." but people sometimes refer to those films as "indies"?

It seems like a bunch of people are having to backtrack their attitude that all indie games suck when they realize that half their favorite classic games were technically indie games. So suddenly it's "uh, no we were talking about indie games, which are made by hipsters, not independent games, which are awesome."

No, it isn't the same shit. We don't need to know whenever game is "independent" or not. It's not important to us. What is important to us is whenever it's a good game or not. Therefore we don't have a reason to use shitty labels as indie.
It doesn't matter to me who made the game and who funded it as long as I'm having a lot of fun with it. The concept of a indie game is a new shit and a part of the decline. Indie is usually used as a justification of low standards.

The only reason "indie games" are new is because only recently has it been possible for a substantial number of people to create their own games independently. And many of the people doing so are doing so in reaction to the decline, not as part of it. Their attitude is "okay, if game developers aren't going to make good games anymore, we'll have to try making them ourselves."

Super Meat Boy is not a good game either

First it starts off promising but then you realize that completing each extremely small level requires nothing but pressing the right buttons and the right times as envisioned by developers turning a game into one massive QTE. Also it has infinite lives so you keep jumping at a wall until it breaks.

Compare that to platformers of 20 years ago or so made by professionals - big varied levels and something like 3 lives motherfucker eat shit

The indie game for you is Spelunky. Big levels (randomly generated, for maximum replay value), limited lives, and high difficulty.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO WAY TO SUBTLE FOR THE CODEX EVEN IF THEY DIDNT BOTHER TO REDEFINE ANY WORDS IN YOUR POST THEY DID NOT LIKE

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I don't understand all this shit about trying to distinguish "indie" as something shitty from "independent" as something legitimate. Isn't "indie" just short for "independent"? Like how there's "independent film." but people sometimes refer to those films as "indies"?

It seems like a bunch of people are having to backtrack their attitude that all indie games suck when they realize that half their favorite classic games were technically indie games. So suddenly it's "uh, no we were talking about indie games, which are made by hipsters, not independent games, which are awesome."

No, it isn't the same shit. We don't need to know whenever game is "independent" or not. It's not important to us. What is important to us is whenever it's a good game or not. Therefore we don't have a reason to use shitty labels as indie.
It doesn't matter to me who made the game and who funded it as long as I'm having a lot of fun with it. The concept of a indie game is a new shit and a part of the decline. Indie is usually used as a justification of low standards.

The only reason "indie games" are new is because only recently has it been possible for a substantial number of people to create their own games independently. And many of the people doing so are doing so in reaction to the decline, not as part of it. Their attitude is "okay, if game developers aren't going to make good games anymore, we'll have to try making them ourselves."

There were tons of shareware and freeware games made by one developer or by a small team in 90s. Nobody called them "indies". And even when Vogel's Exile came out it was much lower tech than contemporary games. Vogel himself made his most complex party dungeon crawling games as an economics student (and he was declining ever since he got on the "indie" scene where he got infected with severe casualitis).
It's funny how now people are now rewriting gaming history:
Back then games were only for nerds, back then it was impossible for a substantial number of people to create their own games independently, ADHD kids can't play complex games, etc.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO SHAREWARE IS FREE AND SO IS FREEWARE

JUST IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW BECAUSE IF STEAM PUT UP A FREEWARE CATEGORY AND CHARGED PEOPLE MONEY I WOULD THINK THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF GAME TERMS ARE AS BAD AS THE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD

I THINK THEY SHOULD CALL THESE GAMES SCHMOOPY

SO A GAME MADE BY AN INDIVIDUAL OR SMALL GROUP WILL BE CALLED SCHMOOPY CAUSE INDIE IS TOO OFFENSIVE LOLLOLLOLLOLOL

BRO LOLLOLLOOLLOLOL GENEFORGE IS FREEWARE ,OLLOLLOLOLLOL SO IS BRAID

 

[BLOBERT]

I AM NOW DECLARING SERIOUS SAM AN RTS

DARK SOULS IS A RETRO PLATFORMER WITH SHOOTER ELEMENTS

MARIO KARTS IS A MALT LIQUOR BEVERAGE MARKETED TO AFRICAN AMERICANS

EXCITEBIKE IS A PC RPG THAT CAN BE A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER IF YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES AND PRETEND

HALO IS FREEWARE

LIMBO IS A FIRST PARTY BIG BUDGET EXCLUSIVE

WELL THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE DEFINITION OF IS IS

BROS AND YOU CANT ARGUE THAT IS WHAT I HAVE DECIDED IT MEANS YOU ARE ALL WRONG

 

[Fowyr]

The only reason "indie games" are new is because only recently has it been possible for a substantial number of people to create their own games independently.

Eh.
Ancients
Walls of Bratock
Nahlakh
Natuk
Aethra Chronicles
WarWizard
Exile
Azalta
Dark Disciples
Psionics
Aleshar
Runesword
Disciples of Steel
Yendorian Tales

Just from the top of my head. Should I continue?

 

[BLOBERT]

NONE OF THOSE ARE INDIE

I HAVE DECLARED THUS IT IS SO

 

[Fowyr]

None of those are indie. They don't have whip and herpetophobia.

 

[hoopy]

Indie simply has a different meaning than independent. End of story.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

BRO SHAREWARE IS FREE AND SO IS FREEWARE

JUST IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW BECAUSE IF STEAM PUT UP A FREEWARE CATEGORY AND CHARGED PEOPLE MONEY I WOULD THINK THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF GAME TERMS ARE AS BAD AS THE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD

I THINK THEY SHOULD CALL THESE GAMES SCHMOOPY

SO A GAME MADE BY AN INDIVIDUAL OR SMALL GROUP WILL BE CALLED SCHMOOPY CAUSE INDIE IS TOO OFFENSIVE LOLLOLLOLLOLOL

Fuck you and your revisionism, Blobert. We didn't need to call games "indie" in 80s and we didn't need to call them "indie" in 90s. But now the great indie scene appears and wants to retroactively claim that all these games made in 30 years were a part of that scene.

 

[convivialist]

Indie simply has a different meaning than independent. End of story.

A story it took six pages to tell, which amounted to "indie is different from independent because only artfag hipsters use the word indie"... How could anyone not be convinced by such a sophisticated argument?

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO SHAREWARE IS FREE AND SO IS FREEWARE

JUST IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW BECAUSE IF STEAM PUT UP A FREEWARE CATEGORY AND CHARGED PEOPLE MONEY I WOULD THINK THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF GAME TERMS ARE AS BAD AS THE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD

I THINK THEY SHOULD CALL THESE GAMES SCHMOOPY

SO A GAME MADE BY AN INDIVIDUAL OR SMALL GROUP WILL BE CALLED SCHMOOPY CAUSE INDIE IS TOO OFFENSIVE LOLLOLLOLLOLOL

Fuck you and your revisionism, Blobert. We didn't need to call games "indie" in 80s and we didn't need to call them "indie" in 90s. But now the great indie scene appears and wants to retroactively claim that all these games made in 30 years were a part of that scene.

BRO BUT THEY STILL ARENT SHAREWARE

BRO YOU ARE FIGHTING WITH THE WRONG GUY IM NOT CLAIMING OLD SHIT AS INDIES YOU ARE CONUSING ME WITH SOMEONE ELSE

BRO YOU ARE REVISIONING AS MUCH AS THE OTHER BROS THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT FREE WARE AND SHAREWARE WERE NOT A LOW PRICE ALTERNATIVE TO A HIGH BUDGET GAME MARKET THEY WERE SHIT THAT WAS FREE AND OFTEN DEMOS MY FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH THE WORD SHAREWARE WAS WITH DOOM

WHO GIVES A SHIT IF WE NEED TO CALL THEM INDIES THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE CALLED]

YOU PROBABLY HATE THE ARTSY PLATFORMERS THAT THE NAME INDIE CONNANTATES BUT WHATEVER THE WORD HAS BEEN PLACED AND FOR NOW MOST ALL SMALL OR ONE MAN STUDIOUS WILL BE SOLD AS INDIES

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

It's kinda sad when the only reasonable person in the thread is posting in all caps

to you BLOBERT, I couldn't possibly handle the amount of derp you've been thrown as eloquently as you have.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

BRO SHAREWARE IS FREE AND SO IS FREEWARE

JUST IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW BECAUSE IF STEAM PUT UP A FREEWARE CATEGORY AND CHARGED PEOPLE MONEY I WOULD THINK THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF GAME TERMS ARE AS BAD AS THE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD

I THINK THEY SHOULD CALL THESE GAMES SCHMOOPY

SO A GAME MADE BY AN INDIVIDUAL OR SMALL GROUP WILL BE CALLED SCHMOOPY CAUSE INDIE IS TOO OFFENSIVE LOLLOLLOLLOLOL

Fuck you and your revisionism, Blobert. We didn't need to call games "indie" in 80s and we didn't need to call them "indie" in 90s. But now the great indie scene appears and wants to retroactively claim that all these games made in 30 years were a part of that scene.

BRO BUT THEY STILL ARENT SHAREWARE

BRO YOU ARE FIGHTING WITH THE WRONG GUY IM NOT CLAIMING OLD SHIT AS INDIES YOU ARE CONUSING ME WITH SOMEONE ELSE

BRO YOU ARE REVISIONING AS MUCH AS THE OTHER BROS THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO POINT OUT FREE WARE AND SHAREWARE WERE NOT A LOW PRICE ALTERNATIVE TO A HIGH BUDGET GAME MARKET THEY WERE SHIT THAT WAS FREE AND OFTEN DEMOS MY FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH THE WORD SHAREWARE WAS WITH DOOM

WHO GIVES A SHIT IF WE NEED TO CALL THEM INDIES THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE CALLED]

YOU PROBABLY HATE THE ARTSY PLATFORMERS THAT THE NAME INDIE CONNANTATES BUT WHATEVER THE WORD HAS BEEN PLACED AND FOR NOW MOST ALL SMALL OR ONE MAN STUDIOUS WILL BE SOLD AS INDIES

No. I hate the word "indie" itself and the concept of "indie". What if the one man can create something much more complex than many AAA games? What will the name "indie" mean? What information about game type will it carry? Also, what if that man created that game when he was on university and was supported by his parents? Was he "independent" then?
And what about old games? Fallout is cheaper than the famous "indie" cRPGs. Does it mean that it's an "indie" game too, since it is a low price alternative to high budget games. And while we're at it, Fallout was made and published by Interplay. Does it mean that it's "indie" too?

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO YOU ARE TILTING AT WINDMILLS I THINK

BRO IF ONE MAN CREATES SHIT THE QUALITY OF TOP STUDIOS THEN I THINK THEY WILL HAVE A GAME CHANGER ON THEIR HANDS

UNTIL THEN INDIE STICKS BECAUSE ONE MAN WILL NOT EQUAL THE PRODUCTIOIN VALUES OF CURRENT STUDIOS THAT IS WHY THE GAMES SELL FOR LESS MONEY AND WHY THEY DO NOT HAVE VOICE ACTING AND STATE OF THE ART GRAPHICS

BRO YOU ACCUSE THIS THREAD OF REVISIONISM AND THEN YOU BRING UP FALLOUT CMON YOU ARE TALKING OUT OF BIOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH STAY ON TOPIC

GAMES DEVELOPED BY ONE OR A FEW PEOPLE NOW AS IN TODAY ARE CALLED INDIES TODAY THAT IS REALITY

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT CALL THEM SCHMOOPY AND MAYBE EVERYONE ELSE WILL FOLLOW

 

[BLOBERT]

It's kinda sad when the only reasonable person in the thread is posting in all caps

to you BLOBERT, I couldn't possibly handle the amount of derp you've been thrown as eloquently as you have.

BRO AWOR IS A TOTAL BRO I WOULD BROFIST HIM IN REAL LIFE IF I COULD

 

[Fowyr]

Awor, you are right, but don't fight with windmills.
On the other hand, fighting with windmills one of the typical codexian actions. Remember TESF and Bioware social.

 

[convivialist]

This has to be the only thread in the history of the Codex in which the measure of a good game has been reduced to whether it has production values equal to those of the top studios.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO GOOD GAME OR NOT INDIES ARE INDIES NO MATTER THERE QUALITY

I CALL MY PENIS ZWEIHANDER BUT IT IS STILL 3 INCHES

I CANNOT CALL IT 12 INCHES BECAUSE IT IS NOT 12 INCHES BUT I STILL CONSIDER IT MY FAVORITE PENIS ALL CONSIDERATIONS OF LENGTH ASIDE AND IF IT WAS 12 INCHES IT WOULD STILL BE MY FAVORITE PENIS

INDIES CAN BE GOOD OR BAD AND YOU CAN CALL GOOD INDIES SOMETHING ELSE BUT THEY ARE STILL INDIES

BROS AS A MATTER OF FACT I AM VERY ANGRY THAT THERE ARE SEPERATE WORDS FOR PENIS AND VAGINA I THINK THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING I WOULD LIKE TO NAME THEM NONOS

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

BRO YOU ARE TILTING AT WINDMILLS I THINK

BRO IF ONE MAN CREATES SHIT THE QUALITY OF TOP STUDIOS THEN I THINK THEY WILL HAVE A GAME CHANGER ON THEIR HANDS

Hmm...
ADOM? Armored Brigade? Both made by one man, both updated much more than many big studio games, both offer literally years of fun and have high quality complex game mechanics. I actually moved from Close Combat (initially made by Microsoft and then by Atomic Games and later by Matrix Games) to Armored Brigade due to the awful AI and general backwardness of CC and I was comparing the mechanics of Baldur's Gate to ADOM in the end of 90s and the mechanics of Baldur's Gate didn't look favourably in that comparison.

UNTIL THEN INDIE STICKS BECAUSE ONE MAN WILL NOT EQUAL THE PRODUCTIOIN VALUES OF CURRENT STUDIOS THAT IS WHY THE GAMES SELL FOR LESS MONEY AND WHY THEY DO NOT HAVE VOICE ACTING AND STATE OF THE ART GRAPHICS

And since when voice acting and state of the art graphics depend on whenever a game is "indie" or not? Didn't Braid have state of the art graphics? Doesn't Lugaru 2 have state of art animations? And, what if I don't like blurred textures and uncanny valley characters? Can I count modern 3dshooters as "indies", then? Also, less money? Anything that is published in stores drops prices while niche games usually keep high prices.

BRO YOU ACCUSE THIS THREAD OF REVISIONISM AND THEN YOU BRING UP FALLOUT CMON YOU ARE TALKING OUT OF BIOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH STAY ON TOPIC

It's the concept of "indie" games that is revisionist and useless. It's possible to develop low budget/niche games without being "independent", therefore it can't describe games in any meaningful way.

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT CALL THEM SCHMOOPY AND MAYBE EVERYONE ELSE WILL FOLLOW

Why should I call them anything beyond the name of the genre and subgenre? "Indie" won't tell me whenever graphics are ugly or good, whenever mechanics are complex or primitive, whenever design is good or not. And since the the "indie bundles" and Steam sales appeared it won't even tell me that the price will never drop.

 

[Fowyr]

WINDMILLS

windmills

I'm unnerved my synchronization with BLOBERT.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO THIS IS POINTLESS INDIE GAMES IS A CATEGORY AND YOU DONT WANT IT TO BE

WHEN ADOM IS INDISGUISABLE FROM FAG EFFECT YOU MAY HAVE A POINT ;WIPDBO

BRO LLOLLOLLOLOL ADOM IS FREEWARE BTW THAT WOULD BE A CORRECT USE OF THE TERM

ALTHOUGH OF COURSE IF THE PRICE OF A GAME IS AN IRRELLEVANT FACTOR AND A GAME SHOULD ONLY BE DESCRIBED BY GENRE

AFSNwe;ofnhqwr;inoeqrgio;bneqrg'oinrgoi;RWNGF;2we'ofjb 'snK;/NA/kabsn loDBS Q;lsVLKDSNV.AVSN LS'JVNwk/lrfvnRWLKGVNwrlv'nwRLGVKNwrgvlnWRGV'IOrwngvpEWRIGVNwrpgvin

 

[BLOBERT]

ONE DAY THW WHEN THE WIND RISES THE ROOOKS WILTNHHB THIN THE SWORD I WILL BE THOUGH THOUH THOU HAST FORGOTTWEN IBOOONAS ICUNT CUNTUN CUNHTUN CUNT IN A ASOWIONINFT

I HAVE DECLARED THE CODEX OWNED BY A MAJOR PUBLISJER I DECREE IT AND SO IT SHALL BE I DESPISE THE IDEA OF INDEPENDENT WEBSITES AEFIOHNWIN AND THE BALLS ASS COCK OASRIHAKJNAED

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

BRO THIS IS POINTLESS INDIE GAMES IS A CATEGORY AND YOU DONT WANT IT TO BE

WHEN ADOM IS INDISGUISABLE FROM FAG EFFECT YOU MAY HAVE A POINT ;WIPDBO

BRO LLOLLOLLOLOL ADOM IS FREEWARE BTW THAT WOULD BE A CORRECT USE OF THE TERM

What about shit like Close Combat re-releases? They are made by volunteers and one programmer, graphics are outdated, engine is horribly outdated. The game is licensed and all important decisions need to be approved by Matrix Games. The budget is pathetically low (due to the need to pay for license) but the developers aren't "independent". What now?

Claiming that non-"independent" games need to have budget sizes of Mass Effect is retarded. Again, it's perfectly possible to make a non-"independent" game with low budget. Which makes the distinction between "independent" and "dependent" games useless.
And again, what about Braid and its state of art graphics? Is it non-indie because of that?

Another thing. Let's say I start a game publishing company. I call it "Shit Games". It publishes games through newspaper stores. I hire some gamemaker/rpgmaker fags and I order them to make games for me and pay them for developing them. I also meddle with their designs just for shit and giggles. I get low budget games with barely passable graphics and sell them in newspaper stores (there are publishers that do something like this). Are these games "indie"? Take in account that the developers aren't independent.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO THOSE GAMES MAY NOT BE INDIES TECHNICALLY BUT WHO GIVES A SHIT

INDIES STILL EXIST AND YOU STILL CANNOT CHANGE REALITY

CALL THEM SCHMOOPY THAT WORD MAKES ME SMILE

 

[fizzelopeguss]

What about shit like Close Combat re-releases? They are made by volunteers and one programmer, graphics are outdated, engine is horribly outdated. The game is licensed and all important decisions need to be approved by Matrix Games. The budget is pathetically low (due to the need to pay for license) but the developers aren't "independent". What now?

A licensed game developer with shit production values? try putting that on your resume.

They might be invited to "indie" game award ceremonies/ covered by "indie" game sites because they're little guys who are beneath the notice of gargantua's like EA/Activision/Favored gaming rag sites and need all the advertising and word of mouth they can get.

tl;dr...who gives a shit?