Why do Codexers like KOTOR 1?

[Xor]

I'm convinced the only reason people remember KOTOR is because of the twist. Bioware figured that out too, and put twists in all their games after that for years. Maybe if I hadn't waited 8 years to play KOTOR1 and I hadn't know about the twist going into the game, I'd be defending it too. I doubt it, though. KOTOR2 has about the same gameplay but much better writing.

 

[Prime Junta]

KOTOR1 has a number of redeeming features. The pacing is good, the voice acting is, on the whole, good, the atmosphere is good, the story holds up well with a nice tension and the twist, it has some unarguably cool NPC's (notably HK-47), and it's more Star Warsy than some extremely megahuge members of the franchise. It may read like fanfic, but it reads like competent fanfic, unlike some things I can think of <cough>phantom menace<cough cough>.

Personally I liked it well enough. I also liked Jade Empire well enough. I haven't really enjoyed any BioWare game since; even DA:O turned me off with its MMO-ey gameplay, over-the-top grimdark, and dumb set pieces, despite also having some redeeming features (great C&C, dwarf noble origin story, fully-developed world).

 

[raesha]

Kotor 1 picks up a fair bit once you get past Taris imo, but its still inferior to kotor 2 for many reasons.

I think one of the reasons people remember it so much is because it rolled around at a time when the prequel movies were still kinda relevant and offered competent star wars writing, albeit it kinda flat and simplistic reading a bit like a fanfic.

 

[Roqua]

Because they love console games with super ridiculously easy combat and meaningless character development. And the clear black and white morality of the dialogue choices appeal to lowbrow monkey savages since it doesn't hurt their brain.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Because they love console games with super ridiculously easy combat and meaningless character development. And the clear black and white morality of the dialogue choices appeal to lowbrow monkey savages since it doesn't hurt their brain.

Some of us like to have our latent sense of wonder stimulated. A quick blast around a science fantasy universe as a big epic hero is not a crime, as long as you don't make a habit of it*.

* See Mass Effect

 

[Jools]

Personally, I like it quite a bit and I dunno why. I'll try to self-diagnose.

-First off, when it was released, I had so far been an avid reader of Dark Horse comics set in the "old" SW universe, especially the Tales of the Jedi series, and KOTOR went just ahead and put that kind of feeling into an interactive form of entertainment;
-As a total lover of the Jedi Knight series, which had just gona full derp/retard with the Jedi Academy instalment, KOTOR kinda redeemed the SW videogame panorama a bit, and gave me the chance to see some more lightsaber action on screen (however in its silly, demi-RTWP, boring hybrid form);
-It's Star Wars;
-The story, however banalshitboring one might find it, featured half-decent writing and came across as a decent "fable" kind of tale;
-Bastila, even her low-poly self, is totally fappable to;
-Apart for a few sections/elements, the game was lightheartedly enjoyable and entertaining;
-I did like the D&D-meets-SW feeling, especially since I still was a big NWN fan (online shards, mostly) at the time KOTOR was released, thus the system felt kinda familiar;
-It was the first game (as far as I recall) that allowed the player to play different "classes" from the familiar character stereotypes (smuggler/rogue, trooper, consular/guardian/hybrid) we all knew from the movies;

Well, there's that, so far, and as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

I like KOTOR, but I think it largely has to do with the fact it was a better prequel to the original star wars than any of the actual prequels. Star Wars was never deep, but it was briskly paced and fun. KOTOR really captures that even if it is easy. You never stick around one place too long, it's got an over the top twist, and enough of the companions are done well enough to not annoy you. Overall it's a shallow, but fun RPG. The biggest problem with the reputation it has is mostly in retrospect, Bioware never figured out how to improve on the design or writing they did in KOTOR and instead got worse.

 

[vdweller]

Maraan

I think it's Manaan, if memory serves from Empire ar War.

KOTOR came out quite some years ago. It was more of a deal back then, this and some other RPGs of that time like Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire etc.

It's difficult to shed any light on why one likes a game while a look at the past is so easily distorted by nostalgia or some generic fondness of years past. Granted, they might have been less shitty than the present, but it's not like the game came out in 1980.

Also, fuck writing from a smartphone.

 

[MRY]

I think KOTOR has loads to recommend it. To begin with, its polish is extraordinarily high. To be sure, I recall some annoying console-style controls, but basically the game looked and sounded fantastic, had a basically functional camera, wasn't plagued by outrageous bugs (though I played it at least a year after release), and is -- in my opinion -- the best example of the Bioware plot formula. Is there anything more satisfying than finding parts of a map? The morality system is basic, but stuff like the character's appearance changing as he goes Sith is quite neat. The evil path has some great moments, even if they're a silly notion of evil. There are many laugh-out-loud funny moments in the game, and many satisfying moments, like when you finally get a light saber.

Obviously the Codex has lots of people who look past polish to the substance underneath, and the substance in KOTOR has its weaknesses. But sometimes it's nice to just play something that plays well, even if it's not deep, as oppposed to something deep that is also deeply flawed.

 

[Ruhfuss]

KOTOR2 has prettier light saber colour options than KOTOR1.

 

[Excidium II]

KOTOR2 has prettier light saber colour options than KOTOR1.

And actual jedi robes.

 

[laclongquan]

What Jedi robe? My char always in the buff~

 

[Manmower]

I liked K1 for the same reason I liked Zelda as a kid - it has an innocent charm that draws your into the game.

The game was neither gritty nor serious, but it never attempted any of that. It was a fun romp with feel-good characters.

And as much as we like to shit on Bio's writing, K1 has a believable story, interesting plot twist, and somewhat memorable characters.

A solid 8/10 in my book.

 

[Jaesun]

Joined: Tuesday

 

[Ninjerk]

Go back to BSN.

 

[Severian Silk]

I didn't like either of the KOTORs much. Characters/story made me cringe more in KOTOR 1, but KOTOR 2 was also kind of boring, and didn't feature as much exploration IIRC. Combat in both was pretty lame, especially with only three characters at a time. I would rather have had a party of 4-6 and isometric turn-based combat, or at least a BG clone.

(I actually can't think of a [isometric] turn-based RPG with 6 characters, other than ToEE. I am not counting RPG-lite games like Silent Storm or JA2.)

[edit]

Prelude to Darkness had parties of 6 and TB combat. And it is excellent except for the crude graphics. Why they don't remake this or release the source code so other people can, I dunno.

[edit]

Exile as well.

 

[Mexi]

I never finished playing it. The binary just killed me. I hate Star Wars' good and evil shit.

I'll say one thing. I had to come back twice. The starting part is so boring. It's only when you leave the starting planet that the game becomes fun.

I think if they flipped the setting on its head and got away from the good vs. bad shit, it wouldn't have been so bad. The combat is actually pretty fun for a casual RPG. The graphics are also really nice. I think they still hold up well, and everything is just so easy on the eyes.

I've never played KoTOR: 2, but I hear the storyline is better.

 

[Ruhfuss]

(I actually can't think of a turn-based RPG with 6 characters, other than ToEE. I am not counting RPG-lite games like Silent Storm or JA2.)

Sometimes it's better to live in the past.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ssis-gold-box-series-thread.61389/

 

[Severian Silk]

(I actually can't think of a turn-based RPG with 6 characters, other than ToEE. I am not counting RPG-lite games like Silent Storm or JA2.)

Sometimes it's better to live in the past.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ssis-gold-box-series-thread.61389/

These are not isometric enough.

 

[Mexi]

Codex should be taken with a grain of salt. They claim to hate, hate, hate, modern gaming yet buy the latest shit and have 10,000 post discussions on it. Still better than elsewhere tho.

Eh, they lauded Wasteland: 2 as a good game. Enough said about the Codex.

 

[Theldaran]

I have two objections about KOTOR1:

- The pace is slow, and you've got to put in some hours to get to the good. But, you know, that's the thing with 50-hour games (even though HLTB marks 30 hours average for KOTOR1).
- You might finish the game and hadn't unlocked the full content for your party. It's better to stick with a consistent party to play all of their content. They have lots. This was a major upgrade over the BG's. Of course, some characters appear later in the game so you've got to be patient, and bring them with you at every occasion. The downside is the romances if you hate that shit.

Otherwise a solid game.

 

[Ninjerk]

Then there's the whole issue of the gameplay being completely banal boring shit.

 

[Theldaran]

Then there's the whole issue of the gameplay being completely banal boring shit.

That's d20 system for you; also true for NWN so it depends if you can tolerate it or not.

 

[Xor]

That's d20 system for you

And yet ToEE managed to pull off the D&D ruleset just fine. So did the infinity engine games for that matter. Even NWN 1 and 2 did a better job.

 

[Theldaran]

Maybe the system used was especially shitty, or at least especially shitty to simulate Jedis and so on. I have played D&D Third Edition during years, but not Star Wars d20.