Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Why does Codex hate Oblivion so much?

Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
785
Location
Ali Ghaylān
Oblivion is a classic. There is so much to do and such a big world that it is very liberating. With no real classes, you can do almost anything given enough time and training. The flora and fauna of Cyrodil is diverse and interesting. The graphics, at the time were quite impressive. I admit I love Oblivion, I played like hundreds of hours in it. However, there is the Oblivion out of the box which you grow tired of rather quickly, certainly after one full run through the main quest (which I liked but could be more elaborate) and some of the guild quests. And then there is the modded Oblivion which is simply amazing and a universe in itself.

Definitely the one of the best, if not the best game, I have ever played. A must play for fans of RPG's, or anyone who is looking for an RPG experience that isn't hardcore. Even though there's a couple of little niggles, it still fells finished, polished, and the DLC adds so much more depth to the game.

Yes it has its flaws - level scaling, UI, animations are silly, main story is quite cheap, atmosphere still not as good as Morrowind etc. Yet still the world is unbelievably huge and very well made. It requires a special approach to this game to fully enjoy it, but it is worth it.
With the proper mods it is an absolute treat. So long as you dont know about the level scaling system untill youve poured your life into this thing you will be fine. Its true. The elder scrolls provide a universe that makes you forget the bugs, forget the level scaling issues, forget what small problems persist, its all an amazing expierience. Oblivion is game like no game in its genre.. The story has complexity and yet is displayed in an understanding theatrical way. With monstrosity of number of things to do or kill, it appears almost infinite. The design of upgrading your character with so many options is thrilling.

So, why does Codex hate such an universally loved game??
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
5,479
Location
Free City of Warsaw
It's bland, generic and boring. Somewhere on the road from Morrowind the Bethesda discarded everything that was original, bizarre and fresh.

And faces of characters look like sacks of potatos.
 

Atleticano

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,140
Location
Perdeu, mané. Não amola!
oblivion w mods is legit one of the most wholesome experiences around

and then, after investin some hours with the great mods out thre, one can stil play nehrim and be amazed by that new world

but, yeah, morrowind is still the tes masterpiece, but oblivion can grow on you after some hundreds of hours
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
785
Location
Ali Ghaylān
Why aren't you posting on main, Templar?

Oblivion sold 4+ million copies. There are more than one person who agrees with the sentiment of Oblivion being great. It also won the GOTY and has Universal acclaim.

Sad attempt!
 

None

Learned
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
524
Because it solidified the slide into decline started during the transition from Daggerfal to Morrowind. Voiced/simplified dialogue, simplification of systems, etc. RPGs for the masses, not for us basement dwellers. Also, for the more involved TES fan, it ushered in the era of "new TES lore". Such as Cyrodill being generic-Tolkien medieval fantasy, instead of the Rome in a hellish jungle that TES2's Pocket Guide described.

It isn't all bad in my opinion. I remember enjoying it while playing, but it isn't something I've ever bothered to go back to.
 

Baardhaas

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
553
Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here
However, there is the Oblivion out of the box which you grow tired of rather quickly, certainly after one full run through the main quest (which I liked but could be more elaborate) and some of the guild quests. And then there is the modded Oblivion which is simply amazing and a universe in itself.
The only way to have fair discussion is to talk about unmodded Oblivion else you'd add some much variables to the mix we wouldn't be talking about the same game anymore. Besides, the mods is the work of the community, and yes, maybe mods can fix Oblivion. But if I were to critise Oblivion, I'd aim my critisism at the developers how they envisioned the game.

Yes it has its flaws - level scaling, UI, animations are silly, main story is quite cheap, atmosphere still not as good as Morrowind etc. Yet still the world is unbelievably huge and very well made.
Level scaling (to the extend they've implemented it in Oblivion) wasn't just a flaw. It is the single worst design decision the devs made. Just consider a character system where to actually get stronger relative to the game world, you should not level up. In fact, the world wouldn't be in trouble if it wasn't for the PC leveling. The guards are perfectly capable of dealing with a few rats, wolves and low level dremora. All of the sudden the roads become unsafe because they're populated by level scaled ogres and glass armor wearing bandits.

As for the world being well made: no, not really. It suffers heavily from 5 houses and 10 npc's are a city syndrome. Most cities not only are way to small, they sport huge disney like city walls, which are completely unsustainable for the small population.
At about the same time Oblivion released, Gothic 3 came out. For all of it flaws, and Gothic 3 has many, world design was excellent. Cities felt (albeit still small) decently large for a 3d game, city walls were constructed with careful use of the availble terrain. Gotha for example was situated on an excellent chokepoint, it made perfect sense that people build a fort exactly there since it controlled one of the few roads to the capital. Oblivion never paid much attention to world building, it's more like they designed the cities and forts as disconnected entities which they thought looked cool and just slapped them on the world map.

Oblivion is game like no game in its genre.. The story has complexity and yet is displayed in an understanding theatrical way.
You've stated the main story was 'cheap', now you call it complex and well presented. Which is it?

With monstrosity of number of things to do or kill, it appears almost infinite.
Yes it is infinite, both in its content (endless respawns and repopulated dungeons) and infinitely pointless where your progress is actually detrimental. You only buff up the enemy by leveling and get more and more levelled creatures thrown at you. There's no need to explore either, since the loot is both random and levelled. Doing the same dungeon over and over again gives you just as much chance for good loot as going to other end of the map. Trying to obtain a unique item by searching in some of the most obscure places will always turn out to be a disappointment. Exploration and character building are simply not rewarded. The game manages to show promise when you start, butafter a few hours it reveals how incredibly hollow it is with seemingly endless repetetive grinding, no interfering questlines and everything scaled to your level.

The design of upgrading your character with so many options is thrilling.
No, the character system is an abomination. The game let's you be master of every skill. There really is no need to put any thought whatsoever in building your character in Oblivion. Save for gaming the system where the only winning move is not to level.
 

Butter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
5,476
Oblivion is the embodiment of decline.

* Butcher the UI for the sake of consoles.
* Hide the cities behind loading screens, necessitating the removal of levitation so that the player can't go over the city walls.
* Make quests more "cinematic", necessitating the removal of teleportation spells so that the player can't break the quest scripting.
* Remove enchanting and alchemy cheese.
* Cut the number of major factions in half.
* Cut the number of armour slots by more than half.
* Introduce the most broken level scaling in history so that the player is never challenged and there's no sense of progression and the world stops making sense.
* No, really. Even quest rewards are level scaled, so those unique items you get early in the game get replaced with generic junk 2 levels later.
* "Streamline" the skill system until it stops making sense, like classifying axes as blunt weapons.
* Significantly reduce the importance of attributes.
* Significantly reduce the number of dialogue options.
* Replace Morrowind's contextual fast travel options with map-based fast travel.

But at least you get to hear NPCs have nonsensical conversations.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,872,555
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
I have op's new avatar ready:

4fkgc02tcs241.jpg
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Oblivion is the embodiment of decline.

* Butcher the UI for the sake of consoles.
* Hide the cities behind loading screens, necessitating the removal of levitation so that the player can't go over the city walls.
* Make quests more "cinematic", necessitating the removal of teleportation spells so that the player can't break the quest scripting.
* Remove enchanting and alchemy cheese.
* Cut the number of major factions in half.
* Cut the number of armour slots by more than half.
* Introduce the most broken level scaling in history so that the player is never challenged and there's no sense of progression and the world stops making sense.
* No, really. Even quest rewards are level scaled, so those unique items you get early in the game get replaced with generic junk 2 levels later.
* "Streamline" the skill system until it stops making sense, like classifying axes as blunt weapons.
* Significantly reduce the importance of attributes.
* Significantly reduce the number of dialogue options.
* Replace Morrowind's contextual fast travel options with map-based fast travel.

But at least you get to hear NPCs have nonsensical conversations.
Technically speaking, It's Morrowind that started decline if we use the same logic ( removing features from previous opus)
Oblivion and Fallout 3 almost single handedly caused the decline of RPGs
Nope, Quest compass was introduced by Virtual Hylide, Which later will be spread By World Of Warcraft.
As for removing Features from previous entry, Morrowind started it, therefore Oblivion is just the prolongation not the responsable.
As for FedEx Quests, Blame WoW which speaded it all.
Oblivion and Fallout 3 aren't reponsibles, Blame World of Warcraft for it.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
I didn't say Oblivion started the decline.
I didn't say that you have said that. I just want accuracy. People accuse Oblivion and Fallout 3 of everything wrong but in reality they aren't responsible of all accusations.
Oblivion and Fallout caused decline of RPGs Wrong, Blame World of Warcraft
Oblivion is the first game that removes the most features Wrong, Blame Morrowind
Oblivion is the first RPG that uses quest compass Wrong, Blame Virtual Hydlide
Oblivion is the first RPG that uses instant fast-Travel, maybe.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Butter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
5,476
I didn't say Oblivion started the decline.
I didn't say that you have said that. I just want accuracy. People accuse Oblivion and Fallout 3 of everything wrong but in reality they aren't responsible of nearly all of accusations. Only Dumbed-down Morrowind accusation (which is a dumbed-down Daggerfall) is true.
Fair enough. I've been playing Daggerfall a bit recently. Its dungeons and character creation are undeniably better than Morrowind's, but some of the things people tout about it seem to only be good in theory. Hundreds of vast cities sounds cool, but most of the buildings serve no function and aren't worth entering. A world twice the size of Great Britain sounds impressive, but there's no reason to travel outside any of the marked locations because it's just empty. There was something lost between Daggerfall and Morrowind, but there was also something gained: everything in the world is hand-made and has a purpose. Oblivion didn't add anything to compensate for all that was lost.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Fair enough. I've been playing Daggerfall a bit recently. Its dungeons and character creation are undeniably better than Morrowind's, but some of the things people tout about it seem to only be good in theory. Hundreds of vast cities sounds cool, but most of the buildings serve no function and aren't worth entering. A world twice the size of Great Britain sounds impressive, but there's no reason to travel outside any of the marked locations because it's just empty. There was something lost between Daggerfall and Morrowind, but there was also something gained: everything in the world is hand-made and has a purpose. Oblivion didn't add anything to compensate for all that was lost.
Voiced NPCs, Radiant Retarded AI, 1 button gameplay loop->2 buttons gameplay loop, Physic, and for once NPCs who do their lives.
Surelly, it wasn't enough considering its reception on Codex. But it was a 3 years development compared to a 6 years development (Morrowind).This was rapiddly seen in game. Half of the Development time of Morrowind and by pure coincidence, half of Morrowind's features were implemented in Oblivion with some plus listed above.
Edit: And an another thing, Skyrim was made in 3 years as well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Vlajdermen

Arcane
Joined
Nov 19, 2017
Messages
1,269
Location
Catholic Serbia
Oblivion and Fallout 3 almost single handedly caused the decline of RPGs
Mass effect is equally guilty. It and the Bethesda games caused a split in RPGs, and instead of one cohesive genre, they became either CYOABs or single-player World of Warcraft. Forcing the genre into those two extremes is as much of an element of decline as consolization.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Top Bottom