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Why does Codex hate Oblivion so much?

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
9,409
Location
Nottingham
It's bland, generic and boring. Somewhere on the road from Morrowind the Bethesda discarded everything that was original, bizarre and fresh.

And faces of characters look like sacks of potatos.

THIS!!!!!^^^^^

And he should know, he's the Lord of Potatoes.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
3,701
But whats broken here is not the class system, it's the fact that more levels are worse. If the gameworld was static, and more levels were a pure benefit to you, then the system would work bona fide. So I attribute the blame to the level scaling, not the class building.
I was talking rather about system in general, yes, but if we take your premise and look at the class-system, then it would boil down to chosen minor skill bonuses if I'm not missing something. It can hardly even be called a "class-system", honestly.
If you attribute the blame for level scaling in western rpgs to Oblivion however, it is absolutely just to hate it.
Level-scaling, horse armor, over the top quest markers (it might be difficult to beleive but TOW managed to actually beat that), mandatory VO... Combined with overwhelming success affect on the genre cannot be overemphasized, really. As for "scaling put off normies" - Bethesda just tuned it in their next games, they didn't gave up on the idea.
 

CappenVarra

phase-based phantasmist
Patron
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
2,912
Location
Ardamai
op, you got it all wrong

we don't hate oblibion, we despise it

we hate morons who not only like that crap but come here to defend it

if you think that's what a crpg should be like, may i suggest suicide?

be sure to post the video in GD so you don't die without entertaining us

:hero:
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
op, you got it all wrong

we don't hate oblibion, we despise it

we hate morons who not only like that crap but come here to defend it

if you think that's what a crpg should be like, may i suggest suicide?

be sure to post the video in GD so you don't die without entertaining us

:hero:
Wow man, you are such a dissident. I think you're the only one shitting on Oblivion and Oblivion fans. Your opinions are such unique and you really can make your opinion by yourself, truly.
 

madhouse

Guest
It has the worst level scaling I've ever seen in a RPG. The setting was utterly butchered; from a jungle province to a bland and generic Medieval fantasy setting. TES has a history of making ugly NPC's, but Oblivion definitely took the cake with its potato headed characters and the racial differences being a matter of vomit green, bright violet, shitstained brown or blue-white abomination. Weaponry and armors are some of the blandest and ugliest in the series as well. It doesn't help that even legendary daedric artifacts will be obsolete in a few levels unless you get them extremely late in the game ( level +25 IIRC ). Game actually gets more difficult as you level up and feels like the reverse of progression; unless you autistically meta-game and do the opposite of what is intuitive for a RPG game. You start off by fighting mudcrabs and wolves only for all of those creatures to be replaced by ogres and minotaurs everywhere you go. Humanoid enemies suddenly get scaled armor and weaponry too. Rather than fighting bandits and rogues clad in leather scrap and cheap iron armor, you're facing vagabonds trying to rob you for a couple of septims while wearing armor worth a fortune and made of legendary materials such as glass, ebony and daedric. Combat, as is the tradition in TES games, is lame and gives a feeling that you're actually using plastic or rubber weaponry instead of weapons with real weight and capability to dispense violence. While it is much appreciated that they tried giving life to the NPC's rather than having walking Wikipedia depositories masquerading as villagers, smiths and so forth, what they really achieved is the most hilarious and broken NPC system ever. Watching two Oblivion NPC's interact and have a conversation nine out of ten times comes off as two alien life forms attempting human speech and miserably failing at stringing together a coherent conversation. Or, better yet, imagine two severe schizophrenics speaking.
The only good things I like about this game are the side quests, notably that Dark Brotherhood quest line. While it is extremely generic and bland, the soundtrack is quite lovely and it is very relaxing having a stroll in green hills and meadows with some odd ogre and daedric armor clad bandit trying to interrupt it. That and they had some quality voice acting.
 

Fishy

Savant
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
398
Location
Ireland
I don't hate Oblivion, I even enjoyed it while it lasted. But it never left any major memories, apart from the DB questline (and 'Whodunit' in particular), the Arena announcer and maybe the final thief quest. Everything else is just a big bland mix of potato heads, glass armour bandits, grey stone buildings/dungeons and green hills. Oh, and an Oblivion gate here. Oh, and there. Ah, and here too. Ok, **** those Oblivion gates, seriously.

I thought I'd be all over it after Morrowind, but it just felt terribly bland, and it didn't help that the Spellmaker got butchered too. And something just doesn't work scale-wise. If I remember correctly, it is technically bigger than Morrowind, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it. Thanks to its geographical design, draw distance limitation and lore-friendly fast-travel options, Vvanderfell felt big and going from one end to another, or into some forlorn coastal/mountain village was a trek. Vivec itself managed to feel like an immense maze and Mournhold itself was ok. In Oblivion it's either zero-lore clicking on a marker, or beelining to destination on horseback. It ends up feeling so tiny that it's difficult to feel out there when all those major cities are so close to each other, and the scale is just off for the Imperial City we should have been losing outselves into but feels more like a couple FPS deathmatch maps.

At the end of the day, I find Morrowind more entertaining for the world and builds, and Skyrim a better/prettier alternative if I'm in action-TES mood. I think Oblivion is the only mainline TES game since Arena I never felt like revisiting (I say mainline because I never managed to will myself too far into Battlespire at the time).
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
Skyrim is desatured shit, Oblivion is at least colorful and I can agree with some of the points Thac0 made. I never really played Oblivion without mods (and deactivated level scaling).
 
Last edited:

moleman

Savant
Patron
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
534
Location
Birthplace of the headless horseman
Oblivion is like it had been created by an AI not actual people. It had the generic Chosen-One story, except you weren't the chosen one you were the errand boy of the chosen one.
It had boring cities with boring NPCs in it who all seemed to be on the far side of the autism spectrum. It hat dozens of boring dungeons with absolutely nothing interesting in it.
It had a boring sountrack which was like fantasy elevator music. I still find it hard to believe that this was made by the same guy who made the sountrack for Icewind Dale.
I just can't understand people who masturbate over this game and call the Gothics "eurojank".

Oh, and the Oblivion gates... So literal gates to hell are opening and no one gives a shit.
"But there was the Battle of Bruma" you might say.

Ah, yes the epic Battle of Bruma...

Here is a faithful recreation of the Battle of Pearl Harbour Bruma:

 

eggdogg

Learned
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
102
I remember hating oblivion portals popping up all over the place. I seem to recall a leveling system that took the fun out of leveling...not an easy task.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
It doesn't help that even legendary daedric artifacts will be obsolete in a few levels unless you get them extremely late in the game ( level +25 IIRC ).

This is a minor quibble, but I hate having to correct it constantly - Daedric artifacts are not affected by level scaling. You are locked off from Daedric quests until you are a high enough level, so those rewards are static. You need to be Level 20 before you can do Boethiah's quest and receive Goldbrand, so Goldbrand will always have 25 base damage and have a 22 pt. Fire Damage enchantment. Other quest rewards are level-scaled because the player can pick them up at any time, and this is where you get all of the items whose stats/enchantments are based on ranges of Levels 1-4, 5-9 etc. until topping out at 25+ such as the Escutcheon of Chorrol, Chillrend and so on.
 

madhouse

Guest
It doesn't help that even legendary daedric artifacts will be obsolete in a few levels unless you get them extremely late in the game ( level +25 IIRC ).

This is a minor quibble, but I hate having to correct it constantly - Daedric artifacts are not affected by level scaling. You are locked off from Daedric quests until you are a high enough level, so those rewards are static. You need to be Level 20 before you can do Boethiah's quest and receive Goldbrand, so Goldbrand will always have 25 base damage and have a 22 pt. Fire Damage enchantment. Other quest rewards are level-scaled because the player can pick them up at any time, and this is where you get all of the items whose stats/enchantments are based on ranges of Levels 1-4, 5-9 etc. until topping out at 25+ such as the Escutcheon of Chorrol, Chillrend and so on.
You are right. It still applies to quest rewards that are not Daedric items, which is a valid criticism and arguably the biggest criticism, i.e. level scaling. I might be wrong on a few minor details as my last playthrough was some 10 years ago, I think.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
It doesn't help that even legendary daedric artifacts will be obsolete in a few levels unless you get them extremely late in the game ( level +25 IIRC ).

This is a minor quibble, but I hate having to correct it constantly - Daedric artifacts are not affected by level scaling. You are locked off from Daedric quests until you are a high enough level, so those rewards are static. You need to be Level 20 before you can do Boethiah's quest and receive Goldbrand, so Goldbrand will always have 25 base damage and have a 22 pt. Fire Damage enchantment. Other quest rewards are level-scaled because the player can pick them up at any time, and this is where you get all of the items whose stats/enchantments are based on ranges of Levels 1-4, 5-9 etc. until topping out at 25+ such as the Escutcheon of Chorrol, Chillrend and so on.
You are right. It still applies to quest rewards that are not Daedric items, which is a valid criticism and arguably the biggest criticism, i.e. level scaling. I might be wrong on a few minor details as my last playthrough was some 10 years ago, I think.
I only mentioned it because people constantly bring up Daedric artifacts despite them being one of the few things in the game which actually aren't level scaled.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,764
I just stumbled upon this "gem" of a retrospective video on Oblivion:



Dude says absolutely nothing of relevance. Morrowind story is appearantly "not realistic" because it was hard to follow and because you didn't get IMMERSED.

Oblivion fans in a nutshell...
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
5,815
Location
Cradle of Western Civilization
Why aren't you posting on main, Templar?

I have repeatedly posted here that i loathe Oblivion, it is the black sheep of Bethesda single player games. It is a bad RPG, nay, a bad vidya game all around. I hate it.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Oblivion is absolutely their low point. Fallout 3 is pretty bad in many of the same ways, but not quite as bad as Oblivion. Oblivion is the only one I've barely put any time into since release. I did a relatively quick replay with the OOO mod, but that's it.
 

TemplarGR

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Bethestard
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
5,815
Location
Cradle of Western Civilization
I just watched it. Feel like I became dumber by doing it. For fuck's sake, what the hell he's even talking about? Realism, sense of urgency, beleivable NPCs, "gorgeous, amazing examples of architecture", fast travel... Jesus.

Most people who like Oblivion were toddlers when it was released and in full hype of the Lord of the rings (Bethesda butchered the lore to clone LOTR) movies, that's all there is to it. It is just nostalgia, like all the sheeple that pretend Fallout 1 and 2 are the best games ever made and had no problems or shallow combat or bad design. LOL. People often tie specific nostalgic memories to video games they played at the time, so it makes them special to them, personally, and they misplace this sentimentality as objective fact. Happens on the codex all the time with oldies.
 

madhouse

Guest
I just stumbled upon this "gem" of a retrospective video on Oblivion:



Dude says absolutely nothing of relevance. Morrowind story is appearantly "not realistic" because it was hard to follow and because you didn't get IMMERSED.

Oblivion fans in a nutshell...

What an absolute retard. Thanks for the laugh. Read the comments to the video if you want to see how bad it really is.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
Playing with about ten trillion mods atm, about 16-17 hours in. I'm having fun, but the game is really at it's best when you're just wandering around in the wilderness and doing things like picking flowers etc. and trying to avoid the primary content. Combat is fixed and made decently complex with stuff like MOO and the new Melee Combat Additions, which adds a poise system, bashing, weapon clashes and so on. Av Latta Magicka is very good too, especially since it's configurable through LINK (thank God for Maskar). So the combat and the level scaling/loot placement etc. can be fixed 99% of the way, but I don't think there will ever be an overhaul which actually fixes the quests. It's amazing how a quest like 'Paranoia' technically has something like ten different endings, and none of them make any sort of change to the wider world. It's all pointless. The mod 'Reaction' adds some nice scripted reputation/disposition bonuses and detriments to quests, but it's not like pissing NPCs off ever means anything. Like you could fuck over Fathis Ules in 'Sins of the Father', but it wouldn't ever stop you from joining the Thieves Guild or anything. Pretty crazy how there's simple solutions to the lack of choice and consequence but it would require a rework of the game's entire faction system.

tl;dr - game sux, but i'm having fun picking Flax and wandering around the west side of the map (very comfy!)
 
Self-Ejected

Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
Vanilla Oblivion is shit because:

1. Melee combat is incredibly unsatisfying. Flail at enemies repeatedly until they fall over. Not much feedback on hits, no real strategy to it, lots of "death by a thousand paper cuts" type fighting.
2. Magic is also incredibly unsatisfying, for the most part. Only real fun to be had with magic typically comes from screwing around with certain Illusion/Enchantment stuff, getting NPCs to go berserk and smack each other, and that actually gets old very fast.
3. Character advancement is tedious yet insanely shallow, and levels don't really feel like much of an achievement.
4. Minigames for various skills are pathetically unchallenging, arbitrary and uninspired. Speechcraft pizza is impressively stupid.
5. Oblivion gates all over the Cyrodiil countryside get old, FAST. The Oblivion levels within are remarkably uninteresting for a realm full of lava, carnage and death.
6. It's so easy to break the everloving shit out of Oblivion you can do it ACCIDENTALLY. A certain standing stone and quick advancement in the Mages' Guild will make you nearly invincible very fast. Alchemy is hilariously easy to break the game with, might even be easier than it was with Morrowind.
7. In-game economy is retarded and borderline dysfunctional.
8. AI is spectacularly stupid. Babysitting friendly AI during certain quests is a chore.
9. Few things you can do, if ANYTHING, feel genuinely consequential to the game world.
10. The plot goes from "this might be interesting" to "wet fart in an elevator" in record time.
11. Character models are usually pretty hideous, even when they're not supposed to be.
12. Sidequests are uninspired, usually, and it's generally more fun to just run around the countryside and screw around.
13. A lot of the dialogue ranges from "meh" to "did a fucking Downie write this shit?"
14. Spellcraft is so significantly downgraded from Morrowind in terms of "fun things you can do with it" that unless you are powergaming like a motherfucker there's almost no point in screwing with it.
15. Vanilla Oblivion has SEVERE optimization issues.
16. Unkillable NPCs. Mostly-unnecessary method of idiot-proofing an idiotic game. Meanwhile, there are quest-related NPCs who are NOT essential-flagged and will get murked by random Oblivion gates, because fuck you Beth doesn't have to be consistent.
 
Self-Ejected

Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
Sigh. It's really unfortunate (however understandable) that people don't want (or even try!) to look past vanilla Oblivion.

Of course vanilla Oblivion is a steaming pile of.

Properly modded Oblivion is a whole different beast.
Why bother modding the hell out of it when I can just play SOMETHING ELSE?
 

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