Why is Gothic series so culty?

[Arbiter]

Because for its time, Gothic 1 and 2 were groundbreaking games.
Today we see them as these old games with crappy graphics and animations but back then nothing else could compete.

They were decent games, but hardly groundbreaking.

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

3D graphics with third person perspective - implemented in Tomb Raider (1996)

Action RPG - made popular by Diablo (you guessed it, in 1996)

Interactive world - forging weapons, cooking - Ultima series had that a decade earlier.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

G1-2 and R1 have great exploration and great world design (most open-world crpg designers would benefit from being regularly beaten over the head with a copy of G1 or R1 until they understand that quality>quantity), lot's of cool attention to detail that you'd be hard-pressed to find in any other game (things like skill-learning dialogues or pickpocketing dialogues) and are also p. much a gaming unicorn in certain mechanical aspects (like having a collecting/crafting system that is actually fun and genuinely useful, imagine that).

 

[Darth Roxor]

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

Are you fishing for that retard of the year award?

Amazing open world in Daggerfall made of copypasted empty wilderness stretching for hours upon hours.

 

[luj1]

They were decent games, but hardly groundbreaking

Agreed. There was plenty of better stuff to play. It was the RPG Renaissance after all.

 

[Arbiter]

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

Are you fishing for that retard of the year award?

Amazing open world in Daggerfall made of copypasted empty wilderness stretching for hours upon hours.

Daggerfall was not the only free roaming game released before Gothic.

More examples of games combining elements of Gothic:
Outcast (1999) - combines free roaming with third person perspective graphics, though it is obviously not an RPG.
Crusaders of Might and Magic (1999) - action RPG with TPP graphics and non-interactive dialogue. It lacks the free roaming asect of Gothic, but at least it is not gated by MOBs that you can only defeat after reaching a certain level.

What was so groundbreaking again?

EDIT: fixed a typo

 

[Wunderbar]

Because for its time, Gothic 1 and 2 were groundbreaking games.
Today we see them as these old games with crappy graphics and animations but back then nothing else could compete.

They were decent games, but hardly groundbreaking.

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

3D graphics with third person perspective - implemented in Tomb Raider (1996)

Action RPG - made popular by Diablo (you guessed it, in 1996)

Interactive world - forging weapons, cooking - Ultima series had that a decade earlier.

which game combined all of those elements first?

 

[Arbiter]

Are you fishing for that retard of the year award?

Look at the list of people that are ignoring you. You may not have reached Kruno's level, but you are getting there.

 

[Arbiter]

Because for its time, Gothic 1 and 2 were groundbreaking games.
Today we see them as these old games with crappy graphics and animations but back then nothing else could compete.

They were decent games, but hardly groundbreaking.

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

3D graphics with third person perspective - implemented in Tomb Raider (1996)

Action RPG - made popular by Diablo (you guessed it, in 1996)

Interactive world - forging weapons, cooking - Ultima series had that a decade earlier.

which game combined all of those elements first?

Copy pasting elements from other games is not innovation.

Action RPGs like Diablo 2 also feature some degree of free roaming (areas within a single act do not always have to be traveresed in a specific order), access to certain areas is gated by the difficulty of mobs (just like in Gothic), there is a crafting system, skills, attributes, twitch combat and, admittedly, a simpler dialogue system. The move to 3D was a natural evolution of the industry, it's not like Piranha Bytes invented 3D engines. In fact, Diablo 2 was the last high profile 2D release that I remember.

 

[Wunderbar]

Are you seriously arguing that Gothic is just like Diablo, but in 3D?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Daggerfall was not the only free roaming game released before Gothic.

"Gothic can't match Daggerfall!!!"

"Are you stupid, Daggerfall's open world is a sham."

"WELL THERE WERE OTHER OPEN WORLD GAMES TOO"

 

[Arbiter]

Are you seriously arguing that Gothic is just like Diablo, but in 3D?

It is an action RPG in 3D that did not bring anything new to the table.

 

[Arbiter]

"WELL THERE WERE OTHER OPEN WORLD GAMES TOO"

Do I need to explain to you what "groundbreaking" means?

 

[Darth Roxor]

"WELL THERE WERE OTHER OPEN WORLD GAMES TOO"

Do I need to explain to you what "groundbreaking" means?

Maybe you should first stop backpedalling.

 

[Arbiter]

"WELL THERE WERE OTHER OPEN WORLD GAMES TOO"

Do I need to explain to you what "groundbreaking" means?

Maybe you should first stop backpedalling.

I am not arguing whether Daggerfall or Gothic did open world better. I am arguing that Gothic was not groundbreaking.

 

[Wunderbar]

Gothic might've not been influential in the grand scheme of things, but it did innovate by implementing Ultima-like formula in full 3D (Ultima Ascension doesn't count).

Can you list any 3d action rpgs with open world, full voice acting, day-night cycle, advanced AI (NPCs with schedules and ability to wander the world, critters with different patterns, etc)? Bethesda only managed to reach the advanced AI stage with Oblivion.

 

[Konjad]

Because for its time, Gothic 1 and 2 were groundbreaking games.
Today we see them as these old games with crappy graphics and animations but back then nothing else could compete.

They were decent games, but hardly groundbreaking.

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

3D graphics with third person perspective - implemented in Tomb Raider (1996)

Action RPG - made popular by Diablo (you guessed it, in 1996)

Interactive world - forging weapons, cooking - Ultima series had that a decade earlier.

Which of these games had a smith working in his smithy? With animations of all basic tasks that you would do at such a job? Then resting somewhere in the evening, before going to sleep at his hut?
Which of these games had a guy peeing at the corner? Or NPCs talking to each other in the background?
Which other games at the time had animals hunting other animals?
How many games at the time had storylines in which most of the part was some low level politics, and people just doing their business? With the main character just wanting to get out of the prison camp?

No, in your mind the static NPCs standing in one place all the time awaiting to talk to the player, so he can save the world later, and traverse through auto-generated generic wastelands with static enemies just waiting there for the player, or a bunch of dungeons with enemies waiting there (what would they even do there in reality lmao) for the player to appear so they can run at him, are superior to a world that is not special, but just feels real.

Yeah, you're just not the type of a person to enjoy such things, we get it, but arguing that Gothic is shit because some things it did were already done is some other games is... well, fucking corona newfag.

 

[Ryzer]

Bethesda only managed to reach the advanced AI stage with Oblivion.

lol

 

[Reinhardt]

To my shame (or luck?) I never played Gothic games. What is there so special in them that I wouldn't find in other RPGs?

i played them and still don't know.

 

[Wunderbar]

Bethesda only managed to reach the advanced AI stage with Oblivion.

lol

you can laugh all you want, but no one really tried to do the same thing ever after (maybe except for a bunch of indies). Even Bethesda's own later attempts were significantly watered down.

 

[Konjad]

Bethesda only managed to reach the advanced AI stage with Oblivion.

lol

you can laugh all you want, but no one really tried to do the same thing ever after (maybe except for a bunch of indies). Even Bethesda's own later attempts were significantly watered down.

Stalker

 

[Lokiamis]

Being beaten in combat and then robbed in Gothic is one of the most memorable experiences I have playing video games. I don't understand why more games don't have consequences for losing a fight besides reloading until you win. It gave me a reason to hate a character and seek revenge (that I wouldn't be able to achieve without accepting the loss and spending several hours improving my skills), influenced my decision when it came to choosing a faction, and shaped how I treated other NPCs.

 

[Ladonna]

Watching an invincible Sekob fight a skeleton never gets old.

 

[boluch]

It simulates life very well. You start off as a nobody, relentlessly bullied by figures of authority. Then you level up and come back to the place where you were bullied and kill everyone.

 

[turkishronin]

In Gothic you can summon demons and golems to kill half a city and somehow no one will blame you for it even though you summoned them out in the open. But yeah there's an NPC peeing around the corner and you can sweep the floor with a broom.
Morrowind mogs this eurojank easily.

 

[Konjad]

Being beaten in combat and then robbed in Gothic is one of the most memorable experiences I have playing video games. I don't understand why more games don't have consequences for losing a fight besides reloading until you win. It gave me a reason to hate a character and seek revenge (that I wouldn't be able to achieve without accepting the loss and spending several hours improving my skills), influenced my decision when it came to choosing a faction, and shaped how I treated other NPCs.

Yeah, in other games any minor violence leads to fight to death situations. Accidentally pushed an NPC, stole a mug or hit him with your fist? NOW YOU DIE, SCUM.

Meanwhile in Gothic not only combat with NPCs rarely resulted in fight to the death (murdering someone was a crime, even if you were fighting), but also was a 'solution' to quests too, i.e. in Arena attempting to fight a good fighter and losing still was seen as a success to the arena master just for trying...

in any other RPG you'd have to fight, win and kill.

 

[Konjad]

In Gothic you can summon demons and golems to kill half a city and somehow no one will blame you for it even though you summoned them out in the open. But yeah there's an NPC peeing around the corner and you can sweep the floor with a broom.
Morrowind mogs this eurojank easily.

ok people, there are some limitations to consequences developers didn't think about and not everything is perfect. I admit, Gothic is now utter shit and does not compare to the master-crafted morrowind or diablo that had everything thought-through. The topic is now closed, thank you for your input.

BTW I thought if NPCs saw you summoning monsters they would attack you too? I don't really remember though.

 

[Wunderbar]

you can laugh all you want, but no one really tried to do the same thing ever after (maybe except for a bunch of indies). Even Bethesda's own later attempts were significantly watered down.

Stalker

sort of, but Stalker games had way less social interactions between NPCs, and barely any towns.

 

[Ryzer]

you can laugh all you want, but no one really tried to do the same thing ever after (maybe except for a bunch of indies). Even Bethesda's own later attempts were significantly watered down.

Stalker

sort of, but Stalker games had way less social interactions between NPCs, and barely any towns.

 

[Konjad]

you can laugh all you want, but no one really tried to do the same thing ever after (maybe except for a bunch of indies). Even Bethesda's own later attempts were significantly watered down.

Stalker

sort of, but Stalker games had way less social interactions between NPCs, and barely any towns.

Less but still had, and it also attempted to simulate life, so to speak.

Oblibion was a hilarious start, but it could develop into something... but of course they dropped the ball. Bethesda has crap developers in general, and probably they don't pay much so non-management people don't stay there for long time (that's just my guess, I didn't check, but it's a standard in gaming industry), so likely there was nobody who could further develop the AI.

Stalker had the AI done by what, mostly one guy that constantly worked on it? And it was supposed to be in Stalker 2, but the guy got killed in Ukraine so we'll see how it goes.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

In Gothic you can summon demons and golems to kill half a city and somehow no one will blame you for it even though you summoned them out in the open. But yeah there's an NPC peeing around the corner and you can sweep the floor with a broom.
Morrowind mogs this eurojank easily.

Morrowind NPCs are used to sights of retards jumping up and down a slope for 4h straight or running head first into a wall until late night and not giving a single fuck so them suddenly being fussy about demon summoning or petty theft is arguably less realistic. Also, they would logically all move abroad to play NBA seeing how easy it is to get acrobatics to 100 so the world doesn't feel very immersive.