Why is Gothic series so culty?

[Arbiter]

Which of these games had a smith working in his smithy? With animations of all basic tasks that you would do at such a job? Then resting somewhere in the evening, before going to sleep at his hut?

Ultima 7 (1992) had daily NPC routines and a day and night cycle. NPCs were involved in daily tasks, for example bringing food to a tavern counter. I am sure however, that hardcore gamers like you do not play casual crap like Ultima.

Which of these games had a guy peeing at the corner?

Such innovation. Too bad it did not save Cyberpunk.

Or NPCs talking to each other in the background?

Even in Ultima NPCs shout random things in combat:

In Fallout 2, another casual crap that you never played, some NPCs will comment on player's power armor and refer to him/her as a "walking refrigerator".

Which other games at the time had animals hunting other animals?

LOL, even Doom (1993) has in-fighting. And it's not even an RPG.

How many games at the time had storylines in which most of the part was some low level politics, and people just doing their business?

Fallout 1 (1997), at least until you find the water chip.

The beginning of Dark Sun (1991), as you level in the arena, escape the gladiator pits and explore the world before beginning to amass an army for the final battle.

Yes, I know, I should be ashamed of playing those low brow games instead of glorious Gothic.

With the main character just wanting to get out of the prison camp?

All Elder Scrolls games.

No, in your mind the static NPCs standing in one place all the time awaiting to talk to the player, so he can save the world later, and traverse through auto-generated generic wastelands with static enemies just waiting there for the player, or a bunch of dungeons with enemies waiting there (what would they even do there in reality lmao) for the player to appear so they can run at him, are superior to a world that is not special, but just feels real.
Yeah, you're just not the type of a person to enjoy such things, we get it, but arguing that Gothic is shit

You critically failed the reading skill check. I never said that Gothic 1 is shit, in this thread I am arguing that it was not groundbreaking and in another thread I stated that Gothic 1 is one of the games that I liked in the past but do not intend to replay ever again.

because some things it did were already done is some other games is... well, fucking corona newfag.

Too bad I did not register an account 10 years earlier to discuss such CasualCodex Top RPG classics as Oblivion, Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol.

It's past 22:00 in Australia so there is a chance that Dark Underlord is still awake. Why won't you PM him and ask to ban me because I don't love Gothic 1.

Heck, you should ask admins to ban everyone who disagrees with your taste in games and all the filthy casuals that played Ultima 7. Only then will RPGCodex become a true free speech website.

 

[Cassar]

^ So Gothic took a lot of some of the best ideas that you could find in a number of other games but just one aspect or two, and proceeded to mix ALL of them into a coherent and fantastic product. Sounds like a win to me

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Lol, I thought that initial post about Tomb Raider and Diablo was dumb, but that ID games monster in-fights "point" takes the cake

Fucking comparisons, how do they work.

 

[Arbiter]

Being beaten in combat and then robbed in Gothic is one of the most memorable experiences I have playing video games. I don't understand why more games don't have consequences for losing a fight besides reloading until you win. It gave me a reason to hate a character and seek revenge (that I wouldn't be able to achieve without accepting the loss and spending several hours improving my skills), influenced my decision when it came to choosing a faction, and shaped how I treated other NPCs.

Yeah, in other games any minor violence leads to fight to death situations. Accidentally pushed an NPC, stole a mug or hit him with your fist? NOW YOU DIE, SCUM.

Meanwhile in Gothic not only combat with NPCs rarely resulted in fight to the death (murdering someone was a crime, even if you were fighting), but also was a 'solution' to quests too, i.e. in Arena attempting to fight a good fighter and losing still was seen as a success to the arena master just for trying...

in any other RPG you'd have to fight, win and kill.

Have you ever played any proper RPGs?

There is a boxing match in Fallout 2 (1998) that you can lose without dying: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Become_a_Prizefighter

 

[turkishronin]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

 

[Dadd]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

What flaw

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

To my shame (or luck?) I never played Gothic games. What is there so special in them that I wouldn't find in other RPGs?

Believable world design, the only true heir in this departement to Ultima VII in my opinion (even though Ultima VII still goes a bit further). Plus gritty, down-to earth feeling most RPGs completely miss.

 

[†††]

Getting into pointless debates about muh innovashun is a trap (Codex 101: Never negotiate with terrorists, aka Bethesdrones). All that matters is if the game is good, if it managed to achieve its goal at the time and whether it's still enjoyable to replay.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

Well at least in Gothic I there was an explanation for it (prison). In GII there were enough of them - alas no children (the only immersion breaking aspect in Gothic II imho). And Gothic III, that utter abomination, was ridiculous, there were about 2-3 women in the whole world.

 

[Fargus]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

Well at least in Gothic I there was an explanation for it (prison). In GII there were enough of them - alas no children (the only immersion breaking aspect in Gothic II imho). And Gothic III, that utter abomination, was ridiculous, there were about 2-3 women in the whole world.

To avoid getting mass raped by my people women of gothic 3 had to learn to hide well.

 

[Konjad]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

Well at least in Gothic I there was an explanation for it (prison). In GII there were enough of them - alas no children (the only immersion breaking aspect in Gothic II imho). And Gothic III, that utter abomination, was ridiculous, there were about 2-3 women in the whole world.

Kinda like there is literally no ports. Khorinis had the only one.

But let's not mention G3 in here, we all know it's utter garbage and you can write essays how bad it is, which we have dedicated topic for.

 

[Konjad]

Which of these games had a smith working in his smithy? With animations of all basic tasks that you would do at such a job? Then resting somewhere in the evening, before going to sleep at his hut?

Ultima 7 (1992) had daily NPC routines and a day and night cycle. NPCs were involved in daily tasks, for example bringing food to a tavern counter. I am sure however, that hardcore gamers like you do not play casual crap like Ultima.

Which of these games had a guy peeing at the corner?

Such innovation. Too bad it did not save Cyberpunk.

Or NPCs talking to each other in the background?

Even in Ultima NPCs shout random things in combat:

In Fallout 2, another casual crap that you never played, some NPCs will comment on player's power armor and refer to him/her as a "walking refrigerator".

Which other games at the time had animals hunting other animals?

LOL, even Doom (1993) has in-fighting. And it's not even an RPG.

How many games at the time had storylines in which most of the part was some low level politics, and people just doing their business?

Fallout 1 (1997), at least until you find the water chip.

The beginning of Dark Sun (1991), as you level in the arena, escape the gladiator pits and explore the world before beginning to amass an army for the final battle.

Yes, I know, I should be ashamed of playing those low brow games instead of glorious Gothic.

With the main character just wanting to get out of the prison camp?

All Elder Scrolls games.

No, in your mind the static NPCs standing in one place all the time awaiting to talk to the player, so he can save the world later, and traverse through auto-generated generic wastelands with static enemies just waiting there for the player, or a bunch of dungeons with enemies waiting there (what would they even do there in reality lmao) for the player to appear so they can run at him, are superior to a world that is not special, but just feels real.
Yeah, you're just not the type of a person to enjoy such things, we get it, but arguing that Gothic is shit

You critically failed the reading skill check. I never said that Gothic 1 is shit, in this thread I am arguing that it was not groundbreaking and in another thread I stated that Gothic 1 is one of the games that I liked in the past but do not intend to replay ever again.

because some things it did were already done is some other games is... well, fucking corona newfag.

Too bad I did not register an account 10 years earlier to discuss such CasualCodex Top RPG classics as Oblivion, Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol.

It's past 22:00 in Australia so there is a chance that Dark Underlord is still awake. Why won't you PM him and ask to ban me because I don't love Gothic 1.

Heck, you should ask admins to ban everyone who disagrees with your taste in games and all the filthy casuals that played Ultima 7. Only then will RPGCodex become a true free speech website.

Being beaten in combat and then robbed in Gothic is one of the most memorable experiences I have playing video games. I don't understand why more games don't have consequences for losing a fight besides reloading until you win. It gave me a reason to hate a character and seek revenge (that I wouldn't be able to achieve without accepting the loss and spending several hours improving my skills), influenced my decision when it came to choosing a faction, and shaped how I treated other NPCs.

Yeah, in other games any minor violence leads to fight to death situations. Accidentally pushed an NPC, stole a mug or hit him with your fist? NOW YOU DIE, SCUM.

Meanwhile in Gothic not only combat with NPCs rarely resulted in fight to the death (murdering someone was a crime, even if you were fighting), but also was a 'solution' to quests too, i.e. in Arena attempting to fight a good fighter and losing still was seen as a success to the arena master just for trying...

in any other RPG you'd have to fight, win and kill.

Have you ever played any proper RPGs?

There is a boxing match in Fallout 2 (1998) that you can lose without dying: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Become_a_Prizefighter

You are so severely retarded it's flabbergasting.

 

[Arthandas]

Being beaten in combat and then robbed in Gothic is one of the most memorable experiences I have playing video games. I don't understand why more games don't have consequences for losing a fight besides reloading until you win. It gave me a reason to hate a character and seek revenge (that I wouldn't be able to achieve without accepting the loss and spending several hours improving my skills), influenced my decision when it came to choosing a faction, and shaped how I treated other NPCs.

Yeah, in other games any minor violence leads to fight to death situations. Accidentally pushed an NPC, stole a mug or hit him with your fist? NOW YOU DIE, SCUM.

Meanwhile in Gothic not only combat with NPCs rarely resulted in fight to the death (murdering someone was a crime, even if you were fighting), but also was a 'solution' to quests too, i.e. in Arena attempting to fight a good fighter and losing still was seen as a success to the arena master just for trying...

in any other RPG you'd have to fight, win and kill.

Have you ever played any proper RPGs?

There is a boxing match in Fallout 2 (1998) that you can lose without dying: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Become_a_Prizefighter

You're comparing a normal gameplay element to a scripted event.

Fucking comparisons, how do they work.

He really has no fucking idea xD

 

[toro]

To me, Gothic 1 and 2 are one of those games that don't really have any relatives, no "spiritual successors", games that continue the tradition or try to emulate its design philosophy etc.
With a game like Baldur's gate, you'll find plenty of games like it. You have Icewind dale, Pillars, Pathfinder, Tyranny, Neverwinter nights, Dragon age etc. Sure, none of them are as great, but they scratch the BG/cRPG/D&D itch.

With Gothic you have nothing else. Even PB abandoned most of what made the first two games great (with the exception of risen 1). The only games that come somewhat close to Gothic is Kingdom Come (and even that is a stretch) and recently Archolos. I guess some of the immersive sims do the trick (for me only Arx Fatalis) but that's it.

So here I am. Sitting at my computer, getting ready to fire up Gothic 2 and start a new playthrough for the 32nd fucking time, and you know what? I'll still enjoy the fuck out of it. Except maybe I'll skip the last chapter this time around.

I also feel the same way about VtMB.

Also, Morrowind sucks (never played it)

Definetly try Ghost of a Tale.

Optionally try Mars: War Logs or The Technomancer.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Gothic is an RPG that does open world well. Instead of having a big world filled with pointless garbage just to fill space every corner of the map is hand-crafted, or at least it feels that way. For example Oblivion has 9 cities but they are mostly empty and kinda samey except for the imperial capital which doesn't have that much going for it anyway. In Gothic 2 there's only one town but there's something interesting and unique on every corner. Every NPC trader in a proper character. There are some other settlements later in the game but they aren't proper towns. I've played Gothic 2 to completion once 10 years ago and I still remember general layout of Khorrinis and many of it's random inhabitants. Meanwhile from I barely remember anything about random Elder Scrolls cities.

 

[catfood]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

That's what makes the games so realistic. All the women are either slaves, like in Gothic 1, or maids, farmers, street vendors, etc. in the second game. No stronk independant wahmynz bullshit. The only unfortunate exception is the leader of the thieves guild in Gothic 2, but other than that the first two games are a no-thots-allowed delight.

 

[turkishronin]

No one points out the actual, real flaw of Gothic series which is the shortage of female characters.

That's what makes the games so realistic. All the women are either slaves, like in Gothic 1, or maids, farmers, street vendors, etc. in the second game. No stronk independant wahmynz bullshit. The only unfortunate exception is the leader of the thieves guild in Gothic 2, but other than that the first two games are a no-thots-allowed delight.

Harvesting Turnips is also realistic it doesn't mean it's interesting.

 

[Jelerak]

Well, thank you all for such a fruitful discussion. I'm still not convinced though that it is a must-play, it looks rather like 'the child of its own time' born in some favorable moment in some favorable circumstances. For me, after everyhting I've read about it, it still seems to lack some uniqueness except for 'unique' (?) ('unique' for that time) combination of many not-already-new and not-already-unique traits. In other words it seems that to follow the cult I had to play it when it came out.

So, it seems that Gothic games are not from that kind of games that can be played in any age of your life, no matter how many years after their release, to become a fan of sort. Maybe, I will skip it then.

 

[Zlaja]

Too bad I did not register an account 10 years earlier to discuss such CasualCodex Top RPG classics as Oblivion, Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol.

Well, Oblivion is certainly a special game around here, considering it's probably the Codex's most hated game of all time. Hell, many posters who joined in mid 2000's (myself included) mainly did so just to rant about just how much they/we hated the game, the gaming press that gushed about it, and it's fanboys.

The only game that can compete in this category is another Bethesda classic, Fallout 3.

 

[Harthwain]

They were decent games, but hardly groundbreaking.

(Semi)-open world - does not come close to Daggerfall (1996)

3D graphics with third person perspective - implemented in Tomb Raider (1996)

Action RPG - made popular by Diablo (you guessed it, in 1996)

Interactive world - forging weapons, cooking - Ultima series had that a decade earlier.

Trying to present Gothic as a check-list is not going to work.

Yes, Daggerfall has a big world, but it's very empty. World in Gothic is seamless and 3D, but there are bigger selling points to it than that - the size of the world in Gothic is limited by the Barrier. On one hand it is supposed to set a limit to how big the map can be. On another, it works very well as a narrative device, reinforcing the feeling of you being literally trapped in a penal colony. Then you have a magical ore serving as currency (because that's the only thing that has value as it is being traded for goods with the outside world) and other prisoners separated into different factions.

Going back to Daggerfall's world being big and empty: Gothic's world is 3D and open, but it is also very well filled-in. There are almost no spots where you can't reach on the map and all of them make sense. Gothic strikes perfect balance between the size of the map to explore and the content. It's also very well segregated (wolves in the forest are way easier than areas filled with Orcs, for example). By the way, the map is perfect for navigation in Gothic - you see what is important to know where you are and where to go, but the areas aren't so detailed to remove the aspect of exploring the places. It's a very good orientation tool, not GPS a'la Grand Theft Auto.

I wouldn't put too much stock into Gothic being "Action RPG" as the reason for its popularity. To me the main draw was how the setting fit very well together with the overall gameplay and how down-to-earth it was, despite having obvious fantasy elements. Gothic manages to be gritty, without being grimdark. It's also very natural every step of the way. You pull the sword next to a guard? You will get a warning before he cuts you down and robs you to "teach you a lesson". If you do that again he'll kill you. You run into somebody's house? He will yell for you to get the fuck out. Being able to cook your meal was a nice cherry on the top by comparison. Back then it was amazing to see something like this in a 3D video game as it made the game feel very much alive.

Gothic 2 was pretty much "more of the same", so no wonder people liked it too.

 

[Arthandas]

Too bad I did not register an account 10 years earlier to discuss such CasualCodex Top RPG classics as Oblivion, Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol.

Well, Oblivion is certainly a special game around here, considering it's probably the Codex's most hated game of all time. Hell, many posters who joined in mid 2000's (myself included) mainly did so just to rant about just how much they/we hated the game, the gaming press that gushed about it, and it's fanboys.

The only game that can compete in this category is another Bethesda classic, Fallout 3.

I don't know, the current meta is to hate on previous Codex GOTYs like Disco Elysium or Witcher 3 xD

 

[Arbiter]

Gothic might've not been influential in the grand scheme of things, but it did innovate by implementing Ultima-like formula in full 3D (Ultima Ascension doesn't count).

Can you list any 3d action rpgs with open world, full voice acting, day-night cycle, advanced AI (NPCs with schedules and ability to wander the world, critters with different patterns, etc)? Bethesda only managed to reach the advanced AI stage with Oblivion.

3D was not groundbreaking in 2001.

Codex members should also know that moving an established formula to 3D is not always a good idea. Do you remember the outrage on NMA Fallout and Codex in mid 2000s when it was revealed that Bethesda acquired rights to Fallout IP and started production of a 3D real time Fallout game? Todd was almost lynched by Fallout community for abandoning isometric camera and TBC. And yes, "Oblivion with guns" turned out even worse then Fallout fans expected.

 

[Zlaja]

I don't know, the current meta is to hate on previous Codex GOTYs like Disco Elysium or Witcher 3 xD

That's just the 'current thing'. The hate for Oblivion & Fallout 3 is eternal.

 

[Arbiter]

You're comparing a normal gameplay element to a scripted event.

Everything was "scripted" in that era, i.e. NPCs could only perform routines defined by programmers, whether through state machines or behavior trees. Ability to plan independently given an objective was introduced later as Goal Oriented Action Programming, F.E.A.R is touted as the first game that implemented it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.E.A.R._(video_game)#AI

AI in the modern meaning (e.g. neutral networks) only became mainstream in the last decade or so.

 

[Arbiter]

You are so severely retarded it's flabbergasting.

I am sure that you are butt hurt because I revealed your "expertise" in this thread. You must be one of Codex pozzers who claim to have played all Goldbox games hundreds of times, but at the same time you do not even know what game technology was capable of in 90s.

A word of advice: be careful what you post in your "General purpose Linux thread". I intend to read it and if I find out that are posting about stuff that you have no clue about I will not hesitate to call your BS again.

 

[hivemind]

western faggots will never get it

stance on the gothic series is a literal whiteness litmus test

 

[Darth Roxor]

A word of advice: be careful what you post in your "General purpose Linux thread". I intend to read it and if I find out that are posting about stuff that you have no clue about I will not hesitate to call your BS again.