Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

[MerchantKing]

Cant wait to replay this masterpiece

Consider using a weapon you actually have a high skill in and not picking a fight with a random ordinator with a level 1 character. Also, you'll die pretty fast to them if you don't edit your agility score up into the 10000's like the guy who posted the video did.

 

[jackofshadows]

It's not about understanding it, it's about how bizarre, shit and boring it is. It's like playing say Wizardry solo. 6 times less fun. Action/RPG w/o action moves, RPG w/o interesting RPG combat choices. Worst of both genres.

 

[JarlFrank]

It's a perfectly servicable system that gets the job done, and due to how relatively fast it is compared to other games with shit boring combat, it doesn't get in the way.
Also, no interesting RPG combat choices? Have you tried playing a mage? Some of the BEST custom spellmaking in any RPG ever. You won't find anything else that lets you create such varied offensive spells as Morrowind.

 

[jackofshadows]

Have you tried playing a mage? Some of the BEST custom spellmaking in any RPG ever. You won't find anything else that lets you create such varied offensive spells as Morrowind.

I have. Unfortunately, it's all theoretical wank and nothing more since applying to the base game - well let's just forget about that and to the DLCs - there're only bloated single targets anyway. Let's not asscribe to the game something it doesn't have (it has very little).

 

[Just Locus]

Consider using a weapon you actually have a high skill in and not picking a fight with a random ordinator with a level 1 character. [...]

I don't mean to poison the well here, but most people who criticize Morrowind's combat, either in video essays or online discussions, almost always view it from the lens of the early game, y'know, that period where things are usually the roughest?

It's always:

• fighting a rat (bonus points if it's in the Ascadian Isles)
• zero fatigue management
• fighting with a weapon you're not proficient in (short blades)
• running into fights head-on instead of choosing when to come back later when you're stronger
• fast attacking blindly (Daedric War Axe for example does ONE damage when you spam it, and 44 when you charge the swing)
• low weapon skills

Hit-chance stops becoming a problem once you reach levels 4-6 for most characters. Unlike Oblivion & Skyrim, you can easily differentiate a bad character in Morrowind, from a good one. You're only doing yourself a disservice by installing a 100% hit-chance mod because the world wasn't created for you to be hitting shit 100% of the time constantly.

 

[NecroLord]

Consider using a weapon you actually have a high skill in and not picking a fight with a random ordinator with a level 1 character. [...]

I don't mean to poison the well here, but most people who criticize Morrowind's combat, either in video essays or online discussions, almost always view it from the lens of the early game, y'know, that period where things are usually the roughest?

It's always:

• fighting a rat (bonus points if it's in the Ascadian Isles)
• zero fatigue management
• fighting with a weapon you're not proficient in (short blades)
• running into fights head-on instead of choosing when to come back later when you're stronger
• fast attacking blindly (Daedric War Axe for example does ONE damage when you spam it, and 44 when you charge the swing)
• low weapon skills

Hit-chance stops becoming a problem once you reach levels 4-6 for most characters. Unlike Oblivion & Skyrim, you can easily differentiate a bad character in Morrowind, from a good one. You're only doing yourself a disservice by installing a 100% hit-chance mod because the world wasn't created for you to be hitting shit 100% of the time constantly.

Dealing with fatigue really shouldn't be a problem.
Later when you have more gold, just put a custom Constant Restore Fatigue 3 or 4 points on an item of your choosing (I usually put it on a Exquisite shirt or pants). That way you will always be at full fatigue and maximum performance (fatigue also plays a role in calculating the success rate of your actions - casting spells, hitting an enemy in combat, etc.)

As for installing mods that allow you to hit with 100 percent accuracy, don't do that people.
It's scummy.

 

[Hag]

• fast attacking blindly (Daedric War Axe for example does ONE damage when you spam it, and 44 when you charge the swing)

This is the worst culprit in my opinion. Having damage change based on how long you click and which way you move your mouse was a terrible and confusing gimmick. Even a random damage roll would have been better.

 

[NecroLord]

• fast attacking blindly (Daedric War Axe for example does ONE damage when you spam it, and 44 when you charge the swing)

This is the worst culprit in my opinion. Having damage change based on how long you click and which way you move your mouse was a terrible and confusing gimmick. Even a random damage roll would have been better.

Doesn't the option to "Always use best attack" fix that?
Or do you still have to click all the way for the weapon to be drawn fully?

 

[NecroLord]

• fast attacking blindly (Daedric War Axe for example does ONE damage when you spam it, and 44 when you charge the swing)

This is the worst culprit in my opinion. Having damage change based on how long you click and which way you move your mouse was a terrible and confusing gimmick. Even a random damage roll would have been better.

Doesn't the option to "Always use best attack" fix that?
Or do you still have to click all the way for the weapon to be drawn fully?

Isn't that just for the attack direction, i.e. it doesn't matter which one of WASD you have pressed while attacking?

Yeah, it is.
So you still have to click the mouse longer to do full weapon damage (this is especially true for battleaxes and warhammers).

 

[grimer]

ppl focus way too much on the action component of morrowind's combat when its underlying rpg elements are also lacking. for example:

• no physical damage types and resistances such as slashing, bludgeoning and piercing
• very minor stat differences between most weapon types (e.g. compare between axes/maces/longswords). only weapons that stand out are spears (reach), staves (enchant capacity) and daggers/shortswords (attack speed)
• no critical hit mechanics or proper locational damage (crippled limbs)
• poor encounter design - vast majority of creatures just hit you in melee with stronger ones dealing more dmg and having more hp. they tried adding flair to some of them but it was negligible (e.g. alit poison bite only does like 5 pts of dmg, same goes for shalk fire breath) also lack of hostile npc enemies besides ashlanders who all use crummy weapons anyway like chitin clubs that deal no dmg. needs more enemies that apply debuffs at least like bonewalkers and blighted creatures
• useless debuffs - paralyze invalidates everything else and is easily obtained either as a weapon enchantment or as a spell shortly after you start the game. there's no progression like starting with a slow spell first and you can't even call it metagaming since every player will most likely check out the fighters/mages guild in balmora and browse what they have for sale.

Having damage change based on how long you click and which way you move your mouse was a terrible and confusing gimmick

different attack types are also a farce since you just pick the best one and spam it and there's even a toggle for that. you can't for example sweep someone's legs with your spear to knock them down and make them easier to hit, thrust with your sword to pierce armor better or side slash with your axe instead of chopping to cleave multiple enemies.

 

[Just Locus]

no physical damage types and resistances such as slashing, bludgeoning and piercing

It has thrust, slash, chop, and marksman (ranged weapons) and Blunt weapons have their stats.

very minor stat differences between most weapon types (e.g. compare between axes/maces/longswords). only weapons that stand out are spears (reach), staves (enchant capacity) and daggers/shortswords (attack speed)

Axes are good for chopping, maces/warhammers have some of the best damage in the game (excluding enchantments) and you already covered the rest. Hand-to-hand is also excellent as it targets an enemy's fatigue rather than their health, which you can only damage after the opponent gets knocked out.

poor encounter design - vast majority of creatures just hit you in melee with stronger ones dealing more dmg and having more hp. [...]

What did you expect exactly? You find these enemies in their appropriate locations and Morrowind's combat is designed for one-on-one encounters.

useless debuffs - paralyze invalidates everything else and is easily obtained either as a weapon enchantment or as a spell shortly after you start the game.

You can resist Paralyze if you have high Willpower, which most mages will have, alongside some Warrior classes because it governs your max fatigue. You can also reflect/absorb it with a spell that costs 10 gold each.

 

[NecroLord]

ppl focus way too much on the action component of morrowind's combat when its underlying rpg elements are also lacking. for example:

• no physical damage types and resistances such as slashing, bludgeoning and piercing
• very minor stat differences between most weapon types (e.g. compare between axes/maces/longswords). only weapons that stand out are spears (reach), staves (enchant capacity) and daggers/shortswords (attack speed)
• no critical hit mechanics or proper locational damage (crippled limbs)
• poor encounter design - vast majority of creatures just hit you in melee with stronger ones dealing more dmg and having more hp. they tried adding flair to some of them but it was negligible (e.g. alit poison bite only does like 5 pts of dmg, same goes for shalk fire breath) also lack of hostile npc enemies besides ashlanders who all use crummy weapons anyway like chitin clubs that deal no dmg. needs more enemies that apply debuffs at least like bonewalkers and blighted creatures
• useless debuffs - paralyze invalidates everything else and is easily obtained either as a weapon enchantment or as a spell shortly after you start the game. there's no progression like starting with a slow spell first and you can't even call it metagaming since every player will most likely check out the fighters/mages guild in balmora and browse what they have for sale.

Having damage change based on how long you click and which way you move your mouse was a terrible and confusing gimmick

different attack types are also a farce since you just pick the best one and spam it and there's even a toggle for that. you can't for example sweep someone's legs with your spear to knock them down and make them easier to hit, thrust with your sword to pierce armor better or side slash with your axe instead of chopping to cleave multiple enemies.

Strength rules in Morrowind.
Just pump that Strength up and beat enemies mercilessly into a pulp.
Not to mention you'll be able to carry more shit.

 

[grimer]

It has thrust, slash, chop, and marksman (ranged weapons) and Blunt weapons have their stats.

those are all cosmetic, just different animations and text labels. what i mean is enemies being more resistant/vulnerable to different types of physical damage like how in other rpgs skeletons resist slashing attacks from your sword but are vulnerable to bludgeoning attacks from a mace. makes each weapon more distinct.

Hand-to-hand is also excellent as it targets an enemy's fatigue rather than their health, which you can only damage after the opponent gets knocked out.

yea hand-to-hand also has its own niche. its especially good with sneak because sneak attacks multiply the fatigue damage as well so you can almost knock out most enemies with 1 punch. i got very far on my permadeath playthrough larping as a monk.

What did you expect exactly? You find these enemies in their appropriate locations and Morrowind's combat is designed for one-on-one encounters.

make creatures more dangerous for starters. npcs talk about how dangerous kagouti are in-game but they just hit slightly harder than nix hounds. nix hounds are supposed to hunt in packs but you fight like 1-2 of them vast majority of the time. fighting more enemies also incentivizes you to use spells/consumables etc. more often

You can resist Paralyze if you have high Willpower, which most mages will have, alongside some Warrior classes because it governs your max fatigue. You can also reflect/absorb it with a spell that costs 10 gold each.

paralyze is still the best debuff even against mages/warriors. silence is also resisted by willpower, every other debuff either has a negligible effect or costs way too much that you're better off spending your magicka on damaging spells instead and against enemies with reflect you just won't even bother casting debuffs.

 

[SixDead]

But is Morrowind a good musical?

 

[jackofshadows]

Thief's leader asks me to "put pressure on Hrundi in order to him betray his leaders in the Fighter's guild". While I'm a Master of said guild. This shit doesn't make a lick of sense lmao. Oh and he's also a nigger. What did they mean by that (c)

Fighter's guild last quests were ridiculous too.
- Please kill these three leaders
- Done (no member in the guild cares about that of course)
- Grats, now you're the new Master

 

[CHEMS]

Cant wait to replay this masterpiece

HOW COME MY 20 LONG SWORD BUILD CANT HIT A LVL 20 ORDINATOR?

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Ryzer]

The problem isn't about understanding the system, the problem is that even in the situation of understanding the system and hitting all the time combat remains boring as shit left-clicking spam.

And mage combat isn't much better with the player constantly pausing and switching spells during combat and then triggering the spell with a left-click.

 

[CHEMS]

Agilitylets will never learn

 

[Ryzer]

Agilitylets will never learn

In Daggerfall, speed affected combat speed which compensated lack of agility, they removed that in Morrowind for no reason.

 

[Falksi]

I can't fathom how retarded someone must be to make a build where they don't hit the enemy, even at a low level.

I'm just replaying it now, I'm level 2 with Spear levelled at 46, and my thrusts are hitting the majority of the time and doing big damage too.

 

[Harthwain]

I can't fathom how retarded someone must be to make a build where they don't hit the enemy, even at a low level.

Pretty sure this was done for the memes. You can see the enemy not being able to hit back, which isn't normal against a low level character.

 

[CHEMS]

I can't fathom how retarded someone must be to make a build where they don't hit the enemy, even at a low level.

Pretty sure this was done for the memes. You can see the enemy not being able to hit back, which isn't normal against a low level character.

Reminds me of the funniest way to play the game: stacking 100% sanctuary so you can't be touched by anyone except buffed out enemies like High Ordinators

 

[Ash]

Yup. That video is horseshit. Yeah, some fights when you're low level can drag on a bit (not necessarily a bad thing), but starting a fight with an Ordinator when you're low level you'll get your ass handed to you in about 10 seconds. When you're low level you're supposed to pick your battles and beat up rats etc, like a real RPG. Which are fights that typically don't last that long. Also, you take buffs that help you fight, and can train super low level skills at trainers for very cheap to avoid any excessive grind. If you're fighting an enemy that is very hard to hit, high HP, and puts you down fast, this means you're unprepared and should not be fighting this person. Stay in your lane for now.

Real games allow you to fail at them; to play them incorrectly. That's what filters pathetic nomies first and foremost, and is borderline an ancient lost concept these days of sellout mediocrity and dumbfuckery.

 

[jackofshadows]

The more I play (almost done with it I think) the less I understand Morrofags. I mean, yes - the setting is very nice as well as the worldbulding in general: books, lore and stuff but overall it's just another Bethesda game. How in the fuck one can simultaneously like this and dislike Oblivion or Skyrim? The same design principles all over except yeah I agree in some regards of course Morrowind's better: general writing (quite uneven though), fast-travel, level-scaling (although I doubt I will muster myself to experience the DLCs again since "back then").

To put it very bluntly: in Skyrim the game expects from you to clear and loot yet another nordic tomb with weak either draugrs or with buffed up draugrs(or whatever, don't remember the exact terms), in Morrowind the game expects from you to clear and loot yet another ancestors tomb with either cripple skeletons or skeleton champioins. The same fucking shit.

In conclusion: they really need a tag (reference to this thread).

 

[anvi]

Morrowind was less bad in 2003 or whenever it came out. It also resembles an RPG at least. It has some stats and religions and stuff. The later games are just retarded.

I probably would have liked Morrowind if it wasn't for me playing EQ first. I know this butthurts people but it's tough. They are similar games but one is far better, far bigger, far deeper, far more content, and was years earlier. It's a PC only masterpiece. 1000+ spells, you can fly through valleys and mountains. Huge variety of regions, deserts, swamps, misty forests, lava areas, frost areas. You slip on ice and slime. You get injured from falling. Everything has a weight, items, money, inventory stuff. Everything has a faction, everything responds to you based on what you do and what your race/religion is etc. The biggest and best dungeons I've ever seen in any game. The best enemy AI I've ever seen.

Thousands of mob types, not just all draugr and skeletons and wolves. EQ has thousands, they each have their own spell lists and abilities, their own resists and stats, etc. Strength, Stamina, Agility, Dexterity, Wisdom, Intelligence, Charisma, proper stats. Magic, poison, disease, cold, fire, curses are all separate magic types with separate resists. Hundreds of unique hand made items (not auto generated loot). Many with unique abilities. Blacksmithing, Brewing, Baking, Fishing, Fletching, Jewlcraft, Pottery, Research, Smithing, Tailoring, Tinkering, Alchemy, Poison Making. All in the game and fleshed out with full sets of components and stuff to level it all up and create unique items.

But best of all for me was the combat. And the music. I think I would have found Elder Scrolls games bland anyway but playing EQ first just makes them seem like overly basic console games.

Don't shoot the messenger. Go play P99 or something and learn what a good PC only RPG can do. You don't have to like everything about it but it does some things so good it puts single player action RPGs to shame.