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[WIP] Thirst, a Dragon Age mod focused on C&C

sea

inXile Entertainment
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I've just played around 10 minutes of two different origins, hitting menus constantly, and I can't make the crash occur there. Switching back to Thirst, crash occurs. Specifically, I can open and close, for example, inventory, fluently and without issues in the Origins, but doing it in Thirst often loads for just a bit (until said crash, obviously).

It's a CTD. I'm running ultimate edition from Steam, so it should auto-patch (and my .exe version is 1.05 according to the config tool).

EDIT: It seems from some googling this was a common problem years ago, so it's not your mod, despite my testing saying otherwise. I'll attempt to fix it on me lonesome, sorry to trouble you.
Can you tell me what size the z7 file you downloaded is? Should look like this:

thirst_v1_properties.png


I don't think the file upload was corrupt, but your download might be if it didn't work the first time around. You may be able to open the archive but the files themselves could be damaged. Try downloading from another Nexus server, and if possible use a program like Free Download Manager to help ensure download integrity.

Also, do you have any mods installed other than mine? if so, uninstall them (both overrides and in the Downloadable Content menu).

EDIT: I didn't see your edit, sorry. Uh, there's a few things you can try:

- Enable Large Address Aware flag on daorigins.exe if you have a 64 bit system
- Disable Data Execution Prevention on daorigins.exe
- Disable any anti-virus program you have running
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
^ See my edit, it seems it was the game and not the mod.
Yeah, sorry about that.

There's a few things you can try, but as I've never had this issue I don't know if it'll work out:

- Enable Large Address Aware flag on daorigins.exe if you have a 64 bit Vista/7 install
- Disable Data Execution Prevention on daorigins.exe
- Disable any anti-virus program you have running

Might explain why you initially had an issue with downloading the file intact:

fdm.jpg
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Thanks, I appreciate it. That bug has been fixed and will be correct in the next patch, for what that's worth. I never actually checked every single map marker so there's a chance some others are borked too.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Enjoying the mod so far!

I suddenly have 2 stacks of 99x Lyrium Dust in my inventory for no good reason though... that normal? Also, my stack of Cheat Potion has increased to 3, but I haven't produced them or done anything to encourage its growth. At one point one just spawned in my inventory and then another, and then another.

EDIT: Something's up. Another 99x Lyrium Dust just spawned out of nowhere in my inventory.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Enjoying the mod so far!

I suddenly have 2 stacks of 99x Lyrium Dust in my inventory for no good reason though... that normal? Also, my stack of Cheat Potion has increased to 3, but I haven't produced them or done anything to encourage its growth. At one point one just spawned in my inventory and then another, and then another.

EDIT: Something's up. Another 99x Lyrium Dust just spawned out of nowhere in my inventory.
Whoops. This is a regression from testing that should have been removed. These items spawn whenever you enter the Council District or possibly Arceris Chantry if I recall correctly. For now, you can delete them. I'll be sure to provide an update once I get home from work that fixes this.

Mental note: in the future, make an "is testing" variable for my own internal use, where test-related scripts are only executed when the testing status is set to true.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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I just said yes to pay a merchant 1 sovereign for an amulet without knowing what it does. 1 sovereign wasn't removed from my inventory, and I did not receive the amulet :)

EDIT: More bugs. When the deal was done, Hadrin didn't say anything to me - he just stood there unclickable - yet my journal updated with "Hadrin said to meet him at the market." But when I go to the market, there's no sign of Hadrin.

EDIT2: OK, I am about at the end of my rope here. Beyond the issues here and the one I sent you, I'm now standing in front of a door marked "entrance to Ivan's quarters" which is completely black and I can't interact with it. That makes 3 quests remaining in my log, all of which I cannot complete ;)
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Fixed the issue with the merchant. There was one out of several dialogue options that did not update the quest.

Pretty sure I fixed the issue with Hadrin - his conversation after the deal wasn't triggering and that was messing the rest of the quest up. You will need to replay his quest again to be able to turn it in.

Can you give me a screenshot of this door you mentioned? I'm not sure which one you are talking about and I have no idea why the door is not showing correctly.

New patch incoming once I get your problem with the door figured out. Can you upload a screenshot of it? I have no idea why it'd just... not be there.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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I can't very well replay the Hadrin quest - won't I get double XP and thereby cheat? (yeah I can 'sperge with stuff like that)

Anyway, screenshots:

There is no door!

B5A03AB1B4F3A3E5ADF22A67D79121797DCB5792


But there are clipping issues or somesuch!

BCCE3DCD474322D05C2ABBB6858829B83DA59ED3


This is the crypt in the cemetary (Milred's quest - the door is locked and there is nothing beyond that single room):

0A128FC00BAD34D4B5B281F32719F6ED0CFA1157


Chest is no longer clickable:


6BA15C8C010C566697381641646BDBAFC8D353B3
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
For the door to Ivan's Private Quarters - I have no idea, but I think what may have happened for some reason is that the door was not included in the final export. Looking into it now.

For the Arceris Crypt door - you should be able to pick the lock with Aneza or another rogue. It has the lowest possible lock level (auto success).
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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For the Arceris Crypt door - you should be able to pick the lock with Aneza or another rogue. It has the lowest possible lock level (auto success).


Doh!

Honestly I don't hold myself entirely responsible though, I tried picking like 10 locks with Aneza and then thought "well, fuck it, she can't pick locks, I get it game." ;)
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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May 3, 2011
Messages
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Doh!

Honestly I don't hold myself entirely responsible though, I tried picking like 10 locks with Aneza and then thought "well, fuck it, she can't pick locks, I get it game." ;)

Are you telling her to auto-level? It's kinda expected that you do manual level-ups for your followers... but yeah, any "essential" locks you must get through either have a key, are lowest possible level, or have alternate means of some kind.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10680698/Thirst_patch_3.7z

Can you please try this patch and see if it fixes things?

Changes:

- Made sure to include Fourth Scepter Private Quarters door just in case it was missing (let me know if it appears after installing, this is important)
- Made sure Hadrin's quest progresses properly

For Fourth Scepter Hall, you will probably need to reload a save and enter the location again for the first time, but the changes might apply regardless because the area "expects" the door to be there, it just can't find the resource. Either way this quest is essential to the main story path you chose, so you will need to get into the Private Quarters.

For Hadrin, you'll have to load a save from before or during when you did his deal. This quest is optional and can be skipped, but it would still be useful if I had confirmation that the quest works 100% correctly.
 
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Honestly I don't hold myself entirely responsible though, I tried picking like 10 locks with Aneza and then thought "well, fuck it, she can't pick locks, I get it game.

I kind of like that. It taunts me: "Think of all the other things inaccessible in this mod because you suck!" Not only the unpickable locks but some of the battles kick my ass. Is it because I got there too early in level or because I cannot into Dragon Age? not a serious question Sea
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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May 3, 2011
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5,698
The combat is meant to be challenging, especially because speech options can often let you off without a fight or will make it easier (i.e. intimidating causes some people to flee). Some of the hardest fights are completely optional or can be bypassed, including most bosses. There are quest options that will get you allies for some fights too. Now that you have access to more money than before, more XP, more unique weapons and armor, and more enchantments/runes, it should actually be easier than the beta was.

As for locks to pick: if you want everything, you will have to return when you are leveled up, make a rogue yourself, or put most of Aneza's bonus skills into lockpicking instead of combat. There are meant to be some trade-offs in non-combat vs. combat abilities, at least as much as the Dragon Age rule set will allow.
 
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Look at my edit from previous post. I'm playing on Nightmare and reducing it to Hard some battles. I expect a challenge but some are damn near impossible. I am still in early game so I've been scrounging up loot for those harder battles.
 
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By the way, when I'm at the moonshiner and use the dialouge choice of not fighting it immediately cuts away. Should it do this. I don't know of any dialogues thus far that do that.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
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Thanks! Yes it would be.

So, is there a check for the persuade option (I don't know how dragon age works: is it that the dialogue is shown when you have the correct stats or just there regardless of stats?", or am I just gonna get raped by those hounds every time?


EDIT: I'd rather not know actually. I'll figure it out myself.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Thanks! Yes it would be.

So, is there a check for the persuade option (I don't know how dragon age works: is it that the dialogue is shown when you have the correct stats or just there regardless of stats?", or am I just gonna get raped by those hounds every time?


EDIT: I'd rather not know actually. I'll figure it out myself.
If you still wanna know (probably TMI, but eh):

Skill checks do not have any markings on them by default, but you can choose to add tags for lines in the dialogue system, i.e. "Persuade", "Poison", "Herbalism". Any line can be checked by any condition (plot variable, script), doesn't matter if it's a player selected line or NPC line.

The way that dialogue is usually structured in Thirst is that a line will appear regardless of skills or attributes, but the follow-up line will be different depending on a skill check. So if I pick a persuade line, I have two possible outcomes: fail or succeed (or perhaps something more nuanced).

Conversation_tutorial_2.png


However, dialogue options can also be checked for conditions too, which is how many quests are handled (i.e. "I've collected all the rat butts, give me my reward"). Some lines which I feel should not show unless your character can do them will also appear selectively. Usually this is related to stuff like your current class (i.e. if mage -> line about magical stuff appears), or your attributes (most often cunning/intelligence). In these cases, usually selecting the option will only lead to one possible outcome, but there are still some situations where there are multiple nested dialogue checks.

The Dragon Age dialogue system makes certain things easier for you. You can mark lines to appear once per conversation or once ever, so things like quest-relevant options can't be selected more than once to obtain multiple rewards, or you can "check off" dialogue options so the player won't keep being presented the same options over and over until the conversation is initiated again.

This also lets you get away with a lot of stuff like not needing a unique variable to update when you talk to a minor NPC who only has a few conversation options (usually a "first greeting" that only appears once, and an "oh, you've returned" line). You can also link the same lines to appear in multiple places, which is an extreme time-saver and organizational aid, but you have to be careful you don't link a line in the wrong place (for instance, maybe you have a line that appears 3 times, but with different conditions each time... you have to make alternate versions of each line, or do the check on a previous line before the link).

More complex dialogue requires tracking of several if not dozens of variables through conversation and smart dialogue tree structuring, especially when you might have multiple quests interacting with the same NPC in convoluted ways. Some NPCs in Thirst have 10+ conversation trees because their dialogue has to vary correctly, show certain options or deny them depending on various quests that may or may not have been completed, etc.
I just realized that you were asking if there is a skill check there, not how skill checks work.

Yes, there is a skill check. It's kinda high. I think intimidating him might be easier (unlike Dragon Age's original campaign, it's not just a cosmetic difference).
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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sea said:
Are you telling her to auto-level? It's kinda expected that you do manual level-ups for your followers... but yeah, any "essential" locks you must get through either have a key, are lowest possible level, or have alternate means of some kind.

wut o_O

Don't you think it should state that somewhere? Or force it? I didn't think anybody but complete newbies auto-leveled. Of course I'm not using auto-leveling!

Are you telling me there is no way for me to complete the mod because I didn't level lockpicking?

I'll be patching now and checking out the door. I'm not going through with Hadrin's quest at this point, I don't have the save to do it.
 

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