Wizardry Wizardry 8 - first time playing

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Savour it. Revel in its succulence.

Oh and since you are reading the manual, devote the first 1-2 play sessions in character creation. It is top notch.

 

[DraQ]

One thing I can't stress enough (although that's easiest to fix during playthrough):
Make fun characters with good choice of names, portraits and voicesets (and of course the right build, but that's not about it) - party banter is important part of Wiz8.

Some tips :

Formation
Find what works best with your party composition, it's really important, i put my fighter types in front + both sides, the ranger behind and the mages in the middle with slings and staves.
Extended weapons mandatory for the ones on the sides but i usually go for extended range for everyone (some short range weapons are quite powerful though)
You can use more offensive formations but i don't recommend it unless you're always going to fight your back against a wall.

If you have a lot of melee capable characters, you coud put your casters and assorted squishies in the rear, leave the front empty and put your melee combatants in center and sides, with anyone with extended range weapon in the middle so that they provide 100% coverage and can reach any point around the party. This formation supports up to 9 melee characters (while you have up to 8 total...), though any enemy that gets through your frontliners or has extended range themselves will be able to poke your squishies and if it happens before their first turn poke them in the back too for 2x damage.

Of course you shouldn't treat your formation as set in stone, especially given that changes done in combat auto-reset when it ends - you might well move short range frontliners to the front and leave squishies in the back to make them unreachable by extended range weapons if enemy has those.

Don't get flanked in Arnika road, when you can't avoid a tough fight with close combat opponents (juggernauts specifically), find a nice corner somewhere and take them down "one by one".

If you have psionic-capable class or a gadgeteer Hypnotic Lure/lava lamp are godlike for getting enemy where you want them.

 

[Piotrovitz]

And i disagree about the loot you'll find while searching, first, it's rewarding to find useful stuff lying around and there is some interesting gear to discover.
Also very useful for a first playthrough before you know how to break the game's economy.

My memory may be a bit foggy, so I'm not sure if there was anything worthwhile to be found via searching - do you have some examples in mind?
From what I remember, it was mostly just minor stuff, like amulet of static of ring of AC+1 etc.

As for the economy, the only intentional way to mess it up is mixing and selling pandemonium powders - mid game it breaks on it's own, as you get tons of gold from selling loot.
It's not that you need gold anyway, since most of the good stuff is looted. From my experience the only real benefit of having some coins it to buy spelllbooks for your casters, which can spare you spell picks on lvl up and bump mana.

The omnigun is great but it takes forever to get to a good version because as far as i remember, engineer skill and character level unlocks the next version (and character level holds you back), gadgets are good but they use a lot of stamina and the good ones are very heavy (just like the stones for the omnigun).
So, yes, the gadgeteer is fun but anything else works just as well.

Totally agree. Not saying that gadgeteer is some top tier must-have class - it's just more versatile and fun to play than pure dmg dealers, like rangers.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Also, from my experience, insta kills doesn't proc very often

Not at first, no. But when you get a few levels under your belt, maybe some weppens with kill%...

Dunno man, on my last unfinished playthrough I took ranger for the first time, just to gimp myself a little, and even around mid-teens level he wasn't critting very often. Maybe this gets better over time, no idea tbh.

Bows with instakill are nothing to write home about either, as they have like 2% or 5% kill chance, plus most of them can be used by fighters/lords/valks.

You can't have been using him with crits in mind then (which is fine, rangers are good damage dealers as well). Triple-shot crossbow (if you've got a gadgeteer), or a good bow (5% kill is massive, wtf are you on about), plus good speed, dex and senses, and by the time you get close to Rapax castle, you'll be measuring your crit frequency in turns rather than encounters. The ranger is amazing.

 

[Serious_Business]

FIRST you must have a BISHOP and you must grind all the fucking magic skills and then you take the ninja and you fucking stick up a staff up his ass for maximum power, and THEN you spice up that vivisectionist mutagen right up your mother's cunt, that's RIGHT

 

[Piotrovitz]

Couple of more general, spoiler-free tips for OP:

1. You will need someone with locks & traps skill. This can be either:
- Rogue - great melee char, with right gear actually on par with pure fighters
- Bard - versatile char that can act like a supporting caster - instruments are amazing and can cast one of the most useful spells, they don't cost MP, and what's most important - you don't have to pump skills in multiple magic schools, cause the only governing skill responsible for their effectiveness is music. Also, there is lots of bard-only gear, which can turn him in a very capable fighter
- Gadgeteer - similar to Bard, but the gadgets can cast a bit worse spells than instruments do, at least in my opinion. Then again, it boils down to your party composition - gadgets provide more party buffs, while instruments are more for offense and CC/debuffs.

2. Whatever your party build is going to be on the first playthrough, take a Valk. She can fully take care of most crucial Priest spells, there's good variety of polearms to be found, plus she has the best special ability of all classes.

3. Don't listen to fuckwits who are perpetuating myth about Arnika road being ultra hard and advising to hold on with leveling in monastery.
First, it's not that hard, unless you're really unlucky and encounter i.e pack of juggernauts. Second, it will teach you to avoid tough encounters by retreating back, taking a rest, and coming back when the mobs wandered off. Third, it will teach you to use terrain for your advantage - this usually means tucking you party in a corner, when only couple of mobs can hit you.

4. Like DraQ said, make sure you create a racially diverse party of fun characters with nice portraits and adequate personality/voice sets. I.e Felpurr samurai that always speaks about himself in third person is just pure gold. The portraits are so beautiful that I actually play with the UI mode that is showing them all, even if this means smaller field of view. No other cRPG can beat the pure awesomeness of portraits/voice sets/party banters from Wiz 8.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Makes me want to fire it up, never played less than a full party or at least 6 + 1 NPC.

Maybe a T'Rang import with only 4 characters (i will edit them if i have to), Faerie Ninja, one bishop, one ranger and another fighter type, probably a valkyrie, no NPC ...

 

[DraQ]

2. Whatever your party build is going to be on the first playthrough, take a Valk. She can fully take care of most crucial Priest spells, there's good variety of polearms to be found, plus she has the best special ability of all classes.

There is a good Valk to be found too.

I.e Felpurr samurai that always speaks about himself in third person is just pure gold.

Khajiit has no words for you.

The portraits are so beautiful that I actually play with the UI mode that is showing them all, even if this means smaller field of view. No other cRPG can beat the pure awesomeness of portraits/voice sets/party banters from Wiz 8.

Although I mostly use full view with radar and formation display when exploring and fighting.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

My memory may be a bit foggy, so I'm not sure if there was anything worthwhile to be found via searching - do you have some examples in mind?
From what I remember, it was mostly just minor stuff, like amulet of static of ring of AC+1 etc.

I remember my ranger was always finding useful shit. Consumables, non unique/special weapons and equipment, gadget parts, level secrets which in some cases helped with quests.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

gadgeteer Hypnotic Lure/lava lamp

Best gadget in the entire game, hands down. Almost had me quit smoking.

 

[Piotrovitz]

There is a good Valk to be found too.

True, but since Valks are so good, and there's shitload of great polearms, it never hurts to have both Vi and your own one.
It also gives you a room to build one more as a buffer/healer spellcaster (Vi is great for that, since she has already some points in divinity), and second one as pure dmg dealer pumping polearms/close combat/bows on each lvl up.

Fuck, every time I write about Wiz 8, just want to drop everything and start another run : <

Off topic:
1. Are there any good difficulty mods out there? Like something that would bump up mobs resistances or dmg? It bums me out that even without metagaming or optimized party the game is too easy, even on expert.
2. Are there any mods that allow to bypass NPCs traveling restrictions?
Seems like on every playthrough I end up with Vi and RFS, since they can go almost everywhere. Anyone else is just to much pain in the ass with constant leaving them and picking up later. And I would fucking love to try Saxx, Tantris or even Sparkle

Can cosmic forge can take care of that?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Off topic:
1. Are there any good difficulty mods out there? Like something that would bump up mobs resistances or dmg? It bums me out that even without metagaming or optimized party the game is too easy, even on expert.
2. Are there any mods that allow to bypass NPCs traveling restrictions?
Seems like on every playthrough I end up with Vi and RFS, since they can go almost everywhere. Anyone else is just to much pain in the ass with constant leaving them and picking up later. And I would fucking love to try Saxx, Tantris or even Sparkle

Can cosmic forge can take care of that?

Difficulty mods :

• Dodd the slayer 2.3, there's a 2.4 version i didn't try (updated by a tier party)
• Lunastralis adds some insanely tough monsters (most avoidable, the breeders though ... that's something else but you fight them later), might want a walkthrough for this one. Also, it's a mod made for a party with at least one gadgeteer and best suited for a ranged* party.

Yes, the cosmic forge does that, i know i did it once because the "stunning bypass" gets old.

*Edit : With modern weapon skills, there's a lot of powerful new modern weapons.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Anyone tried speedhack on Wiz8 to good results?

 

[DraQ]

1. Are there any good difficulty mods out there? Like something that would bump up mobs resistances or dmg? It bums me out that even without metagaming or optimized party the game is too easy, even on expert.

Do you ironman?

2. Are there any mods that allow to bypass NPCs traveling restrictions?
Seems like on every playthrough I end up with Vi and RFS, since they can go almost everywhere. Anyone else is just to much pain in the ass with constant leaving them and picking up later. And I would fucking love to try Saxx, Tantris or even Sparkle

Can cosmic forge can take care of that?

I wouldn't mind a mod to rebalance their restrictions maybe, but not remove them. They are too integral to flavour.

Anyway, there is Wizardry 8 Enhanced mod, which I actually put some input into.

 

[xuerebx]

Thanks for all the recommendations!

Given what has been said (i.e. choose any combination of characters which makes the game fun!), I'm trying to come up with a party that is interesting to me, so I am choosing these weird races and the unusual professions.

One issue is that after reading the manual, there are some professions which no race meets the required attributes it seems. For example, a Gadgeteer requires STR45, INT55, DEX60, SEN55 - but no race has those starting attributes (I'm doing this comparison from the manual itself). Does this mean the only way to have a gadgeteer is to start off from a different profession and then change classes? (but then I've read that multi-classing is not recommended).

Right now I've come up with the following:

1. Samurai - Felpurr?
2. Bishop - Elf
3. Ranger - Rawulf?
4. Gadgeteer - ?
5. Rogue - Hobbit
6. Mage or Psionic - Mook

I haven't chosen a Valk only because apparently there's a recruitable NPC which is a Valk and I'd like to have a good mix.

Lizardman, Dracon and Faeries are also interesting but I don't think they fit the profession selection above. The former two seem suited for fighters, and I don't want a fighter (chosen a samurai instead).

Any ideas on the above? Thanks!

 

[coldcrow]

Dude, just roll with what tickles your fancy.
There is also an indepth explanation of stats and gamemechanics on steam guides. Races don't matter that much in general, but you should have a plan for each of your toons. For the first playthrough you may stick to the non-hybrid classes, as they are only really strong in the endgame. You don't need a Ranger, it's just convenience for not searching with the search command. Early in the game you get a spell doing the same. Criticals per skill (critical,renaged,thrown) are a huge trap, they chance is miniscule (0,5% per 10 ranks) and the value will be subject to relative level in comparison to the monster your are hitting. There are weapons with crit chance, and these values range from 5-15% usually.
Level is everything in Wizardry8. If you are lower realtive level the fight will suck, even and higher you will see that many things become easy to deal with. Easiest to notice with certain high HP but low lvl monsters.

You will get bonus points at character creation to fit the reqs for the class, more leftover if your race fits them more. Hobbits make good gadgeteers for example with 30 pts left to spend.
If you want to use magic offensively you should consider more specialist casters, Bishops are basically glorified buffbots until you spend an insane amount of time grinding their skills. Even then their level will trail behind the rest of the party, which will render their offensive magic rather useless if you encounter monster of a relatively higher level.

If you want a smooth ride and see many of the spells and weapons use Fighters and Specialist Casters and add one lockpicker if you can't do without.

 

[DraQ]

One issue is that after reading the manual, there are some professions which no race meets the required attributes it seems. For example, a Gadgeteer requires STR45, INT55, DEX60, SEN55 - but no race has those starting attributes (I'm doing this comparison from the manual itself). Does this mean the only way to have a gadgeteer is to start off from a different profession and then change classes? (but then I've read that multi-classing is not recommended).

That's the amount of allocable points you get on chargen (it's also in the manual, but without fancy colours).

• Best points in class
  
• Better than baseline (human)
• Worse than baseline (human)
• Worst points in class
• (border) unique advantage in that class (like item or special ability synergy)
  
• (border) Special disadvantage OR negative points (to be paid off during subsequent levels)
• (border) class specials negate particularly painful racial disadvantages

Note: points are not everything! Sometimes suboptimal amount of points might be interesting or get you closer to some build result, or just be better rounded (that's also in the manual).

 

[DraQ]

Lizardman, Dracon and Faeries are also interesting but I don't think they fit the profession selection above. The former two seem suited for fighters, and I don't want a fighter (chosen a samurai instead).

Dracons have special advantage when using cursed weapons - their breath weapon giving them a form of ranged attack even when they cannot swap weapons.
Faeries are best as casters but they might also have some success as weeaboo classes due to lightness of weapons used by them, reliance on crits rather than raw damage and good auxiliary casting (as all weeaboo classes are hybrids), but they are going to suck in professions requiring lugging a lot of junk (like ammo, gadgets or instruments).

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The Arnika Road Gauntlet meme is caused by idiots such as myself leaving the light spell on after leaving the monastery and attracting enemies like moths to the flame.

 

[xuerebx]

Thanks for the comments and for the very helpful matrix - taking them into account I've tweaked my party as follows:

1. Samurai - human
2. Mage - Faerie
3. Gadgeteer - Hobbit
4. Rogue - Felpurr
5. Psionic - Mook
6. Bard or Fighter*

Is having a gadgeeter and bard too much of the same? Not sure if I should go with Bard for my last choice, or with Fighter to have some more melee damage.

Then, I can finally start the goddamn game

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm running a Bard and Gadgeteer in my current party and I don't think there's overlap. Their tools complement each other just fine, and actually pair up quite well with an Alchemist to make up for the Alchies shortcomings when it comes to party buffs.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Is having a gadgeeter and bard too much of the same? Not sure if I should go with Bard for my last choice, or with Fighter to have some more melee damage.

In that party I'd go with a fighter so you have three dedicated frontliners. The Bard is terrible for that role as he'll be unconscious half the time.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Gadgeteer and bard nicely compliment each other tbh.

Gadgets provide more priest-like buffs and some offensive power later on + he comes with his own ranged gun which is useful through all the game.
Bard instruments provide more CC, though there are some offensive ones too. Also, he's suitable for front row melee tank, especially with shakespearean gear.

Your party is pretty nice and will be fun to play, and that's what matters the most - I would make samurai a felpurr though (there's one portrait that suits samurai and one that fits rogue, so don't worry about mistaking your furries).

Bard/Samurai/Rogue will make a decent front line.
Mage is the best of pure casters and has all the juicy spells you will need.
Gadgeteer will take care of the priest-like buffs.

If you want to have even easier times swap Psionic for elf Bishop specializing in psionic and alchemy.

 

[Piotrovitz]

In that party I'd go with a fighter so you have three dedicated frontliners. The Bard is terrible for that role as he'll be unconscious half the time.

I ran with frontline melee bard on my last run on expert, and with Bloodlust and bard-only gear (the amount of buffs it provides is ridiculous, look it up), and she hit like a truck.

You don't fall unconscious, because you don't play instruments every round - they are suppose to be support, not your main weapon.
You start the fight with haste from rousing drums, then depending on mobs you are against you cast insanity or freeze flesh or armormelt, and then you whack them with bloodlust.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Given the choice between whacking someone or casting a powerful AoE crowd control spell that costs no spell points, I cast every time.