Wizardry Wizardry 8 - first time playing

[Darth Canoli]

I know, but i have taken the flag from the pole previously without consequences. Also, there wasn't any hostility right after. Guess my yearly playthrough has abruptly ended, because i have no save before entering the camp and i can't find any info on changing the faction status, only save editors that change character stats.

What do you need the umpani for, anyway ?
They're just a waste of oxygen.

The T'Rang empire will prevail!

 

[Gnidrologist]

As a bare minimum their trader, who sells magic books that i need for my bishop. Some stuff in dungeons etc.
Btw, i can still exit camp without incident, it's the guys at the entrance of training course that get hostile, when i come close. Weird.

As for what people above say. i know all that and it's irrelevant here. I've just gotten into their camp and have only been to Arnika yet. No faction quests have been started.

 

[Strange Fellow]

The Umpani and the T'Rang have always been notoriously trigger-happy for me. Some bad scripts in there, probably.

 

[jackofshadows]

Guess my yearly playthrough has abruptly ended

Pff, just slaughter them later, no big deal.

When you're randomly stopped and blackmailed that you will be ratted out for working for both sides (T'rang and Umpani), will one of the factions turn hostile if you don't pay the blackmailers? I always paid them for fear that I wouldn't be able to make peace with both sides.

Sure, they do turn hostile. Last time I had to clear all T'Rang, my favorite faction

 

[Gnidrologist]

Think i actually avoided T'Rang hostility once by quickly entering and exiting from Z'ant's dialogue screen and moving away. He seems to become hostile after you hang around close to him after a time, but continues doing normal dialogue.

Pff, just slaughter them later, no big deal.

Yeah, thinking about that right now. Want to buy all the possible spell books from Kunar before that though. Maybe will roam around for a while.

edit:
1) i wonder if even can do T'Rang quests anyway (except giving the flag and killing rapax assassin), because i think some of them required access to Umpani inner sanctums while being on friendly terms with umpany
2) unrelated to above problem - can only high level gadgeteer combine light crossbows into double/tripple shot ones?

Anyhow, i was always power player, who exploited the double agent thing with bugs and rinos for dat xp, so now i'll have to do things differently. Been very conservative about that as i never cared about any of the factions. Maybe it's just what i need to have a bit more fresh experience with this game huh.

 

[DraQ]

The right way to complete the flag quest is to buy one after you enrolled and passed the first test (you don't need to go any further through the umpani quest-line, which is tedious due to their mines labyrinth).

I don't think you need to enroll. I think they sell those to civvies (the only thing they'll sell to civvies).

 

[damager]

What classes should I pick? I got a lizard axe warrior and dual wielding dwarf lord so far.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Fighter, Rogue, Valkyrie, Bard and Mage are the best beginner classes in a combination imo. Treat the sixth slot as a wild card.

Oh, and axes are rather bad, unfortunately.

 

[destinae vomitus]

What classes should I pick? I got a lizard axe warrior and dual wielding dwarf lord so far.

You can't go wrong with a human/hobbit/felpurr bard, combined with those two they can fight in the frontline and also take care of locks+traps if you so choose. That's without getting into all the utility that instruments offer along with the extra exploratory quality i.e. fun brought about by having to discover them throughout the game.

 

[damager]

Nice. I like bards. I would probably go with a kitty. Which attributes they need?

I made a priest doggy too. I picked Piety and Vitality for him. Another attribute to pick?

 

[jackofshadows]

What classes should I pick? I got a lizard axe warrior and dual wielding dwarf lord so far.

There's roughly speaking two types of classes: pure and hybrid. Kinda sorta similiar to how it's handled in M&M7-8 if you're familiar with those. And so hybrid ones like lord you've picked are harder for newcomers to develop. So you can take advice from Zboj Lamignat (those are all "pure") and won't go wrong. However, with all that said, the brilliance of Wizardry 8 is that you can win with pretty much any set up although the difficulty would vary a lot. I'd say the bare minimum is only having a divine caster and a mage or whichever cast protection from elemental (cannot remember the exact class pool for that). Then again, otherwise it'll be just more tedious to bother with scrolls etc but not impossible.

 

[damager]

What classes should I pick? I got a lizard axe warrior and dual wielding dwarf lord so far.

You can't go wrong with a human/hobbit/felpurr bard, combined with those two they can fight in the frontline and also take care of locks+traps if you so choose. That's without getting into all the utility that instruments offer along with the extra exploratory quality i.e. fun brought about by having to discover them throughout the game.

Mate I checked out a bard. But they come only with utility skills bonusses. Would you go into a weapon skill for them? Because you would send them into melee.

If I spec communitcation, music and traps/locks all skillpoints are already gone.

 

[destinae vomitus]

If I spec communitcation, music and traps/locks all skillpoints are already gone.

Communication is a dump stat, you can ignore it, and you don't necessarily have to put points into locks&traps every level since the hardest ones practically always require a spell to help crack them (alternatively have a gadgeteer take care of it, they're similar to bards with their gadgets and you can have them in the backline because they're ranged oriented, although their starting gun is awful so you're better off using bows). Outside of level-ups the other skills will naturally grow during combat and on top of that you're gonna want to pump dexterity initially, which governs weapon skills, locks&traps and even music.

A bard is obviously not gonna be the best melee combatant early on but they'll develop into a very competent one, especially since you'll also want to prioritize increasing str+vit because playing instruments uses up a lot of stamina.

 

[damager]

Yeah I just discovered the Gadgeteer and picked one

I went with Turtle my Lizard sword fighter, Madame Purrfect - bardess, Gunslinger a Hobbit Gadgeteer, Dogfather the doggy priest, Sparkle a female elven mage and Darky whos a dwarfen Lord

I really dig the voices and some of the portraits of this. Voice acting reminds me a lot of JA2 in a very positive way.

 

[Tse Tse Fly]

I think you need at least 2 capable frontline melee characters if it's your first time. Fighter and Lord should be ok. Also I would swap Gadgeteer with someone else - either Rogue or Alchemist/Psionic (but I think literally anyone else except Bishop would be superior - at least in early to mid game).

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

6 bishops! Pwn the shit out of them.

 

[Desiderius]

What classes should I pick? I got a lizard axe warrior and dual wielding dwarf lord so far.

I like a Bard and Gadge so you don’t miss out on content. The Nip classes are more for smaller party sizes or advanced players.

Fighter, Bard, Gadge, Ranger, Priest, and Bishop (focusing on Psionics and Wizardy) probably best base party.

Make sure not to hit lvl six before leaving monastery.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Yeah I just discovered the Gadgeteer and picked one

I went with Turtle my Lizard sword fighter, Madame Purrfect - bardess, Gunslinger a Hobbit Gadgeteer, Dogfather the doggy priest, Sparkle a female elven mage and Darky whos a dwarfen Lord

I really dig the voices and some of the portraits of this. Voice acting reminds me a lot of JA2 in a very positive way.

I'd go with a mage instead of a lord and you'll get a pretty good valkyrie soon enough if you're not filtered before you reach the city.
There's fastanim mod to speed up the combat and another one, you should google it, i've lost the links / files unfortunately.
It helps to speed it up.

Also, for your bard, i'd go with polearms and bows or crossbow (for the triple shoot crossbow down the road)
swords are good but reach weapons gets more targets so all in all, you save some turns with reach.

Spoiler

The ultimate cheat is a mook fighter for the giant sword by mid-game (extended reach) or a team with pole weapons and bows / crossbows.
You can get a mystic spear down the cliff in the trynton area and more in the upper branches, it's very good.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah I just discovered the Gadgeteer and picked one

I went with Turtle my Lizard sword fighter, Madame Purrfect - bardess, Gunslinger a Hobbit Gadgeteer, Dogfather the doggy priest, Sparkle a female elven mage and Darky whos a dwarfen Lord

I really dig the voices and some of the portraits of this. Voice acting reminds me a lot of JA2 in a very positive way.

I see there's already a lot of questionable advice being posted, so just pick what you want and stick with it. That party is more than OK and the only thing I'd point out is that you're duplicating divinity spell book which is very, uh, suboptimal. Priest is ok-ish pick if you're new to the game, but lord is still better, so I would exchange the clergy for someone else. Alchemy is very good, not necessarily for the spells, but the potion mixing is amazing and alchemist would cover throwing, which synergizes with the alchemy itself. Ranger also has alchemy and scouting as well, so it's another p meh class that actually an OK pick for a beginner.

 

[cvv]

Yeah I just discovered the Gadgeteer and picked one

A repost from 12 years ago. Still stands:

I was always looking forward to bigger and more destructive spells to deal with the trash fights faster but they always disappointed (as many people warned). That's because the monsters always seem to have about 10 times more HP than is your reliable (green range) destructive spell dmg output. By the time you get WMDs like Nuclear Blast or Earthquake, enemies start in the 300 HP range and have 80+ elemental damage resistance and many of them cast Elemental Shield. This renders those spells effectively useless. For the same reason the instant death-type spells like Asphyxiation, Death Wish or Quicksand are doubly useless (moreover the 7th level spells like Death Wish come very late in the game, if you don't powerplay, I got mine on the Ascension Peak )

And as for the disabling magic, most of it is also pointless, when Paralyze or Web is rarely successful and Blind is more annoying than anything since blinded monsters run away. Best magic school by far seems to be Psionics (in W7 it is the worst), at least this one becomes useless only at the very end.

On the other hand some protective spells - Magic Screen, Soul Shield, Elemental Shield and Missile Shield - seems a tad bit overpowered. Combined with high resistances my chars accumulated through leveling monsters could hardly touch me. The last fight was a joke and I was only about level 22. Also, as a side note, after dozens of hours of playing I still have no idea what exactly spells like Bless, Armorplate and Enchanted Sword actually do.

(Also, fuck Gadgeteer next time. Most gadgets come late, there are much fewer of them than music instruments and many are underpowered. The Omnigun can be decent but blinds very often, which is annoying, and the ultimate - and truly awesome - addon comes at lvl 26 which means 25 million XP. Fuck that, next time I take Bard).

TLDR - whatever you do always make sure to take chars with high Critical Strike like Samurais, Ninjas or Rangers. An Elf Ranger with the Elven Bow (only through a party import from W7 unfortunately) and Mystic Arrows is so powerful he will easily carry MOST of your party kills. You basically don't need anyone else, your other squaddies are there just as a distraction and meat shields. Crits are not only good in W8, not only great, they'e p. much the only thing that matters in combat from mid-game on.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Offensive magic is situationally useful throughout the game. Instakill spells are p decent and are the spells you actually want to use against the rapax. Even if you kill 3-4 from a big group throughout the encounter that's still a lot of value and mana is not an issue at this point. Disable spells are definitely not useless, particularly not in the early to mid game and psionics is definitely not the best spell book lmao.

My opinion on gadgie went down over the years, but the actual problem in the context of this topic is that he's piss weak early game, easy candidate for the worst early game class and thus a particularly bad pick for a beginner.

Samurais, Ninjas or Rangers.

None of these classes are among the particularly stronger ones bar some meme/meta builds and having all three in your party will make the game definitely more of a challenge as a beginner. And it's just largely theory crafting that's not a thing in the actual game, you're never gonna get enough mystic arrows or death stars etc. You also failed to mention the build you want to get if you want a decently reliable crit build throughout the entire game instead of some meta may-may, which is staff monk.

 

[cvv]

snip

1. Situationally useful, also known as mostly useless.
Sure your casters can sometimes kill something, here and there, the point is almost any other class will be a more valuable use of their slot.

2. Sure, an Elf Ranger with the Elven Bow and Mystic Arrows is definitely a meta build but that was just an example you don't need this minmaxed version, any Ranger with a good bow built for Critical Strike will be 10x more useful than a caster without a physical weapon. In other words you don't need to instakill 50% of the time, 20% is still great and WAY more useful than peppering super resistant mobs that keep casting Elemental Shield with your wet noodle of AoEs.

3. Elemental-based disabling spells suck for similar reasons - resistance and protective spells mobs keep casting. That's why Psionic spells are the best because mobs are way less resistant and IIRC they don't cast any Psionic protection (I could be corrected on this).

4. Having a Ninja or a Samurai could be a bit more challenging at the start if you build them as hybrids. Then their melee suffers AND their casting sucks. But if you only focus on melee they're fine at the start and become leagues more useful later on than non-crit melees, let alone casters.

Dunno, I'm not an arcane expert on W8 but I did run through it 3 times start to finish and my experience has been always the same. And it's not like I'm saying anything controversial. If you look around the webz whining about offensive spells and praising crit builds is p. ubiquitous.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Situationally useful as in allowing you to hurt phys resistant enemies so that you don't grind your teeth into a powder when visiting Baijin, for example. Or quickly clearing chaff, what with every normie yapping about there being a lot of combat in muh crpg. The overall sentiment about dmg spells is very much true, and I would never attempt some of the insanity people recommend, like 6 bishops, but there's no need to additionally undersell them. Something like high dice tsunami, for example, will do a group of rapax way more harm than the most min-maxed melee char can in one turn.

Disable spells are not all-powerful or anything, but even freezing only two modais from the group is very useful and better than sticking insanity on couple of them. I think people always go on and on about insanity because it's so crippling when someone uses it on you early game and then you kinda fail to notice how it barely does anything when it's the other way round. Psionics does have a good mid to late game disable, hex, but there's this little problem with it - bard and mage have it too.

Re crits - I really don't want to repeat the same points again. I'll just remind that we still don't know how that shit works and how xp levels, % from skill, % from weapon, % from ammo and all that jazz interact with each other. All I know is that when I played this game to completion recently yet again, I did not notice any significant difference in instakill frequency between my valkyrie with a % kill lance versus a ranger with % kill skill, weapon and ammo. And even before considering that you can give your plain 'ol fighter the fang, I'd still never claim that a samurai will be "leagues better" than a berserking murder machine with super early 100str and powerstrike just because crit skill. And ninja is just plain bad (on the wiz8 scale where every class is good) if you don't lean into meta, sorry, particularly if you go with the vanilla build it's pigeon holed into.

 

[jackofshadows]

4. Having a Ninja or a Samurai could be a bit more challenging at the start if you build them as hybrids. Then their melee suffers AND their casting sucks. But if you only focus on melee they're fine at the start and become leagues more useful later on than non-crit melees, let alone casters.

I'd disagree on that. I did a run of 2 casters + 4 ninja and while that was pretty damn fun I'd bet having 4 fighters would be much, much, much better deal than that.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I always had this TMNT larp idea of playing with 4 lizardmen ninja with appropriate weapons (bo, nunchaku, katana and sais), unarmed felpurr monk and April as, I guess, human bard. But the fact that you get a felpurr instead of a rattkin and sais are a bitch to get kills my mojo.

Then in my recent playthrough I actually got two sais in random drops, which has never ever happened before.