Wizardry Wizardry 8 great game ruined by level scaling and respawning

[Clockwork Knight]

Eh, watching someone fumble around with a game they don't know anything about isn't that fun, unless it's clearly for lulz and they don't intend to get anywhere with it. For blind LPs screenshots are better, so the LPer can cut off the fat.

 

[Invictus]

Thinking about replaying all the way to Arnika with a starter save of my current chars I decided to load up an old (at least 15 years old) save from Wiz 7 which had not only finished the game but managed to slay all the gorrors (including the infamous Beast of a 1000 eyes) so they had some pretty good equipment. Seing them as 1st level characters was amusing but even keeping them at level 1 they whipped the floor with everything up to Arnika in less than 2 hours. Since most of their skills where 20 their attacks almost always hit, their mana poll allowed them to spam energy blasts at will and they kept such nice weapons as the naginata, sai (5% kill), zwaihander and stun rod (50% paralysis chance per hit!) And the bard had his whole asortment of magic instruments such as the kornu of the demonspawn, angek tongue and pipes of pain
Oh man! Kickassery cometh!
I feel that spawns and whatever are really offset by the skills, to the point where the spawns where simply overpowered by the superior gear, it really remninded me how intimidating the Wizardry games can be for new players who might not even know how to properly develop their characters
I played a few minutes with my level 7 party and they even felt underpowered in comparisson

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Whats the point of leveling up if the enemies always stay just as powerful as you, you dont feel any progression due to it.

They don't.

They should have looked at might and magic 6 to see it done right, yes enemies do respawn but only after ALOT of time and no fucking level scaling.

It's almost like fighting respawning mob was the characteristic feature of tb blob crpgs.

 

[DraQ]

Eh, watching someone fumble around with a game they don't know anything about isn't that fun, unless it's clearly for lulz and they don't intend to get anywhere with it. For blind LPs screenshots are better, so the LPer can cut off the fat.

The thing is the fat is what is interesting. You aren't interested in the game itself, but in the playthrough, and the freshest playthrough is the first.

 

[Snufkin]

Key to not struggle is picking awesome party that grinds fast from start to finish, and that is strong both ranged and meele. 3 mook fighters, hobbit ranger, hobbit bard and hobbit gadgeeter is my favorite. You get all important spells with gadgets and instruments, and your mook fighters rape everything with long range giant swords when they find them, and before they use bows and upgraded crossbows made by gadgeeter.

 

[Jasede]

I might totally want to ragefuck DraQ but this is still the best modern RPG I know.
Heh, modern.

Who can make the muddy water clear? Let the water be still and it will become clear on its own.

Why has no party-based RPG ever copied the "personality" setting?
Why were there no (proper, notable) party-based RPGs after Wiz 8?

Fuck everything, I miss this game.


My party was from Wiz6->7. It sucked ass. I had to struggle mightily to get past Rapax Castle and Ascension peak. This was some solid RPGing. One of a kind. Tear of an eagle.

 

[uaciaut]

Yes the level scaling in fallout 3 and oblivion is even better, the almost insta enemy re spawning combined with the level scaling just ruins the game for me.

Not it isn't, in Wiz8 the level of the respawns is based on the area (i.e. you outlevel arnika at something like level 14?), in F3 you wake up with deathclaws in some small town and the npc's just get instantly butchered.

Why has no party-based RPG ever copied the "personality" setting?

Hope P:E does that with their party creation option.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

wiz 7 is a LOT better than wiz 8.

 

[Bubbles]

wiz 7 is a LOT better than wiz 8.

If you have virtually unlimited time, sure. Otherwise, Wiz 8 is at least beatable while maintaining a full time job.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

wiz 7 is a LOT better than wiz 8.

If you have virtually unlimited time, sure. Otherwise, Wiz 8 is at least beatable while maintaining a full time job.

I play wiz7 at my job on my phone.

 

[Invictus]

I like Wiz 8 just fine but Wiz 7 is the my favorite RPG of all time. I actually feel very luck for having played it so young so I had more than ample time to devote myself to it, I must have spend easily 300 hours over 3 months of almost daily play checking out every cranny and hidden spot, savescuming the heck out of chests, carefuly charting the progression of the stats and skills of my chars, keeping a whole lot of notes and staying up late at my father's spooky as hell library...
Those where the days

 

[Dorateen]

Why were there no (proper, notable) party-based RPGs after Wiz 8?

bioware. And that quagmire of filth known as their fanbase

 

[Invictus]

I wouldn't blame Bioware it is just that party based systems for FP was not a very atractive proposition for modern gamers with its stats and turn based combat

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

..that fall had more to do with the 3D immersive world building craze IMO.

 

[DraQ]

Why were there no (proper, notable) party-based RPGs after Wiz 8?

bioware. And that quagmire of filth known as their fanbase

That's more of an answer to personality settings.

 

[Dorateen]

Why were there no (proper, notable) party-based RPGs after Wiz 8?

bioware. And that quagmire of filth known as their fanbase

That's more of an answer to personality settings.

The Wizardry 8 personality settings are more of an answer to the modern day biodrone who squeals on about "Make your own party? They have no personality! I need a developer to make joinable companions to engage my only PC, or else I can't identify!"

Fact is, old school party-based exploration and dungeon crawlers, of which Wizardry 8 is among the last released during that era, remain an antithesis to everything the BSN believes in. What bioware did was tap into a market that never played RPGs before and suddenly there was no interest in designing games in the style of the classics. Those people wanted their consolized Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Ages and Mass Effects. I'll place the blame of decreasing quality RPGs entirely at their doorstep.

 

[Johannes]

This game is ruined by a lot more than that

 

[Broseph]

This game is ruined by a lot more than that

fuck you

 

[DraQ]

The Wizardry 8 personality settings are more of an answer to the modern day biodrone who squeals on about "Make your own party? They have no personality! I need a developer to make joinable companions to engage my only PC, or else I can't identify!"

If so, they are the perfect answer.

As much as I enjoy the actual gameplay of Wiz8, I'm not sure I could keep it up without party members constantly commenting on stuff happening.

 

[Invictus]

I wouldn't say it bioware's direct fault; they designed a game based on the narrative structure of party memebers having their own motivations and reasons for hanging arround with the PC but it wasn't a direct slight on the past party mechanics at all but a design choice. That their design proved so comercialy succesful that they continued to redo it time and time again and that all other developers followed suit is another matter

 

[coldcrow]

I can understand people miss uniqueness in a game. But to glorify Wiz8 because of the character quotes is quite inane. The lowest common denominator of later games does not excuse the hilarity - often more annoying than funny - of Wiz8. Sweet flavored crap is still crap, even if it's heads and shoulders above a smelly turd.

 

[Xenich]

wiz 7 is a LOT better than wiz 8.

If you have virtually unlimited time, sure. Otherwise, Wiz 8 is at least beatable while maintaining a full time job.

Well, if "finishing" the game in a timely manner was the point of playing a game, I could understand. Thing is, playing the game is the point and that being the case begs the question as to why time has anything to do with it?

Now I can understand the "I lack the time" argument when it happens to deal with games that require a certain level of time commitment in one setting (though this is only a problem for MMO's and tardsole games with check point systems), but past that I would think one would like games to be as long as they possibly can. Heck, if it took me a few years to finish a game because I could only spend 30 mins to an hour in one setting, well... I would be ecstatic. It sure beats the irritation of the games that when you do get a bit of time to play are finished within a couple sessions leaving you sitting there feeling like a sucker who threw away money at what used to be considered a demo product.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Exactly. A good thorough love-making is much more satisfying than a quickie.

 

[Zombra]

I think the combat is great. No, I don't want to sit down and do 100 hours of it in a row, but why do I have to? I play it for maybe a couple hours at a time. If I get sick of it, I stop. Then a week or two later I find myself going back to play some more. Respawned fights are okay, because the fighting is fun. If you don't like the combat, why play the game at all? For the brilliant story? Would it be better if the game was finishable in 10 hours instead of 100? Maybe ... but maybe it would also be a lot more forgettable. I'm not saying the respawn time or whatever is perfectly balanced for every player, but damn it is a good game. Not liking it because it has too much of the main gameplay element seems weird to me.

 

[Ranselknulf]

I found the respawns (random encounters**) much more common on wizardry 7 than wiz 8. At least you could try to avoid them on wizardry 8.

But if you want to argue over which is more moddable to be fun instead of comparing vanilla versions, then I think that's an entirely different discussion.