Wizardry Wizardry 8 - surviving high level mobs

[Piotrovitz]

As much as we all love Wiz8, one have to admit it that it doesn't have much cool dungeons to explore.

Open areas are kinda okay, but the caves/dungeons are terrible:
- mt. gigas
- sea caves
- bayjin shallows
- lower marten's bluff (which is basically bunch of huge ass empty corridors)

Trynton upper branches/Rattkin tree had some kind of potential, but there's just too many empty huts with nothing or just crappy loot inside.

I'd wish they put some closed/gated/optional dungeons like monastery here and there

 

[jackofshadows]

What about Rapax Castle? I think it's an awesome dungeon.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Retro dungeons are the best obviously.

 

[Piotrovitz]

What about Rapax Castle? I think it's an awesome dungeon.

Yeah, Rapax Castle is indeed cool, but it's almost an end-game area, and before that you don't have any interesting.

Why couldn't they add some more smaller dungeons, which would encourage exploration, e.g some small crypt on Arnika road, with some low level gadget as a reward at the end, so you're gadgie wouldn't have to be stuck with lightning rod for 1/3 of the game etc etc. Same with other open areas - it wouldn't hurt to add anything, even tiniest dungeon that you could finish in 20 minutes.
Because of that, the game often feels very empty and half-completed.

As for retro dungeons - the idea was great, but the execution is horrible - it's so dark you can't see shit and the corridors look like they were designed for giants.

Currently I'm slogging through Mt. Gigas caves and try not to give up. This is absolutely the worst part of the game.

I've modded in Cosmic Forge RPCs area restrictions just to try trynnie ranger - I've start a couple of playthroughs with one in my party and he always seems to be a deadweight, but it seems the class blooms in his early teens. With double shot crossbow she's dishing nice dmg, and once in a while instakill procs makes things even better.

I've also took Madras, since I wanted a gadgie, but hadn't room for him - he's doing nice, but with low STR he seems to run out of steam pretty quickly. I wonder how he will manage end-game gadgets like the tsunami or earthquake one - hopefully he won't pass out after one use.

Goddamn it, this game is so addictive and replayable.

 

[Fluent]

this game is so addictive and replayable.

yeah, it really seems so from an outsider's perspective. I've only ever gotten to Arnika Road in a playthrough, and I played it when i was burning out of video games at the time, so I didn't get very far. It really seems like an amazing CRPG, one that can be played a myriad of different ways and with super addictive progression and exploration. I really have to find time for it in the near future. It also feels like a must-play for every RPG fan at some point. It's just that good.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Name one or two dungeons that are on par with Monastery or Rapax Castle :+)

 

[Zombra]

As much as we all love Wiz8, one have to admit it that it doesn't have much cool dungeons to explore.

It also doesn't have much barber shops or much dentist offices. So what? It's not a game "about dungeons", and the fact that you consider that a shortcoming says more about you than it does about the game.

 

[Darth Canoli]

It also doesn't have much barber shops or much dentist offices. So what? It's not a game "about dungeons", and the fact that you consider that a shortcoming says more about you than it does about the game.

I agree, as much as i love perfectly designed dungeons like the monastery, i don't mind a game quite light on the dungeon side like Wizardry 8.
Still, had they replaced Mt. Gigas by another monastery-like dungeon, the game would have been just perfect.

 

[Shadenuat]

like all wiz it's more like whole world is a dungeon. but compared to wiz7 there is nothing like say dane tower (ima casual so it's like one thing I can compare).

imo best wiz dungeon of late is Grimoire prologue. (not counting jrpg-wizardries)
i think it's not a stretch to say that cool grafix for time, full vo and all that meant smaller dungeons since well harder to make these 3d levels.

so in some respect we can say wiz8 is somewhat of a dec-

(coughs) ahem go on i didn do nufin

 

[DraQ]

WTF is wrong with pretty much any dungeons?

The only ones I don't like are retro ones, though they are meant to emulate early wizardries and do just that (and lewt is nice).

Trynton has some issues being composed of narrow, linear walkways, but the concept is cool enough to float it.

Other than that some open areas have more issues (like roads being mostly just boring, well, roads with regularly spaced nooks and crannies to sleep in).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

What, exactly, do you like about Gigas caves? They're boring and drag for far too long.

I think there are some very decent dungeons in the game, but the overall feeling of emptiness is a valid complaint. A bigger one, for me, is the utter lack of side quests and the ones that exist are either severely undercooked or plain unfinished.

 

[Piotrovitz]

It also doesn't have much barber shops or much dentist offices. So what? It's not a game "about dungeons", and the fact that you consider that a shortcoming says more about you than it does about the game.

What kind of cretinous argument is that?

Sure it's not a 'game about dungeons', but it's a fucking RPG and you would expect to have at least couple of them, especially in such a huge game.

Name me at least couple of cRPGs that doesn't have, or have very little amount of dungeon exploration, because they are not 'games about dungeons'.

Anyway, what Zboj says - overall the world feels empty and quests are either non-existent or unfinished.
But it doesn't matter, because the game is still awesome,

 

[Piotrovitz]

Duct tape you have only 20 uses total (10 from the beach + 10 from some Arnika store), plus let's be honest - single target paralyze is nothing to write home about.

What gadgie is missing early game is some AoE dmg, like piercing pipes that Bard has right out of the Monastery.

 

[Zombra]

Name me at least couple of cRPGs that doesn't have, or have very little amount of dungeon exploration, because they are not 'games about dungeons'.

Alpha Protocol.
Dead State.
Deus Ex.
Fallout.
Jagged Alliance series.
RimWorld.
Sorcery! series.
UFO series.
Vampire: Bloodlines.
Wasteland 2.
Witcher series.
Wizard's Crown.
X-Com series.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I see couple of titles that are either FPP or squad based strategies with RPG-lite elements, like char stats - it's a bit of a stretch to be honest.

Let's not go into 'what is an RPG' and end this discussion here please.

btw - I never played any of the Witchers - aren't there any dungeons? you just roam through fields and forests/cities? .____.'

 

[Desiderius]

Just leave Monastery at level five and level up after area loads. You’ll be on par with the mobs or overleveled and once you hit Arnika you’re good.

 

[Desiderius]

Duct tape you have only 20 uses total (10 from the beach + 10 from some Arnika store), plus let's be honest - single target paralyze is nothing to write home about.

What gadgie is missing early game is some AoE dmg, like piercing pipes that Bard has right out of the Monastery.

Single target Paralyze at high level early game absolutely is. Paralyze/Web/KO make mobs sitting ducks, which is pretty important on Expert. Attacks that hit train skills much faster than those which don’t (unlike spells)

Nothing stopping you from buying more than one roll - they’re cheap!

 

[BoroMonokli]

Two thoughts from reading the thread.

If you hug the wall you can't get fully surrounded, and if enemy spots you, you can get away or slip past them quickly. plus the high ground has some line of sight protection against battles.

Slipping past the guards at marten's bluff to access teleporter and the other side of the marten's bluff castle lets you make a port-o-potty rather early. You will also have: jack in the box for terror, lava lamp for hypnotic lure, holograph projector for guardian angel. Croc sells the one part of forcefield generator, while the other is in trynton. Not quite what the bard has, but not shabby either.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

get away

this is just fairytale. in w8 enemies spot you from the other side of the planet, engage from the nearby continent and keep chase for two galaxies.

 

[Dungeon Lord]

Alpha Protocol. - shit
Dead State. - shit
Deus Ex. - awful shit
Fallout. - this is not - the exception that proves the rule
Jagged Alliance series. - shit
RimWorld. - shit
Sorcery! series. - shit
UFO series. - shit
Vampire: Bloodlines. - awful shit
Wasteland 2. - awful shit
Witcher series. - awful shit
Wizard's Crown. - ???
X-Com series. - shit

 

[Terenty]

Question for the experts:

if I find some enemies too strong for me now, will I be able to come back later after leveling up and steamroll them or will they scale with me and there's no point in going away?

For example there are three Saplings each 350 HP in Trynton guarding a room and they obliterate my team with their OP magic. Can I grind some levels and deal with them later?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yes, this is a set encounter. It's indeed difficult at the time you typically get there, but still doable. Anti-magic screen should be up all the time and hopefully you have a caster able to elemental shield at a decent dice?

 

[Terenty]

Yes, this is a set encounter. It's indeed difficult at the time you typically get there, but still doable. Anti-magic screen should be up all the time and hopefully you have a caster able to elemental shield at a decent dice?

I watched some guides before starting the game and someone said that you need to spec into fire and water magic and disregard other schools, so I have only 3 points in Earth magic and no elemental shield unfortunately.

What is anti-magic screen?

 

[Hobo Elf]

Yes, this is a set encounter. It's indeed difficult at the time you typically get there, but still doable. Anti-magic screen should be up all the time and hopefully you have a caster able to elemental shield at a decent dice?

I watched some guides before starting the game and someone said that you need to spec into fire and water magic and disregard other schools,

My best advice is to do what sounds fun as pretty much everything works / is important. I've found that most guides for Wiz8 are almost harmful, especially those that rank classes in some kind of tier list.

so I have only 3 points in Earth magic and no elemental shield unfortunately.

What is anti-magic screen?

Magic Screen is a buff in the Divine domain that increases the spell resistance for your party.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I watched some guides before starting the game and someone said that you need to spec into fire and water magic and disregard other schools, so I have only 3 points in Earth magic and no elemental shield unfortunately.

What is anti-magic screen?

I really don't know why would anyone say that, but nvm. Magic screen is a divine spell that is cast outside of combat and that boosts your resistance to all magic realms. It's pretty much THE spell to always have up through the game as soon as you can. Always have a divinity caster with you, unless you know the game well and really know that you don't want to have one. If you have a bard (and if it's your first playthrough then you should) you can cast it more comfortably and reliably from an instrument later on.

In combat, you can boost yourself further against elements (elemental shield) and divine/mental spells (soul shield). But since you can't savescum for a high dice in a fight, you need a decent caster for that. It's not super necessary outside of toughest fights, though. Magic screen has you covered most of the time.

Btw, check the other buffs that are cast outside of combat (mostly missile shield, enchanted blade and armorplate) as they are great and make life much easier for a beginner.