Worst skills in RPGs

[toro]

Intimidate is usually a bad choice. It's often not used, and generally only when the player has the upper hand and can be better resolved by murder-hoboing. In situations where the player might need to avoid a conflict, Bluff is more often offered and usually better.

This also applies to Bluff. When Dipolamcy is split into Persuasion, Bluff, Intimidate... persuasion is almost always the best choice for the same reasons above.

A Barbarian best communicates with his axe and fists.

 

[VerSacrum]

rhetoric/persuasion/speech/whatever

The mark of a good RPG is those skills being a viable alternative to combat-oriented characters.

 

[Maxie]

rhetoric/persuasion/speech/whatever

Only when it's a win button. I hate how speech skill was impelemented in New Vegas, where all you need is speech skill high enough to pass the treshhold(which is known to you).

Speech checks should be based on at least 2 attributes (for example inteligence + charisma or stength + wits) coupled with pesuasion/intimidate/rhetoric skills. Your PC shouldn't even be able to create same sentences if he doesn't have the right attributes, let alone passing skillcheck. Skillcheck should contain some element of uncertainty, so you could fail even tho your PC is good with words. It means that you could also critically succeed with Inteligent but less skilled character. Basically I want Fallout 1 system, it was closest to perfection for a computer game.

no, they should be erased from existence, or given a meagre exp reward for passing them as opposed to actual gameplay

 

[Maxie]

rhetoric/persuasion/speech/whatever

The mark of a good RPG is those skills being a viable alternative to combat-oriented characters.

if you hate rpgs it's your problem

 

[MasPingon]

rhetoric/persuasion/speech/whatever

Only when it's a win button. I hate how speech skill was impelemented in New Vegas, where all you need is speech skill high enough to pass the treshhold(which is known to you).

Speech checks should be based on at least 2 attributes (for example inteligence + charisma or stength + wits) coupled with pesuasion/intimidate/rhetoric skills. Your PC shouldn't even be able to create same sentences if he doesn't have the right attributes, let alone passing skillcheck. Skillcheck should contain some element of uncertainty, so you could fail even tho your PC is good with words. It means that you could also critically succeed with Inteligent but less skilled character. Basically I want Fallout 1 system, it was closest to perfection for a computer game.

no, they should be erased from existence, or given a meagre exp reward for passing them as opposed to actual gameplay

Speech should be a part of gameplay, not a win button. There were some attempts to make it right. Fallout 1/2 got a good system and you were suppose to choose right answers, Disco Elysium got a cool Thoughts Cabinet that gives you an opportunity to build a specific character that reacts in a way you want. Even Deus Ex: Human Revolution tried to make it an actual gameplay with this:



Speech in crpg is neglected, but has a lot of potential to be entertaining.

 

[Maxie]

rhetoric/persuasion/speech/whatever

Only when it's a win button. I hate how speech skill was impelemented in New Vegas, where all you need is speech skill high enough to pass the treshhold(which is known to you).

Speech checks should be based on at least 2 attributes (for example inteligence + charisma or stength + wits) coupled with pesuasion/intimidate/rhetoric skills. Your PC shouldn't even be able to create same sentences if he doesn't have the right attributes, let alone passing skillcheck. Skillcheck should contain some element of uncertainty, so you could fail even tho your PC is good with words. It means that you could also critically succeed with Inteligent but less skilled character. Basically I want Fallout 1 system, it was closest to perfection for a computer game.

no, they should be erased from existence, or given a meagre exp reward for passing them as opposed to actual gameplay

Speech should be a part of gameplay, not a win button. There were some attempts to make it right. Fallout 1/2 got a good system and you were suppose to choose right answers, Disco Elysium got a cool Thoughts Cabinet that gives you an opportunity to build a specific character that reacts in a way you want. Even Deus Ex: Human Revolution tried to make it an actual gameplay with this:



Speech in crpg is neglected, but has a lot of potential to be entertaining.

disco shit isn't an rpg. delete your account

 

[MasPingon]

rhetoric/persuasion/speech/whatever

Only when it's a win button. I hate how speech skill was impelemented in New Vegas, where all you need is speech skill high enough to pass the treshhold(which is known to you).

Speech checks should be based on at least 2 attributes (for example inteligence + charisma or stength + wits) coupled with pesuasion/intimidate/rhetoric skills. Your PC shouldn't even be able to create same sentences if he doesn't have the right attributes, let alone passing skillcheck. Skillcheck should contain some element of uncertainty, so you could fail even tho your PC is good with words. It means that you could also critically succeed with Inteligent but less skilled character. Basically I want Fallout 1 system, it was closest to perfection for a computer game.

no, they should be erased from existence, or given a meagre exp reward for passing them as opposed to actual gameplay

Speech should be a part of gameplay, not a win button. There were some attempts to make it right. Fallout 1/2 got a good system and you were suppose to choose right answers, Disco Elysium got a cool Thoughts Cabinet that gives you an opportunity to build a specific character that reacts in a way you want. Even Deus Ex: Human Revolution tried to make it an actual gameplay with this:



Speech in crpg is neglected, but has a lot of potential to be entertaining.

disco shit isn't an rpg. delete your account

Oh, sorry. Forgot you are retarded.

 

[jackofshadows]

First Aid in Fallout 1/2

• Highly duplicates the more useful doctor skill
• Has no ability to heal crippled limbs, the most important use of doctor
• In theory, first aid kits are lighter and more common than doctor's bags. In practice, unless you savescum to get raider v. caravan random encounters in F2, first aid kits aren't actually all that common
• To my knowledge, there's zero skill checks in either game for first aid, but are a few for doctor
• In theory First Aid is a secondary skill due to being able to be raised to mid-levels by magazines where doctor can't. In practice, these magazines nearly always cost money that could just be spent on stimpaks.
• First Aid gives access to Healer, which just slightly boosts the mediocre recovery of First Aid. Doctor gives access to one of the game's best perks, which gives a fixed damage boost against most targets.

But you can use the skill w/o first aid kit. Still worthless though, sure. Also the doctor skill gives access to implants which are relatively useful (relatively because all those DTs won't work agaisnt crits). As for "one of the best perks" - lol dude +5 damage flat bonus is pretty fucking weak. Compare that say to +2(4) damage bonus but to every bullet from your minigun or bonus AP which translates to much more potential output not to mention the two which give up to 100% crit chance.

Arcanum has Heal and Spot and Disarm Traps.
All three are pretty worthless. Enemies rarely cripple your limbs with their attacks, and heal does not restore that many hitpoints.
Spot and Disarm traps are also pretty bad. You can either make a Flow Specktrometer which automatically detects Traps (it runs on batteries though) or buy scrolls of Detect Traps. Traps themselves are not that dangerous. The fire one does do some damage and can even damage your armor if you fail to dodge it.

Heal is useful for tech oriented chars, companions included. Although I'd say it's preferable to just buy out heal oitments and/or craft them.

Spot traps works well with stealth chars because as far as I remember casting will reveal yourself and the fact that skill requires the same atribute helps. As for specktrometr - it devours batteries like a motherfucker. Disarm traps is somewhat useful but only because it returns some parts... impractical anyway, agree.

 

[Eirinjas]

I maintain New Vegas had good crafting and KotORII had OK crafting, but that is largely because they both had no dedicated crafting skill (crafting was only another way to utilize your existing skills) and KotOR2's was focused on turning resources useless to you (but not necessarily other builds) into upgrades for stuff you find, and New Vegas's built items were largely consumables or required such specific materials they were just a roundabout way to give special drops.

I played through almost the entirety of New Vegas without crafting, it was that useless.

 

[Iucounu]

Are "romancing skills" useless or just weird? Do any games use it for actual game progress, instead of just as a minigame with the weirdos player's "love interest"?

What games are you playing?
The only RPG I can think of where "romance" has any mechanical relevance is Fallout 2.

I tend to avoid such games. I was mostly curious if it had ever been done.

 

[Space Satan]

ADOM had ventriloquism and bridgebuilding skills.

 

[Ebonsword]

Crafting skill in NWN 2 - Just why. The loot you find is perfectly sufficient to defeat anything in the game.

You could craft some pretty great items in NWN2, from what I remember. Why just "sufficiently" defeat your enemies when you could cruelly crush them instead?

 

[Zlaja]

I hate it when you can pretty easily craft OP gear that shits all over most unique gear of legendary status in a game. Oh, look, I just found "Epic Legendary Doom Blade of Utter Destruction", but unfortunately it does less damage than my "Self-Made Pointy Stick" I made 5 minutes ago. Totally breaks immersion.

 

[Fedora Master]

Crafting skill in NWN 2 - Just why. The loot you find is perfectly sufficient to defeat anything in the game.

You could craft some pretty great items in NWN2, from what I remember. Why just "sufficiently" defeat your enemies when you could cruelly crush them instead?

The crafting system was a pain though

 

[VerSacrum]

I hate it when you can pretty easily craft OP gear that shits all over most unique gear of legendary status in a game. Oh, look, I just found "Epic Legendary Doom Blade of Utter Destruction", but unfortunately it does less damage than my "Self-Made Pointy Stick" I made 5 minutes ago. Totally breaks immersion.

I prefer finding items by exploration to shitting them out with menu prompts. Maybe an exception is the smithing in the classic Gothic games where applying for a craft job is part of the plot and you actually get animations and such
But as a whole crafting is cancer and should've been kept in MMO's, except for maybe utility items like potions and grenades

 

[deuxhero]

First Aid in Fallout 1/2

• Highly duplicates the more useful doctor skill
• Has no ability to heal crippled limbs, the most important use of doctor
• In theory, first aid kits are lighter and more common than doctor's bags. In practice, unless you savescum to get raider v. caravan random encounters in F2, first aid kits aren't actually all that common
• To my knowledge, there's zero skill checks in either game for first aid, but are a few for doctor
• In theory First Aid is a secondary skill due to being able to be raised to mid-levels by magazines where doctor can't. In practice, these magazines nearly always cost money that could just be spent on stimpaks.
• First Aid gives access to Healer, which just slightly boosts the mediocre recovery of First Aid. Doctor gives access to one of the game's best perks, which gives a fixed damage boost against most targets.

But you can use the skill w/o first aid kit. Still worthless though, sure. Also the doctor skill gives access to implants which are relatively useful (relatively because all those DTs won't work agaisnt crits). As for "one of the best perks" - lol dude +5 damage flat bonus is pretty fucking weak. Compare that say to +2(4) damage bonus but to every bullet from your minigun or bonus AP which translates to much more potential output not to mention the two which give up to 100% crit chance.

Sniper/Slayer have much, much higher requirements than Living Anatomy (level 24 and 8 in two special stats). Bonus Ranged Damage is better for burst weapon users, but Living Anatomy is still very good, and the two/three stack. Edit: Living Anatomy also applies at a different point in damage calculations, making it more effective against armored foes.

I maintain New Vegas had good crafting and KotORII had OK crafting, but that is largely because they both had no dedicated crafting skill (crafting was only another way to utilize your existing skills) and KotOR2's was focused on turning resources useless to you (but not necessarily other builds) into upgrades for stuff you find, and New Vegas's built items were largely consumables or required such specific materials they were just a roundabout way to give special drops.

I played through almost the entirety of New Vegas without crafting, it was that useless.

Depends on your build. It's vitally important for converting explosives, for users of rarer ammo types, or with Hand Loader/Vigilant Recycler

 

[NecroLord]

I hate it when you can pretty easily craft OP gear that shits all over most unique gear of legendary status in a game. Oh, look, I just found "Epic Legendary Doom Blade of Utter Destruction", but unfortunately it does less damage than my "Self-Made Pointy Stick" I made 5 minutes ago. Totally breaks immersion.

Look at this badboy...

 

[Gaznak]

I'm not sure about the worst ones globally but I'm sure about ones I hate personally. These are ones like Taunt, Bluff, Intimidation and so on, i.e. skills you can't use deliberately, when and where you want, or automatically (like, say, passive weapon boosts), but only where developers permitted and scripted it in dialogue options (and such dialogues are very seldom usually).

 

[jackofshadows]

Sniper/Slayer have much, much higher requirements than Living Anatomy (level 24 and 8 in two special stats). Bonus Ranged Damage is better for burst weapon users, but Living Anatomy is still very good, and the two/three stack. Edit: Living Anatomy also applies at a different point in damage calculations, making it more effective against armored foes.

I realize that sniper/slayer have the highest level requirements but then when you take either of them, your build is complete and you don't need a shitty +5 damage anymore/anyway. If anything, prior to that you'd want to pick something else which helps you to get there, like bonus move lets's say (to kite, to break line of sight etc) or bonus hp which is always useful. Or silent running. Or some atribute perks like sharpshooter or flat +1 bonus even. You also want to take for any ranged build prior to that better criticals, bonus rate of fire. Or 2 action boys/girls. Maybe pack rat. So you have this huge opportunity cost and there's just no room for a fucking +5 bonus damage. As for armored enemies. You want to crit them anyway so either use aimed shots/hits or get that slayer/sniper before meeting them and in those cases 5 dmg won't make a difference. Or at least take 3 more criticals idk if you ain't planning reach that lvl at all. In other words, pretty much anything is better until 24 lvl and then the game ends.

 

[anvi]

Tracking in every CRPG has been worthless.

Yea except EverQuest

 

[luj1]

Some of the best games and the best CRPGs had useless skills so it obviously does not matter. As someone said, asymetry is the lifeblood of games.

Worthless skills *should* exist. We are all familiar with the term "1-point wonder."

 

[e-mailio estevez]

I hate it when you can pretty easily craft OP gear that shits all over most unique gear of legendary status in a game. Oh, look, I just found "Epic Legendary Doom Blade of Utter Destruction", but unfortunately it does less damage than my "Self-Made Pointy Stick" I made 5 minutes ago. Totally breaks immersion.

I don't if the materials are equally rare. But they have to be Orichalcum-tier crafting materials in order to be that powerful IMO

 

[Zombra]

I hate it when you can pretty easily craft OP gear that shits all over most unique gear of legendary status in a game. Oh, look, I just found "Epic Legendary Doom Blade of Utter Destruction", but unfortunately it does less damage than my "Self-Made Pointy Stick" I made 5 minutes ago. Totally breaks immersion.

On the other hand you have "I just spent 15 hours gathering demon horns and mana stones to craft the Staff of Inspiration and then I tripped over a Staff of Inspiration +2 lying on the floor in the next dungeon" which is far worse imo. It's a tricky balance to be sure.

 

[Jacov]

Swimming in Deus Ex would have been okay, but they give you just enough rebreathers to explore all important underwater areas without investing a single skill point.

 

[Butter]

Swimming in Deus Ex would have been okay, but they give you just enough rebreathers to explore all important underwater areas without investing a single skill point.

Also Aqualung at the start of the game.