Vapourware WOTC restricting content creation in new OGL - Paizo launches competing OGL - lol cancelled

[RPK]

i think this one was pretty concise and comprehensive too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6mTl6eInA4

 

[Hagashager]

The only people that worry about this idiocy are ones unfamiliar with copyright and patent law.

Well, that's most people.

Yeah, obviously they can't stop people from using the mechanics. I'm happy to see WOTC slide into irrelevancy, though.

Me too. I'm hoping that Gary's ghost comes back and kills every single one of the motherfuckers that ruined his game system.

It's my understanding TSR attempted this very thing in the '80s and got rebuked in court for it. It's partly who they slowly went bankrupt. As a hobby PnP is very fun and dynamic, but as a business it's too niche and protected by Public Domain to be exploitable.


Gary Gygax is probably thinking "Yeah welcome to the club, Hasbro." more than anything.

 

[lukaszek]

are there any news whether its trully wotc work and not hasbro overlords? MTG is being milked haaaard over past years and its pretty clear where predatory ideas are coming from. There was even report made by consulting firm that was leaked stating how whole thing is not sustainable in long run and will drive customers away. Clearly overlords didnt care

 

[KainenMorden]

The only people that worry about this idiocy are ones unfamiliar with copyright and patent law.

Well, that's most people.

Yeah, obviously they can't stop people from using the mechanics. I'm happy to see WOTC slide into irrelevancy, though.

Me too. I'm hoping that Gary's ghost comes back and kills every single one of the motherfuckers that ruined his game system.

It's my understanding TSR attempted this very thing in the '80s and got rebuked in court for it. It's partly who they slowly went bankrupt. As a hobby PnP is very fun and dynamic, but as a business it's too niche and protected by Public Domain to be exploitable.


Gary Gygax is probably thinking "Yeah welcome to the club, Hasbro." more than anything.

Well, Gary has been dead for many years so, I doubt he's thinking anything

 

[RPK]

are there any news whether its trully wotc work and not hasbro overlords? MTG is being milked haaaard over past years and its pretty clear where predatory ideas are coming from. There was even report made by consulting firm that was leaked stating how whole thing is not sustainable in long run and will drive customers away. Clearly overlords didnt care

I am on a discord with a bunch of third party publishers. One of them has a friend who works for PC Gamer (i know, i know). this person says that they have a source in WOTC PR and they (PR folks) are all in open revolt, with no one willing to be the fall guy for this disaster.

There was supposed to be a live stream yesterday from WOTC and that was canceled with no explanation and ofc, today's blog post has been the only communication of any sort since last week from WOTC, so I tend to believe this.

 

[Abu Antar]

I smell bullshit

That's 100% bullshit. They can eat a dick.

How can you be certain of that?

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community. I'm no legal expert so it's difficult for me to say. From what I did see, I didn't get the impression they weren't going to allow anyone to stream dnd or were going to sue anyone who used the OGL to make a crpg.

And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose.

Which major companies are we talking about, exactly?

Driving these goals were two simple principles: (1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game, and (2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans. Nothing about those principles has wavered for a second.

OGL 1.0 was for the fans. The rest is utter bullshit, and if you disagree, ignorance is bliss.

That draft language was provided to content creators and publishers so their feedback could be considered before anything was finalized.

This was absolutely not how the leaked document read. It was to to screw content creators and publishers in the bum.

Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.

What it will not contain is any royalty structure. It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds. Under any new OGL, you will own the content you create. We won’t. Any language we put down will be crystal clear and unequivocal on that point. The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities.

That was what they were hoping to get away with.

Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.

If none of the above lies made you raise your eyebrows, These three sentences should. If this isn't a crystal clear us and them mentality, I don't know what is. They are fuming in their offices. You can read between the lines. Something that I tell my students is absolutely vital.

Our plan was always to solicit the input of our community before any update to the OGL; the drafts you’ve seen were attempting to do just that.

Fair enough, then where is said draft?


Either you work for WotC, or you're very naive. Whichever it is, you are free to have your own opinion about this whole thing. The above is only some of the stuff that makes me certain that this is all bullshit. They want control, nothing less.

One more quote, but I am quoting you this time.

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf

Companies are the most tone deaf entities in the universe. At least the bigger ones. Once you become the biggest in your area of operations, you will automatically become the arrogant company.

 

[KainenMorden]

I smell bullshit

That's 100% bullshit. They can eat a dick.

How can you be certain of that?

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community. I'm no legal expert so it's difficult for me to say. From what I did see, I didn't get the impression they weren't going to allow anyone to stream dnd or were going to sue anyone who used the OGL to make a crpg.

And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose.

Which major companies are we talking about, exactly?

Driving these goals were two simple principles: (1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game, and (2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans. Nothing about those principles has wavered for a second.

OGL 1.0 was for the fans. The rest is utter bullshit, and if you disagree, ignorance is bliss.

That draft language was provided to content creators and publishers so their feedback could be considered before anything was finalized.

This was absolutely not how the leaked document read. It was to to screw content creators and publishers in the bum.

Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.

What it will not contain is any royalty structure. It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds. Under any new OGL, you will own the content you create. We won’t. Any language we put down will be crystal clear and unequivocal on that point. The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities.

That was what they were hoping to get away with.

Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.

If none of the above lies made you raise your eyebrows, These three sentences should. If this isn't a crystal clear us and them mentality, I don't know what is. They are fuming in their offices. You can read between the lines. Something that I tell my students is absolutely vital.

Our plan was always to solicit the input of our community before any update to the OGL; the drafts you’ve seen were attempting to do just that.

Fair enough, then where is said draft?


Either you work for WotC, or you're very naive. Whichever it is, you are free to have your own opinion about this whole thing. The above is only some of the stuff that makes me certain that this is all bullshit. They want control, nothing less.

One more quote, but I am quoting you this time.

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf

Companies are the most tone deaf entities in the universe. At least the bigger ones. Once you become the biggest in your area of operations, you will automatically become the arrogant company.

I suppose the more Im reading on it, the more it seems they really were that crazy to attempt something like this.

 

[Delterius]

are there any news whether its trully wotc work and not hasbro overlords? MTG is being milked haaaard over past years and its pretty clear where predatory ideas are coming from. There was even report made by consulting firm that was leaked stating how whole thing is not sustainable in long run and will drive customers away. Clearly overlords didnt care

from what i understand the people in charge of wotc nowadays are hasbro appointees from large corporations like amazon. there's no dichotomy to be found here. if the hasbronic overlord demands it, then so does wotc.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

However, it’s clear from the reaction that we rolled a 1. It has become clear that it is no longer possible to fully achieve all three goals while still staying true to our principles. So, here is what we are doing.

Why do these bitches feel the need to talk all cutesy and funny about legal documents that affect businesses of many people. Was this even written by an adult? "Eehehehe, guess Wizard-chan did a little oooopsie, please don't be mad senpais". Fuck off with this shit.

 

[Hagashager]

However, it’s clear from the reaction that we rolled a 1. It has become clear that it is no longer possible to fully achieve all three goals while still staying true to our principles. So, here is what we are doing.

Why do these bitches feel the need to talk all cutesy and funny about legal documents that affect businesses of many people. Was this even written by an adult? "Eehehehe, guess Wizard-chan did a little oooopsie, please don't be mad senpais". Fuck off with this shit.

That shit drives me nuts. There's making language easy to grasp and then there's undermining the severity with sarcasm and mockery.


I got my degree in Business Law specifically. Legal decorum and vernacular is taken *extremely* seriously. Seeing jackass Youtubers turn it into memes hurts my soul and makes me genuinely cringe.

 

[The_Mask]

If you think you can be better, do better and take over the market, do so. D&D doesn't want to be leader anymore... why sue? Why beg? Just compete.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I am not now nor have I ever been an employee of wotc

... but now you have some content to link to here to try and leverage for a position. We see you, future community manager scum.

 

[Caim]

If you think you can be better, do better and take over the market, do so. D&D doesn't want to be leader anymore... why sue? Why beg? Just compete.

TL;DR version: Paizo is going to create the Open RPG Creative License, aka the ORC License, with help of the guy who laid the groundwork for the OGL. Several other publishers like Chaosium, Kobold Press, Green Ronin and more have thrown their lot in with Paizo, with more coming.

Now all WotC has to do is call them racist because Orcs are obviously based on black people and they've already won.

 

[Jaedar]

are there any news whether its trully wotc work and not hasbro overlords? MTG is being milked haaaard over past years and its pretty clear where predatory ideas are coming from. There was even report made by consulting firm that was leaked stating how whole thing is not sustainable in long run and will drive customers away. Clearly overlords didnt care

from what i understand the people in charge of wotc nowadays are hasbro appointees from large corporations like amazon. there's no dichotomy to be found here. if the hasbronic overlord demands it, then so does wotc.

This surprises me a bit. I remember historically, people in wotc basically saying "nah, hasbro basically leaves us alone. We're a relatively small part of their total revenue, the hasbro management has more important things to focus on".

I guess times change.

 

[RPK]

are there any news whether its trully wotc work and not hasbro overlords? MTG is being milked haaaard over past years and its pretty clear where predatory ideas are coming from. There was even report made by consulting firm that was leaked stating how whole thing is not sustainable in long run and will drive customers away. Clearly overlords didnt care

from what i understand the people in charge of wotc nowadays are hasbro appointees from large corporations like amazon. there's no dichotomy to be found here. if the hasbronic overlord demands it, then so does wotc.

This surprises me a bit. I remember historically, people in wotc basically saying "nah, hasbro basically leaves us alone. We're a relatively small part of their total revenue, the hasbro management has more important things to focus on".

I guess times change.

things changed about a year ago when an investor looked closely at hasbro's numbers and realized that D&D and MtG accounted for about 50% of Hasbro's profits. There was even a call for Hasbro to spin off WOTC so it could make money on its own. You'd have to do some reading on that part yourself as I don't care enough about big business to understand the why's of that.

Now on all of their investor calls, people keep asking about how they are going to grow income from these two brands. that's how you end up with the overprint/reprint bs from MtG last year that had that community up in arms and the D&D crap this year.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If you think you can be better, do better and take over the market, do so. D&D doesn't want to be leader anymore... why sue? Why beg? Just compete.

OGL already exists tho.

 

[mediocrepoet]

If you think you can be better, do better and take over the market, do so. D&D doesn't want to be leader anymore... why sue? Why beg? Just compete.

OGL already exists tho.

Sure but if you make a separate thing that's not under corporate control you can eliminate any possible intimidation factor that could deter small businesses or amateur creators. You can also snake the good will WOTC had generated through it and eliminate the free brand exposure that they'd gotten for D&D editions in the future.

If it pans out, it'll mean that WOTC colossally shit the bed this time.

 

[Delterius]

I guess times change.

things changed about a year ago when an investor looked closely at hasbro's numbers and realized that D&D and MtG accounted for about 50% of Hasbro's profits.

some older executive must have lost their mind when they were asked to license a movie with young captain kirk in it and the rest is history

 

[rusty_shackleford]

things changed about a year ago when an investor looked closely at hasbro's numbers and realized that D&D and MtG accounted for about 50% of Hasbro's profits.

hasbro stopped reporting D&D on their quarterly reports because it makes such little money
wotc is just a holding company for mtg

 

[Delterius]

If you think you can be better, do better and take over the market, do so. D&D doesn't want to be leader anymore... why sue? Why beg? Just compete.

OGL already exists tho.

At the end of the day, sure, we can make reasonable assumptions that the OGL can't be revoked, or that tabletop mechanics can't be IP'd but what the OGL does is actually agree with these assumptions. It is essentially a non aggression pact where everybody agrees not to test these assumptions in court. It is key for every 3PP because margins aren't any good in this industry and while people like Lisa Stevens are independently wealthy they aren't looking to have a battle of the warchests against Hasbro. This whole thing about 'ORC' is an attempt by Paizo and the other 3PPs to preserve the ecosystem as it is, and prevent someone like WotC or even future Paizo themselves from taking their ball and going home out of stupid greed.

 

[Jaedar]

that's how you end up with the overprint/reprint bs from MtG last year that had that community up in arms and the D&D crap this year.

I completely stopped paying attention to MTG like 3 years ago (even just looking at the cards, which I kept doing for a few years after I stopped playing actively).

Kinda upset I missed out on some grade A butthurt

 

[RPK]

that's how you end up with the overprint/reprint bs from MtG last year that had that community up in arms and the D&D crap this year.

I completely stopped paying attention to MTG like 3 years ago (even just looking at the cards, which I kept doing for a few years after I stopped playing actively).

Kinda upset I missed out on some grade A butthurt

honestly, I've never played it. that sort of game just never really appealed to me, not sure why. So, everything I know about the situation is 2nd-hand info. Apparently they printed some 1000 dollar "collectors" thing that people hated and actually reprinted some rare cards that had promised in the past to never be reprinted.

 

[lukaszek]

end up with the overprint/reprint bs from MtG last year that had that community up in arms

its actually a bit longer process and a chain of decisions. Afaik arena is the money maker of mtg right now and most uproars were caused there. As for physical cards indeed there was a decision made to have more releases.
To keep up with new releases tempo they changed design process so they spend less time looking for interactions with old cards.
To make people buy new sets they are involved in unprecedented power creep.
Which finally resulted in banning announcements being common.

Arena got those problems, and more since they introduced digital only cards! For such money maker you would be surprised how poor state client is in. And apparently its impossible to implement games involving more than 2 players!

 

[lukaszek]

Apparently they printed some 1000 dollar "collectors" thing that people hated and actually reprinted some rare cards that had promised in the past to never be reprinted.

They didnt reprint those cards, they basically introduced most expensive proxies, known fake prints.

Nothing tops when in arena they had first rotation and kind of didnt know what to do. They wanted to milk standard so as after thought they introduced historic, basically play anything format(thats implemented on arena).
But it was not enough. Original page was deleted, but they decided that to redeem istoric cards, you need 2 wildcards instead of 1. And reason was to keep game healthy or something along the lines of it being good for community.
I think it was the only decision that they walked back on, even though they keep comming up with amazing ideas

 

[RPK]

Apparently they printed some 1000 dollar "collectors" thing that people hated and actually reprinted some rare cards that had promised in the past to never be reprinted.

They didnt reprint those cards, they basically introduced most expensive proxies, known fake prints.

Nothing tops when in arena they had first rotation and kind of didnt know what to do. They wanted to milk standard so as after thought they introduced historic, basically play anything format(thats implemented on arena).
But it was not enough. Original page was deleted, but they decided that to redeem istoric cards, you need 2 wildcards instead of 1. And reason was to keep game healthy or something along the lines of it being good for community.
I think it was the only decision that they walked back on, even though they keep comming up with amazing ideas

that's interesting. thanks for the clarification.