Vapourware WOTC restricting content creation in new OGL - Paizo launches competing OGL - lol cancelled

[JamesDixon]

WotC has left to offer is innovative mechanics and design

What makes D&D valuable are the trademarks, the market presence, the history, the settings, and the accompanying adventures it owns. It's not the rules. However, when it comes to all of the aforementioned items Wizards is doing a good job of devaluing their product.

there would still be Players Handbooks, DMGs, MMs, new adventures, CRPGs, etc coming out.

OSR is thing now and people are publishing their own version of D&D and have since the late 1990s. Hackmaster was a specific licensed version of AD&D 2E that ended up going its own route when the license expired.

You still need publishing, but with the advent of print on demand services like Lulu and DTRPG as a game company you can easily outsource it like traditional book publishers do.

 

[PapaPetro]

WotC has left to offer is innovative mechanics and design

What makes D&D valuable are the trademarks, the market presence, the history, the settings, and the accompanying adventures it owns. It's not the rules. However, when it comes to all of the aforementioned items Wizards is doing a good job of devaluing their product.

there would still be Players Handbooks, DMGs, MMs, new adventures, CRPGs, etc coming out.

OSR is thing now and people are publishing their own version of D&D and have since the late 1990s. Hackmaster was a specific licensed version of AD&D 2E that ended up going its own route when the license expired.

You still need publishing, but with the advent of print on demand services like Lulu and DTRPG as a game company you can easily outsource it like traditional book publishers do.

That's my point, D&D has outgrown Wizards or any single business owner for that matter. It's an outdated model of IP development considering that most of that come from outside any single company can produce in terms of both quality and quantity.

Considering that Hasbro/WotC are public for-profit corporations, it would make sense for them to sell D&D for a profit right now regardless who the buyer. So why not sell to the Public on a Kickstarter and see how much it would cost to take D&D into the Public Domain.

 

[Grauken]

That's my point, D&D has outgrown Wizards or any single business owner for that matter. It's an outdated model of IP development considering that most of that come from outside any single company can produce in terms of both quality and quantity.

Very weird way to look at the business world

 

[Abu Antar]

An Update on the Open Game License (OGL)​

• by DND Beyond Staff
  1 hour ago

TagsD&D NEWS D&D BEYOND STUDIO BLOG
When we initially conceived of revising the OGL, it was with three major goals in mind. First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products. Second, we wanted to address those attempting to use D&D in web3, blockchain games, and NFTs by making clear that OGL content is limited to tabletop roleplaying content like campaigns, modules, and supplements. And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose.
Driving these goals were two simple principles: (1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game, and (2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans. Nothing about those principles has wavered for a second.
That was why our early drafts of the new OGL included the provisions they did. That draft language was provided to content creators and publishers so their feedback could be considered before anything was finalized. In addition to language allowing us to address discriminatory and hateful conduct and clarifying what types of products the OGL covers, our drafts included royalty language designed to apply to large corporations attempting to use OGL content. It was never our intent to impact the vast majority of the community.
However, it’s clear from the reaction that we rolled a 1. It has become clear that it is no longer possible to fully achieve all three goals while still staying true to our principles. So, here is what we are doing.
The next OGL will contain the provisions that allow us to protect and cultivate the inclusive environment we are trying to build and specify that it covers only content for TTRPGs. That means that other expressions, such as educational and charitable campaigns, livestreams, cosplay, VTT-uses, etc., will remain unaffected by any OGL update. Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.
What it will not contain is any royalty structure. It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds. Under any new OGL, you will own the content you create. We won’t. Any language we put down will be crystal clear and unequivocal on that point. The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities. As we continue to invest in the game that we love and move forward with partnerships in film, television, and digital games, that risk is simply too great to ignore. The new OGL will contain provisions to address that risk, but we will do it without a license back and without suggesting we have rights to the content you create. Your ideas and imagination are what makes this game special, and that belongs to you.
A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.
Our plan was always to solicit the input of our community before any update to the OGL; the drafts you’ve seen were attempting to do just that. We want to always delight fans and create experiences together that everyone loves. We realize we did not do that this time and we are sorry for that. Our goal was to get exactly the type of feedback on which provisions worked and which did not–which we ultimately got from you. Any change this major could only have been done well if we were willing to take that feedback, no matter how it was provided–so we are. Thank you for caring enough to let us know what works and what doesn’t, what you need and what scares you. Without knowing that, we can’t do our part to make the new OGL match our principles. Finally, we’d appreciate the chance to make this right. We love D&D’s devoted players and the creators who take them on so many incredible adventures. We won’t let you down.

 

[Grauken]

I smell bullshit

also this

 

[Abu Antar]

I smell bullshit

That's 100% bullshit. They can eat a dick.

 

[KainenMorden]

I smell bullshit

That's 100% bullshit. They can eat a dick.

How can you be certain of that?

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community. I'm no legal expert so it's difficult for me to say. From what I did see, I didn't get the impression they weren't going to allow anyone to stream dnd or were going to sue anyone who used the OGL to make a crpg.

 

[Acrux]

It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds.

 

[Grauken]

How can you be certain of that?

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community. I'm no legal expert so it's difficult for me to say. From what I did see, I didn't get the impression they weren't going to allow anyone to stream dnd or were going to sue anyone who used the OGL to make a crpg.

This wasn't a draft in the first place, people have been sent contracts with the "Sign now or you're fucked" threats

Also WOTC doesn't really care about book publishing anymore (look at their sparse release schedule) they want to own the VTT space and kill all and every competition, Kobold Press and Paizo and all the smaller ones are either collateral or intended targets. If you get 25% from someone's revenue, that means basically he goes belly under. They meant to fuck with the whole TTRPG space, this was all intentional

 

[KainenMorden]

How can you be certain of that?

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community. I'm no legal expert so it's difficult for me to say. From what I did see, I didn't get the impression they weren't going to allow anyone to stream dnd or were going to sue anyone who used the OGL to make a crpg.

This wasn't a draft in the first place, people have been sent contracts with the "Sign now or you're fucked" threats

Also WOTC doesn't really care about book publishing anymore (look at their sparse release schedule) they want to own the VTT space and kill all and every competition, Kobold Press and Paizo and all the smaller ones are either collateral or intended targets. If you get 25% from someone's revenue, that means basically he goes belly under. They meant to fuck with the whole TTRPG space, this was all intentional

Do you mind linking me where a company was sent such a letter? I wasn't aware of this

 

[Grauken]

Do you mind linking me where a company was sent such a letter? I wasn't aware of this

That's not the kind of stuff people usually publish on the net without lawyering up, but check out the usual youtube crowd like Roll for Combat who produce their own TTRPGs and are well connected in the industry

 

[PapaPetro]

That's my point, D&D has outgrown Wizards or any single business owner for that matter. It's an outdated model of IP development considering that most of that come from outside any single company can produce in terms of both quality and quantity.

Very weird way to look at the business world

Business-wise, WotC is holding back D&D.
There be more business without them.
It logically follows.

 

[Jaedar]

When we initially conceived of revising the OGL, it was with three major goals in mind. First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products. Second, we wanted to address those attempting to use D&D in web3, blockchain games, and NFTs by making clear that OGL content is limited to tabletop roleplaying content like campaigns, modules, and supplements. And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose.

If someone believes this, there's a bridge I'd like to sell them.

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community.

Good sir, I own a bridge in central new york. I'm in a bit of a pickle and need money stat, so it could be yours for a measly 10.000$!

 

[KainenMorden]

Do you mind linking me where a company was sent such a letter? I wasn't aware of this

That's not the kind of stuff people usually publish on the net without lawyering up, but check out the usual youtube crowd like Roll for Combat who produce their own TTRPGs and are well connected in the industry

I'll check it out.

When we initially conceived of revising the OGL, it was with three major goals in mind. First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products. Second, we wanted to address those attempting to use D&D in web3, blockchain games, and NFTs by making clear that OGL content is limited to tabletop roleplaying content like campaigns, modules, and supplements. And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose.

If someone believes this, there's a bridge I'd like to sell them.

I'm undecided on if this is all damage control or if the whole situation has been misunderstood by the community.

Good sir, I own a bridge in central new york. I'm in a bit of a pickle and need money stat, so it could be yours for a measly 10.000$!

I'll send you that money if you can explain what was stated in the "leak".

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf and try to shut down huge parts of their community and expect no backlash or would fake an info leak to guage the community's response. Just seemed unlikely to me.

Even them trying to shut down future editions of Pathfinder seemed unlikely to me.

Unless Paizo says they received a cease and desist, I think most of what is said here and elsewhere is bs.

 

[Grauken]

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf and try to shut down huge parts of their community and expect no backlash or would fake an info leak to guage the community's response. Just seemed unlikely to me.

I wish all our customers were like you

 

[KainenMorden]

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf and try to shut down huge parts of their community and expect no backlash or would fake an info leak to guage the community's response. Just seemed unlikely to me.

I wish all our customers were like you

I think too many people are listening to the opinions of others who are not legal experts and just regurgitating things without evidence. I also think most of these people couldn't begin to explain what was stated in the "leak".

Large companies do foolish things at times but again, seems very unlikely they were going to try to put all competition out of business.

I also don't buy the story that contracts were sent out and companies were pressured to sign. Sounds like someone is mistaken repeating stuff like that or is just talking bs.

 

[Jaedar]

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf and try to shut down huge parts of their community and expect no backlash or would fake an info leak to guage the community's response. Just seemed unlikely to me.

They probably expected that no one would care about some legal document, in the same way no one cares about the TOS or EULA. Instead it went viral.

Faking leaks to gauge community reaction with plausible deniability (oh is super old beta build of the game, this has nothing to do with current state of development!!) is in the standard playbook at this point.

I'll send you that money if you can explain what was stated in the "leak".

You can use our stuff, but if you do, we can shut you down whenever we like and assume direct control of all the content you created on top of ours, including selling it to other parties.

 

[Delterius]

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf

do we live in the same reality

 

[KainenMorden]

I found it hard to believe a company would be that tone deaf and try to shut down huge parts of their community and expect no backlash or would fake an info leak to guage the community's response. Just seemed unlikely to me.

They probably expected that no one would care about some legal document, in the same way no one cares about the TOS or EULA. Instead it went viral.

Faking leaks to gauge community reaction with plausible deniability (oh is super old beta build of the game, this has nothing to do with current state of development!!) is in the standard playbook at this point.

I'll send you that money if you can explain what was stated in the "leak".

You can use our stuff, but if you do, we can shut you down whenever we like and assume direct control of all the content you created on top of ours, including selling it to other parties.

Well, they claim that was in there to stop people from using it to make racist games, I believe they used the term non inclusive.

Look, they are obviously leftists there or pandering to leftists.

The new demographic that has grown dnd are all leftists.

Did they really think they were going to do this and no one would say anything?

It's not impossible I just find it hard to believe.

But I did read there was a leak of the new OGL that had something to do with royalties. I haven't seen it but I would imagine if that's accurate then they really thought they could pull this off.

 

[RPK]

There are a lot of youtube videos you can go watch where people quote directly from contracts...er... drafts that were provided to them if you want to engage in an informed conversation instead of continuing to speculate.

The "draft" contains specific language that WOTC can pull your ability to publish on a whim and can publish anything you have created as their own content however they see fit whenever they want without paying you anything. it's very cut and dried.

 

[Jaedar]

Did they really think they were going to do this and no one would say anything?

Of course someone would say something, it's the internet. They probably just didn't expect enough people to say something to make videos about it top recommended content on youtube.

Well, they claim that was in there to stop people from using it to make racist games, I believe they used the term non inclusive.

Yeah, I'm sure they considered this an added bonus, and something sweet to help the community swallow a bitter pill. A lot of leftists have shown a scary amount of acceptance for despotism when it's promised to be wielded "against the baddies".

it's very cut and dried.

Yeah. It's technically better than standard copyright deal (you can't do anything ever), but if you accept it it's basically "if you do anything ever, we have a stranglehold on you so complete you may as well just sign over your company and hope for our benevolance"

 

[Grauken]

There are a lot of youtube videos you can go watch where people quote directly from contracts...er... drafts that were provided to them if you want to engage in an informed conversation instead of continuing to speculate.

The "draft" contains specific language that WOTC can pull your ability to publish on a whim and can publish anything you have created as their own content however they see fit whenever they want without paying you anything. it's very cut and dried.

Kainen sounds like a plant

 

[KainenMorden]

There are a lot of youtube videos you can go watch where people quote directly from contracts...er... drafts that were provided to them if you want to engage in an informed conversation instead of continuing to speculate.

The "draft" contains specific language that WOTC can pull your ability to publish on a whim and can publish anything you have created as their own content however they see fit whenever they want without paying you anything. it's very cut and dried.

Ok, can you name 1 such YouTube channel

 

[KainenMorden]

I'll watch roll for combat vid later, thanks guys.

I am not now nor have I ever been an employee of wotc

 

[RPK]

I'll watch roll for combat vid later, thanks guys.

I am not now nor have I ever been an employee of wotc

that's a good one