WRPG & JRPG Hybrid

[Cat Dude]

Nobody mentioned Anachronox.

It is western made Jrpg just like Septerra Core and Sudeki.

 

[Machocruz]

The way they implemented it was super goofy, and it generally all fed back into combat, whether by making equipment, money, or assisting/teaching other characters non combat stuff, but it was actually fun to tinker with, which is what really matters. And it had some cool non-mechanical effects as well; pickpocketing or counterfeiting could affect relationships and party morale, writing great books could get you publishing deals, making certain gadgets would enable cutscenes with certain characters. So many moments in that game were pleasant surprises that tied back to something seemingly unimportant you were doing earlier.

You’re talking about Star Ocean: Till the End of Time, right? I played that a long time ago when it was first released, and I remember really enjoying it. I’ll have to revisit it sometime soon.

and a ton of non combat skills and mechanics, most of which were done pretty well imo.

JRPGs can def. use more of this. Less separation between combat and the rest of the game world in general.

I agree and it is something I’ve tried hard to focus on.
So far, we’ve implemented; Burglary (lockpicking and disable device), fishing, taming, pickpocketing, haggling, and knowledge checks to decipher ancient books/runes.
I’d like to come up with more fun things to do with the day/night cycle. Currently it is used for NPC schedules, story stuff and breaking into houses at night.

So in SO2 you can pickpocket townspeople or something? That's actually quite progressive skill usage/interactivity for JRPGs in my book. My model for this kind of thing is BG2. Its something that Bioware got very right. So since rogue skills have been mentioned: as you know, in BG2 that class can do quite a bit outside of and before combat. Detect traps, disarm them, unlock doors, unlock chests, pickpocket, scout, recon enemy positions and, because combat and exploration are on the same layer, bring in a ranged class to get in a preemptive attack while the enemy is unawares. Or unhide your thief and lure the enemies back to your (pre-buffed) party for an ambush. I can't think of a JRPG that allows all this, to the same degree at least. Not that many CRPGs do either, for that matter. The ability to have individual party members break off and do their own thing is also rare among video games - although aside from the rogue, I never had much use for breaking up the party in BG2.

Anyway, I would harm a child to see this level of extra-combat activity in some JRPGs.

 

[Reinhardt]

In Octopath Traveler each party member has its own way to interract with every NPC.

 

[Modron]

There are a lot of western JRPGs, not even counting indie rpgmaker affairs,: Summoner 1/2 (granted the first was less JRPG like than the sequel), Sudeki, Silver, Gorky 17, Septerra Core, Anachronox, et cetera. Even Dink Smallwood was a western Zelda.

Edit forgot Gladius.

 

[Pots Talos]

Anyway, I would harm a child to see this level of extra-combat activity in some JRPGs.

I'm aiming to do many of the things you listed.

There are a lot of western JRPGs, not even counting indie rpgmaker affairs,: Summoner 1/2 (granted the first was less JRPG like than the sequel), Sudeki, Silver, Gorky 17, Septerra Core, Anachronox, et cetera. Even Dink Smallwood was a western Zelda.

Edit forgot Gladius.

But what about these games make them a western JRPG?
Is it just that they were developed in the West? I'm looking for examples of JRPGs that put strong WRPG elements into them.

 

[Falksi]

Depends how you define an RPG in the first place I suppose.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Albion

 

[paperjack]

What kind of traits does a JRPG have, and what kind of traits does a WRPG have?
And which ones are you going to pick for your combination?
I feel that "JRPG WRPG combo" is very poorly defined.

 

[Tyranicon]

I feel that "JRPG WRPG combo" is very poorly defined.

It's poorly defined because people still argue what constitutes a JRPG or w/cRPG.

It mostly "Japanese gameplay/aesthetics mixed with western gameplay/aesthetics" at this point.

 

[paperjack]

It mostly "Japanese gameplay/aesthetics mixed with western gameplay/aesthetics" at this point.

Is it even possible to differentiate gameplay between japanese and western?

 

[V_K]

It mostly "Japanese gameplay/aesthetics mixed with western gameplay/aesthetics" at this point.

Is it even possible to differentiate gameplay between japanese and western?

It's not so much a difference between them, as WRPGs being defined somewhat apophatically, as "not JRPGs". JRPGs, on the contrary, are usually understood - by non-JRPG players - very narrowly, basically as Final Fantasy clones. When a WRPG player says "JRPG" he more or less means a game with fixed, non-customizable protagonists, automatic leveling, linear plot, abstracted Wizardry-style combat and non-interactive dialogs; while WRPG for him could mean any number of things that could be opposed to a JPRG in this sense.
Point is, gameplay-wise, you can have a hybrid that is a "WRPG with JRPG elements" but not the other way around, at least from a WRPG player point of view.

 

[Sigourn]

Is it even possible to differentiate gameplay between japanese and western?

When people say WRPG and JRPG they say it in context. A lot of sites ignore said terms altogether in favor of "RPG" and that's it, which is why you see lists with Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy alongside Fallout or Baldur's Gate II. Some Codexers may be upset at the idea that the former are universally seen as superior to the latter, but in the end most RPGs play differently: Wizardry doesn't play like Fallout and they are both American RPGs. Same with Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy Tactics.

However, just because different games play differently it doesn't mean that games produced for a certain market (and THIS is where I think the key difference lies: not the country the game was made in, not the nationality of the people who made the games, but the market the games were made for: generally, the country where these games were released first) don't share certain characteristics. The American market grew up with Dungeons and Dragons and by extension D&D-like computer RPGs. The Japanese market grew up with Dragon Quest and Dragon Quest clones. Most games released in each market followed the trends.

A WRPG & JRPG hybrid is very hard to imagine, but it already exists: Planescape: Torment mixes the importance JRPGs usually gave to the story and characters, with the freedom to develop your own character WRPGs had.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'd say that's mostly accurate, but the markets have changed over time. At this point they're pretty melded together. Something like Dark Souls absolutely looks like a game made for the western market, certainly moreso than something like the latest Diablo games or Path of Exile, which would fit right in in japan.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Is it even possible to differentiate gameplay between japanese and western?

People using the term "WRPG" should be using it to mean Western-developed RPGs in contrast to Japanese-developed RPGs rather than in contrast to the JRPG subgenre. Before Demon's/Dark Souls, most (all?) of the more popular Japanese-developed RPGs in the West belonged to the JRPG subgenre, but the Japanese CRPG market itself was considerably more varied. Wizardry-likes established themselves as a permanent fixture in Japan even as they died out in the West, the original Final Fantasy directly ripped off D&D in addition to being influenced by Ultima and Wizardry, the King's Field series were Underworld-likes, et cetera, and since 2009 Japanese developers have created several excellent action-RPGs. Even if Japanese-developed RPGs have been more concentrated in particular subgenres than Western-developed RPGs, both are far too varied and overlapping to differentiate between their gameplay, especially as many Western RPG developers themselves in the last 22 years have chosen to imitate the JRPG subgenre by focusing on narrative at the expense of gameplay.

 

[Delterius]

as many Western RPG developers themselves in the last 22 years have chosen to imitate the JRPG subgenre by focusing on narrative at the expense of gameplay.

I think its fairer to say that the western shifts towards narrative are, in style and in frequency, a homegrown affair.

Its not like the 'classic JRPG' is a walking sim. Like you said, its very much defined by their own take on mid-ling Ultima and especially Wizardry. So it alternates between long hours of gameplay and a few minutes of narrative feedback from time to time.

Western rpgs also had their own balance of narrative and gameplay, from the latter ultimas through the late 90s.

In my view the transition towards graphics fueled, cinematic games is something that happens everywhere in parallel. It happened to the japanese giants as Squeenix set their trademark on pushing console graphical power and it happened to, say, BioWare as it suffers the influence of action cinematic games from the west as an existential crisis over how much money they can bring into the table.

It is those temptations that cause developers to lose sight that, even if their fans want to 'play an Anime' they want to play it nonetheless.

 

[aweigh]

nobody uses "wrpg" term except weebs who are desperate to make it seem like jrpgs and crpgs are parallels of each other or on some sort of equal footing; all rpgs are intrinsically "western" as they were all created in the west.

anyway anachronox is the big one for western-made jrpg-style games. also doesn't really get much more "western" than Wizardry-style dungeon crawling and there are lots of japanese rpgs that feature something like that, specifically Elminage which is the continuation of Wizardry. something like elminage cannot be called a JRPG but it is a japanese RPG that plays like a crpg.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Return to Krondor always reminded me of what a JRPG from a western developer would look like. It's combat is very typical '90s JRPG combat, but aesthetically it's very western.