- Joined
- May 18, 2015
- Messages
- 5,132
Which is exactly why it was a great move from their part. Also benefits the gamers as it provides a huge amount of replayability. This should become a thing in the gaming industry.
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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
Ivan
Arcane
Finished. All in all, I loved it. The first half of the game is easily more tiring than the latter half. Keeping your guys alive and developing their skills is so vital. This in turn makes the second half more ordinary once you find you're groove (3 grenadiers+1sniper+2specialists). I'm particularly impressed with the presentation, the cutscenes, all good fun stuff. Now for some highlights:
360 no look
Result Sheet
And dat expansion tease.
Can't wait for more (well, going to start Ironman Commander or....Age of Decadence/Underrail)
:kwafuckyeah:
360 no look
Result Sheet
Can't wait for more (well, going to start Ironman Commander or....Age of Decadence/Underrail)
:kwafuckyeah:
17 lost? When? I'm kinda in the moment I got
and my roster took 0 loses. And a massive amount of gravely wounded
Does it get harder?
codex brain and vial decyphered
and my roster took 0 loses. And a massive amount of gravely wounded
Does it get harder?
Ivan
Arcane
Not much harder, but some enemies hit hard. Reflecting on that result sheet, 17 seems high. Things that killed me most: the Advent Stunners critting (esp early on) and Sectopods. Ohhhh ya, having my single healer get hit and bleed out was a memorable loss.
Campaign is surprisingly lengthy, you've got a ways to go. Enjoy it!
Campaign is surprisingly lengthy, you've got a ways to go. Enjoy it!
The worst part of all this is to wait expansions and dlcs for having more.
The campaign can be filled with a lot of additional stuff (equip tiers, new environments, new mission types, new enemies, new classes, etc.)
hurry up Firaxis pls, we wanna more
The campaign can be filled with a lot of additional stuff (equip tiers, new environments, new mission types, new enemies, new classes, etc.)
hurry up Firaxis pls, we wanna more
Grampy_Bone
Arcane
Seems like an okay game. Second Verse, same as the first. Classes are different but the same. Heavy/Grenadier is still ridiculous; shoot twice and carpet-bomb everything with explosives. Sniper now gets the ability to shoot a crappier gun? Lame. Specialist can heal, give support at range, and are the best hackers. Neat. Assault got some love with some stealth skills. I like how PSI is it's own class now, it was too powerful before on regular soldiers. I don't mind the mission timers or the doomclock, they seem manageable.
But it has pretty much all the same problems as the original:
One Base Limit - This makes even less sense this time around. I can't think of a worse setup for an underground resistance organization than a single easily-visible aircraft with all the senior command and support staff on board. How is the Avenger not bombarded with 10,000 cruise missiles the moment it takes off? Did I miss the explanation that it's a 'stealth ship?' I get that the devs wanted to keep things simple and not have to deal with multiple bases, but it's really not that hard if the original XCOM could do it 20 years ago. Also, why the hell are you limited to only one Skyranger? This makes even less sense. "Commander, two missions have appeared but we can only respond to one of them!" Well whose fucking fault is that, jackass? I looked around for the 'Buy a second transport' button but there isn't one, so I'm forced to play like an idiot. Hey geniuses, what are you going to do if the Skyranger gets shot down? Why can't Shadowy Council Guy see the obvious tactical utility of having two response teams? Who's in charge of this mission, Hillary Clinton?!
Wacky Resource Model - In a game that seems to prioritize simplification, this whole resource model is pretty convoluted. It's just as poorly explained as the importance of Satellite Relays in the first game, and the dependencies of radio rooms and ground coverage makes as much sense as a facebook game. Then you have to shuffle workers around efficiently in this tiny 3x4 space without really knowing what you are doing or what's going to happen as the game goes on. How is this simpler than plopping down a bunch of radar dishes? The devs say they want to force the player to make hard choices but the reality is these decisions actually deny choice. With so few options there's pretty much only one *right* way to play the game.
Cover isn't actually cover - The cover system in the game is laughably arbitrary and nonsensical; and sadly it's spreading, although I think Wasteland 2 used it better. Previous games in this genre would trace projectiles through the game world and check for collisions; if there was a wall between your soldier and an enemy, then your shot would hit the wall and not the enemy. Simple and intuitive. But in XCOM the intervening objects don't seem to matter. Only the designated Cover Object next to a soldier or mob is considered in the 'cover' calculation and everything in between is discarded. This leads to absurd situations where an enemy in plain view can't be hit because he's standing behind a lamp post, while an enemy behind a huge metal container is considered a fair target because he's only standing next to a small box. Every time I see bullets magically pass through walls or even the ground I cringe. This is like a bug that made it through beta and they just left it. How can a game made in the 90's model line of sight more accurately than a game released in 2016?
No manual aiming - I know I sound like a broken record but in the previous games it was a perfectly viable tactic to just hose down an area with bullets and hope for the best. I like that Spray-and-pray abilities are now available for Heavies (making them even more awesome) but this really should be a normal skill for everyone. I should be able to shoot at walls or objects without having a designated target. I also miss being able to choose between careful shot, snap shot, and burst shot but oh well. Grenades destroy cover nicely but your soldiers are all pitiful wimps who only carry one at a time.
The fucking Reaction Move - When the devs talked up the concealment feature they made it sound like the enemy reaction move was going away, but it's back and it's just as bullshit as ever. Stop me if this sounds familiar: You move your last guy into place and trigger an enemy group at the edge of your field of vision. They immediately use their free move to rush straight towards your team, then begin their actual turn by moving to point blank range and annihilate your squad. Lol u suck, lern2play and gitgud n00bz!
Yeah, fuck you Firaxis. I get why they did this. The game would be too easy if you could catch every enemy out of cover and blast them before they get a turn. But the reaction move is the most retarded way to solve this issue I can think of. Enemies getting a free move right in the middle of your turn is so jarring and immersion-breaking I can't believe it's in the actual game. It feels like a petty DM getting pissed that the players snuck up on his monsters, so he reaches down into the world and moves them around just to screw over the party.
The solution to the problem of players catching the aliens out of cover is to put the fucking aliens into cover at the beginning of the map. Again, this seems so obvious, I think the reaction move is a hack they put in the game while they were testing the engine, and then left it in because it was easier than bothering to develop good AI. When I played the first game I was so baffled by this mechanic I assumed it was a one-time occurrence scripted into the tutorial. Once the player is in an open combat situation there's no reason the aliens should ever be standing out of cover with their thumbs' up their butts. If the player manages to catch the aliens out of cover by approaching their flank, C'est la vie. He has played well and earned his victory. At the very least, the reaction move is way too powerful and should be nerfed to 2-3 squares of movement max.
But it has pretty much all the same problems as the original:
One Base Limit - This makes even less sense this time around. I can't think of a worse setup for an underground resistance organization than a single easily-visible aircraft with all the senior command and support staff on board. How is the Avenger not bombarded with 10,000 cruise missiles the moment it takes off? Did I miss the explanation that it's a 'stealth ship?' I get that the devs wanted to keep things simple and not have to deal with multiple bases, but it's really not that hard if the original XCOM could do it 20 years ago. Also, why the hell are you limited to only one Skyranger? This makes even less sense. "Commander, two missions have appeared but we can only respond to one of them!" Well whose fucking fault is that, jackass? I looked around for the 'Buy a second transport' button but there isn't one, so I'm forced to play like an idiot. Hey geniuses, what are you going to do if the Skyranger gets shot down? Why can't Shadowy Council Guy see the obvious tactical utility of having two response teams? Who's in charge of this mission, Hillary Clinton?!
Wacky Resource Model - In a game that seems to prioritize simplification, this whole resource model is pretty convoluted. It's just as poorly explained as the importance of Satellite Relays in the first game, and the dependencies of radio rooms and ground coverage makes as much sense as a facebook game. Then you have to shuffle workers around efficiently in this tiny 3x4 space without really knowing what you are doing or what's going to happen as the game goes on. How is this simpler than plopping down a bunch of radar dishes? The devs say they want to force the player to make hard choices but the reality is these decisions actually deny choice. With so few options there's pretty much only one *right* way to play the game.
Cover isn't actually cover - The cover system in the game is laughably arbitrary and nonsensical; and sadly it's spreading, although I think Wasteland 2 used it better. Previous games in this genre would trace projectiles through the game world and check for collisions; if there was a wall between your soldier and an enemy, then your shot would hit the wall and not the enemy. Simple and intuitive. But in XCOM the intervening objects don't seem to matter. Only the designated Cover Object next to a soldier or mob is considered in the 'cover' calculation and everything in between is discarded. This leads to absurd situations where an enemy in plain view can't be hit because he's standing behind a lamp post, while an enemy behind a huge metal container is considered a fair target because he's only standing next to a small box. Every time I see bullets magically pass through walls or even the ground I cringe. This is like a bug that made it through beta and they just left it. How can a game made in the 90's model line of sight more accurately than a game released in 2016?
No manual aiming - I know I sound like a broken record but in the previous games it was a perfectly viable tactic to just hose down an area with bullets and hope for the best. I like that Spray-and-pray abilities are now available for Heavies (making them even more awesome) but this really should be a normal skill for everyone. I should be able to shoot at walls or objects without having a designated target. I also miss being able to choose between careful shot, snap shot, and burst shot but oh well. Grenades destroy cover nicely but your soldiers are all pitiful wimps who only carry one at a time.
The fucking Reaction Move - When the devs talked up the concealment feature they made it sound like the enemy reaction move was going away, but it's back and it's just as bullshit as ever. Stop me if this sounds familiar: You move your last guy into place and trigger an enemy group at the edge of your field of vision. They immediately use their free move to rush straight towards your team, then begin their actual turn by moving to point blank range and annihilate your squad. Lol u suck, lern2play and gitgud n00bz!
Yeah, fuck you Firaxis. I get why they did this. The game would be too easy if you could catch every enemy out of cover and blast them before they get a turn. But the reaction move is the most retarded way to solve this issue I can think of. Enemies getting a free move right in the middle of your turn is so jarring and immersion-breaking I can't believe it's in the actual game. It feels like a petty DM getting pissed that the players snuck up on his monsters, so he reaches down into the world and moves them around just to screw over the party.
The solution to the problem of players catching the aliens out of cover is to put the fucking aliens into cover at the beginning of the map. Again, this seems so obvious, I think the reaction move is a hack they put in the game while they were testing the engine, and then left it in because it was easier than bothering to develop good AI. When I played the first game I was so baffled by this mechanic I assumed it was a one-time occurrence scripted into the tutorial. Once the player is in an open combat situation there's no reason the aliens should ever be standing out of cover with their thumbs' up their butts. If the player manages to catch the aliens out of cover by approaching their flank, C'est la vie. He has played well and earned his victory. At the very least, the reaction move is way too powerful and should be nerfed to 2-3 squares of movement max.
Last edited:
MadMaxHellfire
Arcane
the original x-com could, but today's gamers can't.
Ivan
Arcane
This shouldn't happen if you're taking out one pod. In fact, it's dumb how even after taking out one pod with all the noise you make, the enemies don't come at you.
Zeriel
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,972
Oh wait, that's a bug? I thought it was a feature and I was just supposed to suck it up for not being telepathic.
Zeriel
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,972
This is a big and established company, bugs like this for 50$+ are nono, it screams of bad project management. Basically all last 3 games from Firaxis were garbage when it come to launch performance, bugs and so on, much like Creative Assembly, but on mild level.
What Jasede wants to talks about, its about hard to reproduce bugs, that happens 1% or about bugs that happen only complex situations(many steps to reproduce, very low chance to occur), but what we have, are clear bugs, that they were left in. They were out of time, so they just launch it. Basically "Fuck it, they are so many jasedes out there, they will buy it." You would be surprised how many times this happens in AAA industry, due to incompetent producers.
To be fair, it's not incompetence if it works. If most people will buy an unfinished product, the incompetence would be holding a product back that will sell just out of principle. I don't agree with this reasoning, but from a profit standpoint it's ironclad.
baturinsky
Arcane
So, your immersion requires enemies to politely stand still while other side moves? aAnd not jump to cover as soon as they see enemies?
XCOM turn-based model is one of the best approximation of real-time combat. It sees soldier's position as a superposition of his position throw a length of time, as he approaches the cover, look from out of it, shoot from out of it and actually hide behind it. Hit percentage reflects "average" chance to hit during the time he does all of this.
Just finished the game. Ending was a bit... lackluster I have to say. Overall I felt the game was a bit rushed. I actually think I prefer their first game over this, but that could be because I prefer the original concept more than this. Anyway it was an okay experience, a bit short maybe?
Ivan
Arcane
Ivan
Arcane
reluctantly putting that Ironman Commander on hold.
I'm actually thinking of restarting on commander, Im fully kited with plasma and steamrolling everything. Have a compliment of PSI freaks in case someone gets wounded (awesome way to say - now you can level replacements in barracks!)
That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.
Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.
Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.
CthuluIsSpy
Arcane
So I beat the game, but it crashes during the end cinematic.
The last mission is a technical nightmare.
Grenades don't work properly and who ever had the idea of spawning enemies after every turn, causing my computer to just shit itself needs be whacked over the head repeatedly with a programming manual.
Its better than EU's final mission, but fuck me its a buggy piece of shit.
Are there second wave options or post-game completion unlockables?
The last mission is a technical nightmare.
Grenades don't work properly and who ever had the idea of spawning enemies after every turn, causing my computer to just shit itself needs be whacked over the head repeatedly with a programming manual.
Its better than EU's final mission, but fuck me its a buggy piece of shit.
Are there second wave options or post-game completion unlockables?
Zetor
Arcane
No second wave options right now other than mods... and self-imposed challenges I guess. Speaking of which, I'll probably try playing a 4-soldier squad on Commander -- since mimetic skin is no longer a thing, it'll probably be a lot harder than the same challenge was in EW no matter how many mimic beacons I bring.
CthuluIsSpy
Arcane
I won't bother trying to get the damned thing to work then. I'll just wait for a patch.
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 21,332
found this tech tree: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mstum/xcom2/master/techtree/xcom2techtree4.png
It is not great but better than nothing.
Does anyone know how long do different missions stay on map before disappearing?
It is not great but better than nothing.
Does anyone know how long do different missions stay on map before disappearing?
Jrpgfan
Erudite
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2016
- Messages
- 2,113
Any suggestions on how to not get fucked by RNG in this game. Trying to finish it on ironman commander but RNG is fucking me in every single playthrough. Most of the failures I get there's absolutely nothing I could have done differently to result in a better outcome.
- Joined
- May 18, 2015
- Messages
- 5,132
Try to minimize their influence as much as possible. That means use abilities with specific results(grenades,drones,anything like that) whenever you can to make a kill 100% certain. Try to make the enemies have the least chances possible to inflict damage in their turn . And of course avoid to enable too many enemies together, that is always a problem.
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