X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[Polanski]

So finally going for the final mission. I really regret restarting on Commander Ironman, after finding Legend Ironman too hard after the first few missions. Most of the game has been too easy. X-com really loses a lot of its charm, when you are just grinding missions without any real danger.

I am actually looking very much forward to putting the game away. The fun disapperead somewhere in between the difficulty, the horrible (and very inconsistent) performance and that truly fucked-up, randomly-looking-into-and-addressing-the-camera thing, they do in the videos. That is really not how you make good films, and if they had to do it (which they did not), they should at least be consistent in keeping the camera as a pov.

 

[Monocause]

So finally going for the final mission. I really regret restarting on Commander Ironman, after finding Legend Ironman too hard after the first few missions. Most of the game has been too easy. X-com really loses a lot of its charm, when you are just grinding missions without any real danger.

I am actually looking very much forward to putting the game away. The fun disapperead somewhere in between the difficulty, the horrible (and very inconsistent) performance and that truly fucked-up, randomly-looking-into-and-addressing-the-camera thing, they do in the videos. That is really not how you make good films, and if they had to do it (which they did not), they should at least be consistent in keeping the camera as a pov.

I'm guessing you skipped past the tutorial. It's actually somewhat explained there - the first tutorial mission is about Bradford leading a small crew to rescue the commander from the aliens; hence the 1st person POV is explained by you being the "commander" who is an actual person on board the avenger that people address directly.

 

[LizardWizard]

Also, Reaper. No shotgun guy ever killed 6 enemies in one turn.

Mine has, though it's RNG dependant on rolling Serial. Equipped Talon rounds, Spider suit and he completely destroys two pods by himself on the regular.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Also, if you get lucky with the AWC RNG, your shotgun-spec Ranger may end up with Serial. Add a superior autoloader and let the good times roll! Rambo bandana optional.

Oh yeah, if you get serial you can just forget about reaper and go nuts with rapid fire.
I would use the extended clip instead of autoloader though, so I can rapid fire multiple times.
A superior autoloader should give enough for what, 3 rapid fires?

 

[Polanski]

So finally going for the final mission. I really regret restarting on Commander Ironman, after finding Legend Ironman too hard after the first few missions. Most of the game has been too easy. X-com really loses a lot of its charm, when you are just grinding missions without any real danger.

I am actually looking very much forward to putting the game away. The fun disapperead somewhere in between the difficulty, the horrible (and very inconsistent) performance and that truly fucked-up, randomly-looking-into-and-addressing-the-camera thing, they do in the videos. That is really not how you make good films, and if they had to do it (which they did not), they should at least be consistent in keeping the camera as a pov.

I'm guessing you skipped past the tutorial. It's actually somewhat explained there - the first tutorial mission is about Bradford leading a small crew to rescue the commander from the aliens; hence the 1st person POV is explained by you being the "commander" who is an actual person on board the avenger that people address directly.

I fully understand why they do it. It is just not a good choice and it is horribly executed.

 

[Zeriel]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

 

[typical user]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

 

[Zeriel]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

 

[Zombra]

But if the game systems themselves provide those hits, by definition it cannot be cheating.

It doesn't cheat - it just lies to the player about what the rules are.

 

[typical user]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Is it that bad? I saw posts about +10%/-10% to hit but +100%? On Commander? Every stages of the game? Might as well called it MLG Mode.

 

[Zeriel]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Is it that bad? I saw posts about +10%/-10% to hit but +100%? On Commander? Every stages of the game? Might as well called it MLG Mode.

It applies a blanket buff on some difficulties, but the meat of it is that once you miss a certain number of shots the next one is guaranteed to hit. I don't think I need to say how silly this sort of thing is if you are aware of it.

"Oh boy I missed 4 shots, now I can hit that guy who I should have a 0% chance to hit!"

It obviates most tactical combat systems in the game.

 

[Zeriel]

But if the game systems themselves provide those hits, by definition it cannot be cheating.

It doesn't cheat - it just lies to the player about what the rules are.

If this were communicated to the player I would agree, but it's a few lines in the .ini files that are never mentioned in anyway and don't apply to Legend. The same thing was in EU, but it didn't apply to Classic either, looks like they lost faith in players since then.

 

[Zetor]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Is it that bad? I saw posts about +10%/-10% to hit but +100%? On Commander? Every stages of the game? Might as well called it MLG Mode.

It applies a blanket buff on some difficulties, but the meat of it is that once you miss a certain number of shots the next one is guaranteed to hit. I don't think I need to say how silly this sort of thing is if you are aware of it.

"Oh boy I missed 4 shots, now I can hit that guy who I should have a 0% chance to hit!"

It obviates most tactical combat systems in the game.

Actually the bonus is only 15%, and it's only applied to a shot that you already had at least a 50% chance of hitting. Also, I'm pretty sure the bonuses only kick in once you have less than 4 soldiers in a mission. Or is there another aim assist system other than what Zdisiu posted / what is configurable through the INI?

It's a stupid system, in either case. If they actually thought adding this was necessary during playtesting, that tells a sad story about their testers. If they thought adding it was necessary during design, that tells an even sadder story about their... well... everything. I think my favorite rationalizations from players were along the lines of (paraphrased)

It makes sense, if you think of it as concentrated fire... if I'm missing an alien 4 times in in one round, he'll have a harder time avoiding the 5th shot.

XCOM2 is clearly balanced with aim assist in mind. It's not really "the computer is cheating in your favor." For immersion reasons, you can think of it as "soldiers are estimating their hit chance conservatively."

It's a system they put in place to mitigate one-round wipes and allow the player a chance of recovery. It's necessary to avoid the 'cruel' tendencies of a RNG -- it is not in any way a cheat.

 

[veevoir]

From what I understand the shot streak to get the buff is actually pretty high, like 10 shots.

Buffs for being under 4 soldiers though are bullshit, but probably will get modded out pretty soon.

 

[Zetor]

Buffs for being under 4 soldiers though are bullshit, but probably will get modded out pretty soon.

Those only apply on Rookie and Veteran, anyway (and imo the blanket "invisible" 120%/110% accuracy modifier for those difficulties is worse). Modding them out should be easy, just set the values in the ini to 0.

e: vvv with respect to the simulationist argument, I'd agree if this was X-COM. However, XCOM is basically a super-abstracted boardgame that's as gamist as it gets, so things like "concentrated fire" would need to be handled as an actual ability you could use instead of just getting a silent to-hit bonus.

 

[Harpsichord]

From a simulationist perspective, there isn't anything ridiculous about getting a bonus to hit after consecutive misses against a target, hell if anything a bonus for taking consecutive shots, hit or miss, would make sense.

That said, as a game system, it's completely unnecessary. There again, it also hasn't affected my play experience because I don't make multiple shots that I have no chance of landing.

My two real gripes would be the the mission timer and party based concealment, not because it's too hard, but because I feel like it encourages ludicrous behavior and results in some dumb situations.

For instance, I had sent one guy in to rescue a scientist who was located in a room with an external door. The aliens were completely unaware of him until my other squad members ran around the side of the building and made contact with the aliens. As soon as they see the other fellas rounding the corner, one charges them and the other(always the sectoid, this bit prompted me to save scum) always ran inside and mind controlled him.

It wouldn't be a big deal and I was easily capable of resolving the encounter with no casualties, but in conjunction with the timer it made for a complete mission failure because I lost a turn on the one guy that could reach the VIP. It doesn't feel hard, it feels strict, like I'm playing a puzzle game masquerading as a squad based tactical game.

 

[veevoir]

The problem is there is no simulationist perspective here.
Everything about the game screams "my designer is a board games designer". It is a complicated computer-board game and everything is highly abstracted (like infinite supply of grenades I can equip on only 1 soldier) for gamey reasons.
Same with timers, especially on VIP extractions - time is up, you lose your soldiers. Abstract mechanism to keep the tension high.

Hell, XCOM:EW *was* designed by Ananda Gupta, a motherfucking god of boardgames as of late - he designed Twilight Struggle that occupies #1 spot at BGG (rightly so).
Shame he didn't get to take part in XCOM2, but still - Solomon seems to be a board geek as well.


TL;DR: This is not Gollop's XCOM, it is a board game with the same theme. This is the key to enjoying this.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Well, finally made some progress on commander ironman.

Had to adopt a more agressive playstyle. Playing too safe like I did on veteran was obviously not working for me.

So far I lost only 1 soldier in around 10 missions(only because I misclicked).

 

[bonescraper]

Same with timers, especially on VIP extractions - time is up, you lose your soldiers. Abstract mechanism to keep the tension high.

Not abstract at all, and it's all explained in game if you'd only listen.

 

[Galdred]

From a simulationist perspective, there isn't anything ridiculous about getting a bonus to hit after consecutive misses against a target, hell if anything a bonus for taking consecutive shots, hit or miss, would make sense.

That said, as a game system, it's completely unnecessary. There again, it also hasn't affected my play experience because I don't make multiple shots that I have no chance of landing.

My two real gripes would be the the mission timer and party based concealment, not because it's too hard, but because I feel like it encourages ludicrous behavior and results in some dumb situations.

For instance, I had sent one guy in to rescue a scientist who was located in a room with an external door. The aliens were completely unaware of him until my other squad members ran around the side of the building and made contact with the aliens. As soon as they see the other fellas rounding the corner, one charges them and the other(always the sectoid, this bit prompted me to save scum) always ran inside and mind controlled him.

It wouldn't be a big deal and I was easily capable of resolving the encounter with no casualties, but in conjunction with the timer it made for a complete mission failure because I lost a turn on the one guy that could reach the VIP. It doesn't feel hard, it feels strict, like I'm playing a puzzle game masquerading as a squad based tactical game.

Actually, if the aliens played to win like board game opponents, most missions would be infeasible. They would just rush the civilians/VIP/terminal/whatever, focus fire it, and boom, mission failed without your being able to do anything about it.
The problem is that the pod activation system messes all up :
If you activate a pod near the target, it will prioritize only shooting once at the target mission, but if you happen to have no one in sight of one guy in the pod, he will shoot at the target mission regardless of what his friends have been doing, so you can end with a full pod focus firing on the target because you are too hard to hit (which is what they should do in the first place, but then, the mission design goes against it).
It is still not as bad as in Descent : Journeys in the Dark 2 ( a board game famous for its enforced racing) : at least, you don't have to sprint ignoring all enemies to win some missions.

 

[veevoir]

We do not speak of Descent 2, rape of a pretty decent game that was Descent 1.

 

[ArchAngel]

I had the craziest fight yesterday.
I was on "hack a terminal on a train to get data" mission, 8 turns to do it. Train was fairly close and I spotted two groups of enemies on one side of a train. So I decided to avoid them and went around the train and decided to try to hack it and get my sniper on high house on that side before fighting anyone. There I found guards for the device and a Gatekeeper (my first run into one) and two Sectoids. I set up my guys so to just fight the Gatekeeper and Sectoids, only my stealth Ranger hangs by the train to watch for other packs.

I engage the Sectoids and Gatekeeper but cannot kill it in same turn so I Stasis it. And on alien turn two packs that before patrolled happily on the other side of train run into the train cart and activate (I am pretty sure this is some bullshit design where other enemy packs stop their usual patrol and beeline for your troops because I uncovered the device I need to hack). So on my turn I got about half health Gatekeeper, 2 Andromedons, 1 Muton and Elite Advent Troopers to fight vs.. and only 3 turns left to hack the device (and I know in cart with device there are more troops which is just next train cart).

So I am now thinking "Frack".
Luckily I had a Colonel Sniper with Serial and Plasma gun (only plasma weapon upgrade in this mission, I had a feeling I should spend my limited money for the Sniper upgrade first) and with advanced repeater weapon upgrade (3 free reloads per combat) and with EMP rounds.
I got my two grenadiers to AoE as many enemies as I could removing their cover and armor and Serial Sniper killed the Gatekeeper, Muton, 1 Elite Trooper, both Andromedons. Then for second Andromedon form I got help from my Ranger and Specialist and killed them both as well. After this fight I am pretty sure Serial Sniper with Advanced Repeater upgrade is best class in the game. It takes some setting up and waiting until you get Colonel and right upgrades but the payoff is awesome

 

[ArchAngel]

Also I learned from 1st hand experience that aliens don't get hit chance bonuses for being close to their target. I had a Dominated Andromedon in one mission and he stood next to his target (elite trooper) and only had 70% hit chance.

 

[ArchAngel]

Same with timers, especially on VIP extractions - time is up, you lose your soldiers. Abstract mechanism to keep the tension high.

Not abstract at all, and it's all explained in game if you'd only listen.

No it is not, most timers are pure bullshit and their explanations make zero sense. In all these missions you come in Stealthed but aliens decide to destroy the data in 8 turns anyways just at that moment? Why? Because Fuck you, that is why! That explanation is used for at least half missions with timers.

 

[veevoir]

Actually with VIP missions he is right, the fluff is that Skyranger will get blown out of the sky if you don't hurry.