X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[ArchAngel]

I did say about 50% of mission timers are bullshit, not all of them.
But even that one is bullshit. If enemy fighters know you are there why do you get concealment for the mission?
Enemy troops should also know you are there.

 

[Jasede]

^
complaining about a game you didn't pay for

 

[ArchAngel]

^
complaining about a game you didn't pay for

I will eventually when a Goty versions is on Steam sale.

 

[bonescraper]

Same with timers, especially on VIP extractions - time is up, you lose your soldiers. Abstract mechanism to keep the tension high.

Not abstract at all, and it's all explained in game if you'd only listen.

No it is not, most timers are pure bullshit and their explanations make zero sense. In all these missions you come in Stealthed but aliens decide to destroy the data in 8 turns anyways just at that moment? Why? Because Fuck you, that is why! That explanation is used for at least half missions with timers.

I did say about 50% of mission timers are bullshit, not all of them.
But even that one is bullshit. If enemy fighters know you are there why do you get concealment for the mission?
Enemy troops should also know you are there.

Fighters go after the fucking dropship, is that so fucking hard to understand? Do you know how radars work?

 

[vean]

From reading this thread I get the impression that XCOM 2 is nothing more than the most elaborate game of rock paper scissors ever invented.

 

[ArchAngel]

Same with timers, especially on VIP extractions - time is up, you lose your soldiers. Abstract mechanism to keep the tension high.

Not abstract at all, and it's all explained in game if you'd only listen.

No it is not, most timers are pure bullshit and their explanations make zero sense. In all these missions you come in Stealthed but aliens decide to destroy the data in 8 turns anyways just at that moment? Why? Because Fuck you, that is why! That explanation is used for at least half missions with timers.

I did say about 50% of mission timers are bullshit, not all of them.
But even that one is bullshit. If enemy fighters know you are there why do you get concealment for the mission?
Enemy troops should also know you are there.

Fighters go after the fucking dropship, is that so fucking hard to understand? Do you know how radars work?

Does not answer any of my point. We understood fighters attack your dropship, does not explain mission where it is not about fighters or why aliens don't have communication devices that say to troops on ground that Xcom transport has been spotted.

 

[bonescraper]

Does not answer any of my point. We understood fighters attack your dropship, does not explain mission where it is not about fighters or why aliens don't have communication devices that say to troops on ground that Xcom transport has been spotted.

OMG, you really have to be taken through this step by step, don't you?

No, fighters don't attack your dropship. They're scrambled to intercept it. They only see your Avenger, cause there are no radars that detect living creatures. That's why your dropship has a limited time window to operate, regardless of your guys being detected or not. When the time is up, your dropship must escape or it will be intercepted and shot down. This way you'd lose not only your guys, but the only dropship in your possession. It makes perfect sense.

If you have more inane questions, just watch this thing

(allegedly based on a true story). It even has stealth Blackhawks.

 

[ArchAngel]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Most of my mission on Commander/Ironman I have 100% accuracy on Mission Complete screen. I don't think this "cheat" does anything for me if it only activates after you miss a few times

 

[ArchAngel]

Does not answer any of my point. We understood fighters attack your dropship, does not explain mission where it is not about fighters or why aliens don't have communication devices that say to troops on ground that Xcom transport has been spotted.

OMG, you really have to be taken through this step by step, don't you?

No, fighters don't attack your dropship. They're scrambled to intercept it. They only see your Avenger, cause there are no radars that detect living creatures. That's why your dropship has a limited time window to operate, regardless of your guys being detected or not. When the time is up, your dropship must escape or it will be intercepted and shot down. This way you'd lose not only your guys, but the only dropship in your possession. It makes perfect sense.

OK lets do this like you are a 5 year old.
1. Enemy detects your transport over their controlled area.
2. Enemy scrambles fighters to intercept
3. Enemy contacts troops on ground and tells them Xcom is around and to be careful and look for them
4. Xcom still gets to start in Concealment?
5. ....

I am not claiming turn timer is bad in this situation but that you should not start in Concealment.

 

[Zeriel]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Most of my mission on Commander/Ironman I have 100% accuracy on Mission Complete screen. I don't think this "cheat" does anything for me if it only activates after you miss a few times

Speaking of which, I just started playing again after my first completion on L+I. I have to say, it feels like there's a demon inside my CPU making the RNG this time around.

Hunker down in full cover? Hit by every shot for full damage.

Get shot at in the open? Every shot misses.

Oh boy, we've got the enemy dead to rights! Let's take 4 85% shots in a row! Oh. They all missed.

I know RNG is RNG, but man, sometimes the salt is unreal.

 

[Harpsichord]

Same with timers, especially on VIP extractions - time is up, you lose your soldiers. Abstract mechanism to keep the tension high.

Not abstract at all, and it's all explained in game if you'd only listen.

There's an explanation with regard to narrative, there's nothing 'abstract' about the narrative. The interceptors will show up and prevent you from extracting if you don't do the mission fast, and that's believable enough. Hell, me and my best friend are always poking fun at the original XCOM for that omission, and the overall ludicrous premise of fending off an alien invasion using ground forces to begin with.

AFAIK, nobody is arguing about the narrative aspect not making sense.(EDIT: Nevermind, I wrote this before people had jumped in and done so, and imo missing the point)

I think what veevoir is referring to as 'abstract' in this case is the actual mechanics themselves, particularly when compared to the oldshit XCOM.

The most immediate example I can think of would be LOS. XCOM2 isn't even trying to simulate LOS with any sort of depth, and instead abstracts LOS across the entire party, making it an all or nothing thing. The aliens aren't making decisions on what they can immediately see, they are making decisions based on where all of your units sit on a board.

Likewise, the interceptor narrative is abstract as a game mechanic because it's hand waved(again, at a mechanical level) and it's not like you can remove the timer by researching a stealth dropship. The amount of time that you have available to complete the mission is(afaik at least) intrinsically linked to the mission type. It's not a value that is derived from any sort of organic system, it's a board game rule.

I'm not even saying it's bad, and I suspect I'll probably have a lot of fun with it. There's just a pretty big shift in the design ethos when compared to the older games(even the 2012 version, to which I so far find XCOM2 superior).

 

[veevoir]

Harpsichord You fucking mind reading sectoid!

Yes, that's the gist of what I was talking about, hard to write anything longer than shitposts at work.

 

[Jimmious]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Most of my mission on Commander/Ironman I have 100% accuracy on Mission Complete screen. I don't think this "cheat" does anything for me if it only activates after you miss a few times

I'm pretty sure that accuracy stat is bugged. I always get 100%...and even though I'd like it to be so, its not true.

 

[bonescraper]

OK lets do this like you are a 5 year old.
1. Enemy detects your transport over their controlled area.
2. Enemy scrambles fighters to intercept
3. Enemy contacts troops on ground and tells them Xcom is around and to be careful and look for them
4. Xcom still gets to start in Concealment?
5. ....

I am not claiming turn timer is bad in this situation but that you should not start in Concealment.

there are no radars that detect living creatures.

No, i guess that's not enough for you. Ok then.

Your average modern military air to ground radar has a range of ~200 km. So, as its operator, you pick up an unindentified flying object (can be enemy aircraft, can be some dumbfuck civillian etc.). You go through your procedures, the pilot gets contacted though the radio. He does not respond, you scramble interceptors. By the time they're in visual range, you still have no idea what exactly you're dealing with. It takes a few minutes before your fighters can take off. Then, crossing a 200 km distance in a jet flying at 1 Mach (1225 km/h) would take approximately 30 minutes. That's the time window you have before the enemy even knows there's actually 1) an enemy aircraft tresspassing their airspace 2) it's a dropship capable of inserting troops behind enemy lines.

That's the simulationist version, are you satisfied now?

 

[ArchAngel]

OK lets do this like you are a 5 year old.
1. Enemy detects your transport over their controlled area.
2. Enemy scrambles fighters to intercept
3. Enemy contacts troops on ground and tells them Xcom is around and to be careful and look for them
4. Xcom still gets to start in Concealment?
5. ....

I am not claiming turn timer is bad in this situation but that you should not start in Concealment.

there are no radars that detect living creatures.

No, i guess that's not enough for you. Ok then.

Your average modern military air to ground radar has a range of ~200 km. So, as its operator, you pick up an unindentified flying object (can be enemy aircraft, can be some dumbfuck civillian etc.). You go through your procedures, the pilot gets contacted though the radio. He does not respond, you scramble interceptors. By the time they're in visual range, you still have no idea what exactly you're dealing with. It takes a few minutes before your fighters can take off. Then, crossing a 200 km distance in a jet flying at 1 Mach (1225 km/h) would take approximately 30 minutes. That's the time window you have before the enemy even knows there's actually 1) an enemy aircraft tresspassing their airspace 2) it's a dropship capable of inserting troops behind enemy lines.

That's the simulationist version, are you satisfied now?

You do understand that these guys are using Alien tech? This text of your means shit, zero, nothing.
And we even know aliens have direct communication with others through psionic neural implants. It would take them 1 second to make sure all troops on ground know you are there.
Actually that same system is also ignored in the game when packs happily let you murder other packs 1 screen away.

 

[veevoir]

Then your attempts at explanations are also shit.
Because alien space magic.

And apparently that space magic doesnt help detect troops insertion because the people who made the game say so. Here ,problem solved!

 

[ArchAngel]

That's kinda the point :D I know AI changes behaviour and that is important for me, the new challenge.
Also the extra HP at the beginning makes a big difference between get-out-of-jail grenades and not.

Im just thinking of pushing this Normal a bit further to know the research tree, which is kinda important knowledge for higher diff levels.

The game is still cheating in your favor on Commander. Legend is the only difficulty where it doesn't do that.

Depends on how you look at it. Enemies start with Magnetic weapons and never panic on their own.

I do not know how to look at the game giving you automatic hits that bypass the system the game is built around other than "cheating".

Most of my mission on Commander/Ironman I have 100% accuracy on Mission Complete screen. I don't think this "cheat" does anything for me if it only activates after you miss a few times

I'm pretty sure that accuracy stat is bugged. I always get 100%...and even though I'd like it to be so, its not true.

I really do not miss with my group :D
I rarely take shots that are below 90% hit chance and only when I don't really care if I hit but want my Heavy to get a kill (I avoid killing with grenades so I don't lose loot).

 

[bonescraper]

You do understand that these guys are using Alien tech? This text of your means shit, zero, nothing.
And we even know aliens have direct communication with others through psionic neural implants. It would take them 1 second to make sure all troops on ground know you are there.

The bottom line, you retatrd, is, NOBODY KNOWS THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND. Jebus H Fuck.

 

[ArchAngel]

You do understand that these guys are using Alien tech? This text of your means shit, zero, nothing.
And we even know aliens have direct communication with others through psionic neural implants. It would take them 1 second to make sure all troops on ground know you are there.

The bottom line, you retatrd, is, NOBODY KNOWS THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND. Jebus H Fuck.

Retard is person you look at every morning in the mirror. Yea, game has more illogical stuff than these timers, but it does not make timers (for some missions) or being able to start in concealment in some missions but not in others (terror missions also don't really explain why you cannot use concealment) make any more sense

 

[bonescraper]

 

[Jasede]

Rare is the day when even shrill attention whore Jas ignores someone.

 

[Mr. Pink]

this entire page


also, starting a new campaign on commander, how long can you hold off on story research (like the key thing)? will the game fuck me over if I take too long?

 

[Zeriel]

this entire page


also, starting a new campaign on commander, how long can you hold off on story research (like the key thing)? will the game fuck me over if I take too long?

Nah, just keep letting the doom counter get to the final timer and a few days left before taking out bases. You can go pretty long that way, much longer than you would need to do all researches. Some important stuff is gated behind plot researches though (like early on Proving Grounds).

On Legend everything takes about twice as long, fyi, so delaying everything on Commander and below is still less "slow" than a normal game of Legend.

 

[veevoir]

I can't fathom why just possibly...

Anyways

this entire page


also, starting a new campaign on commander, how long can you hold off on story research (like the key thing)? will the game fuck me over if I take too long?

Actually holding off research other than resistance radio (which is mandatory to have economy/striking range) and officer autopsy is favourable same as in XCOM1 - new types of enemies tend to pop up at certain story points

 

[ArchAngel]

So you don't have any arguments and accept you are talking shit. OK, I am glad we settled this.

Rare is the day when even shrill attention whore Jas ignores someone.

Like anyone cares what Undertail fag like you has to say..