Yet Another Half-Life 2 Discussion

[Karwelas]

All of your games are bad, everything and everyone suck, go grab a bag of dicks and get the fuck out. I also suck. Yes, I suck even more then you, fuck you.

Spoiler

95% of those threads can be summed by this post.

 

[Cadmus]

Beating a dead horse but it really is shocking just how mindblowingly shit the guns feel in HL2. The really baffling part is that, when it came out, I remember being impressed with most aspects of the game, gunplay included, and somehow the passage of time has just revealed all the glaring flaws.

We could argue about the level design, the crap vehicle segments, the lack of enemy variety, the lengthy non-cutscenes etc all day but the guns near-universally feeling like water pistols full of piss is the real killing blow to the game.

EDIT: Just went through the thread and the occasional hate for the original Half-Life is strange. I can understand arguing that it's shockingly overrated (it definitely is) and that it wasn't even particularly good but it has some good ideas and interestingly designed maps, which is more than HL2 can claim. It's not really fair to call it the harbinger of despair for the FPS genre either, even if it started the cinematics-over-gameplay thing. The original Call of Duty is surely far more responsible for pushing that idea, playing it recently it's pretty staggering how staged and boring the whole game is - enemies endlessly respawning until you walk past triggers, frequent turret/vehicle sections where you're fused in place and can't do anything other than shoot the targets that keep lining up, a squad of fucking stupid morons who keep getting in the way and dying, the entire game essentially being a series of "cool" hyper-scripted events strung together with crap arena shooting segments, etc. Compared to that and what came after, Half-Life is firmly in the classic age of FPS games, albeit at the very end. It never fixes you in place on a turret, never does lame-ass Saving Private Ryan shellshock shit, never takes control away from you, never forces you to sit through cutscenes with the exception of the terrible tram intro and a couple of very rare dialogue-heavy scenes, and even then they're under a minute long.

I remember playing CoD1 and it was fucking horrible even at that time. Horrible guns, the difficulty was created by shaking the player's screen upon getting hit which might just be the stupidest thing in all FPSs, the scripted scenes were insanely overdone, the infinite soldiers meant nothing was worth doing except for running to the nearest checkpoint. I don't remember, was Medal of Honor just as bad? I remember liking MoH, I think it was my first cinematic gay-ass FPS so it was a cool thing to see. Of course now it just pisses me off.

This is what I thought, having, until recently, last played Doom in the 90s. However, in the past few months I went on an FPS binge which included Doom (admittedly with ZDoom, but with no free-look and cursor - no mechanical changes at all, just a higher resolution) and my God: Doom is still sublime. The level design, which includes item and weapon placements, the bestiary, and the effectiveness of the guns are all in perfect harmony. It's so brilliantly designed that "I'll just play this for a few minutes out of nostalgia" turned into completing multiple episodes in one sitting, without my even being aware of it.

Exactly the same happened to me and while the Doom hmm universe and the presentation in general feels boring to me, that game is fucking fast and smooth. I finished a few levels even though I only wanted to try if the game runs well.

Back to the guns in HL2 - I suppose they had the idea that you would be using the gravity gun a lot more and to enforce it they gave you shit ammo for the only fun gun - the magnum.
The pulse rifle or whatever was boring as shit, complete with a boring design and no visible recoil. It looks like it should wreak a total havoc, destroy everything but the damage is an airsoft-tier peashooter. The crossbow was fucking unwieldy and the floaty movement made it annoying to use.

I liked the flying drones with the metallic hit effects for a while but then they got annoying too.

I also must say I never really liked HL1 too much, everything took too long to happen and I fucking hate being stuck in some endless underground dungeon/facility for a whole game. I quit in Xen and never finished it because I was so bored at that point and then they wanted me to fucking jump around like a retard instead of allowing me to finally enjoy the shooting without some annoying gimmicks.

I enjoyed HL2 back when it was new, mostly because my teenage self was impressed by the graphics and physics - and, to be honest, those are still pretty good and I actually really like the look of the Source engine in general - and because I was still comparatively new to FPS, so the genre itself still fascinated me.

But when I play it now - meh. It's just not that great, especially compared to contemporary or earlier games like Return to Castle Wolfenstein or the Jedi Knight series, which had such insanely better level design it's ridiculous. HL2 focuses too much on physics puzzles, vehicle sections, and fighting together with teammates like it's Call of Duty, and neglects the parts of an FPS that are actually important for an FPS to be fun: gunplay and level design. Most of the game's levels are decidedly unimpressive. They have little verticality, and are mostly linear - the open segments are usually filled with goddamn fucking vehicle sections, and vehicle sections suck in any FPS ever, because they're basically just a gimmick.

HL2 is a game of gimmicks. Gunplay and gun variety are shit, compare that with RtCW that has versatile standard WW2 weapons like pistol, SMG, long-range rifle, silenced SMG, the FG42 which serves as an assault rifle, oh wait I didn't even mention the Venom minigun and that electric gun yet and it's already a more diverse weapon set than what HL2 has to offer.

All in all, HL2 is like one of those mediocre early 00's shooters of which there were many. Solid entertainment for a few hours, but too many meh parts to make a replay worthwile. I'd rather replay RtCW for the seventh time, or Unreal, or the Jedi Knight series, because those are all better games. HL2 is the better tech demo though, that's the one thing it does right.

I also like the look of the Source Engine but it seems only Valve can do a good-enough job with it. Everything else on it looks like jagged janky piece of shit shovelware, including VtMB. I just watched some video of HL2, probably that nerd teen's and the facial expressions are surely expressive and impressive except they are fucking annoying like something Disney would make. Everyone's smarky and ironic all the time and does that eyebrow thing.

 

[Parsifarka]

Can confirm that HL2 is better than doom 3 and far cry

You can't confirm what is false. Doom 3 is shitty, Far Cry is a masochistic experience, but HL2 is a crime.

I also like the look of the Source Engine but it seems only Valve can do a good-enough job with it. Everything else on it looks like jagged janky piece of shit shovelware, including VtMB.

Dark Messiah looked fine.

I don't remember, was Medal of Honor just as bad?

Yes. In fact, CoD is a much more enjoyable game. Only the Spearhead mission pack added some flavour to MoH, a really shitty shooter. It's like a modded Quake 2 but lamer.

 

[Lemming42]

I remember playing CoD1 and it was fucking horrible even at that time. Horrible guns, the difficulty was created by shaking the player's screen upon getting hit which might just be the stupidest thing in all FPSs, the scripted scenes were insanely overdone, the infinite soldiers meant nothing was worth doing except for running to the nearest checkpoint. I don't remember, was Medal of Honor just as bad? I remember liking MoH, I think it was my first cinematic gay-ass FPS so it was a cool thing to see. Of course now it just pisses me off.

MoH Allied Assault is also victim to aging badly, but it's leagues ahead of CoD as a game. The flashy cinematic bullshit is kept to a minimum and there's only one or two frustrating turret segments which CoD had every other level. It's mainly just running around corridors dressed up to look like they're not corridors and shooting a bunch of really dumb enemies, which isn't really bad so much as just kind of dull. The Omaha beach mission will always be the coolest thing ever, though, no matter what the rest of the game is like.

The sniper town was pretty cool too even if it was all built around the frustrating gimmick of being attacked by enemies who you can't see.

 

[Gentle Player]

The crossbow i n Halfe Life 2 was a lethal one shot. But the issue with that game is that they chucked waves upon waves of Combine soldiers at the player. IN half Life one, the combat was with a squad of HECU soldiers, and there were only a few of these incidents in the game, Fighting the bastard Black Ops, on hard mode, one had to use snarks and those bloody wall laser things.

 

[Metro]

Can confirm that HL2 is better than doom 3 and far cry

You can't confirm what is false. Doom 3 is shitty, Far Cry is a masochistic experience, but HL2 is a crime.

A crime? Stop trying so hard, newfag.

 

[the_shadow]

Half Life 2 was the very definition of popamole. Enemies popped up, and you popped them down with generic pea shooters while regenerating your health in-between. The only thing missing from the mix was the regenerating health. HL2 makes Doom 3 feel like a masterpiece.

 

[Parsifarka]

You can't confirm what is false. Doom 3 is shitty, Far Cry is a masochistic experience, but HL2 is a crime.

A crime? Stop trying so hard, newfag.

MoH Allied Assault is also victim to aging badly, but it's leagues ahead of CoD as a game. The flashy cinematic bullshit is kept to a minimum and there's only one or two frustrating turret segments which CoD had every other level. It's mainly just running around corridors dressed up to look like they're not corridors and shooting a bunch of really dumb enemies, which isn't really bad so much as just kind of dull. The Omaha beach mission will always be the coolest thing ever, though, no matter what the rest of the game is like.

The sniper town was pretty cool too even if it was all built around the frustrating gimmick of being attacked by enemies who you can't see.

The Omaha beach level was fucking broken, the soviet assault in CoD worked much better. The sniper town level was a pain; those were two of the levels I most hate of the game, 0 fun and tons of broken scripts and random deaths.
When I played RtCW I thought it was rather mediocre, but after playing MoH I reckon it much better.

 

[Metro]

You can't confirm what is false. Doom 3 is shitty, Far Cry is a masochistic experience, but HL2 is a crime.

A crime? Stop trying so hard, newfag.

Another newfag who doesn't get that I barely even play Bethesda games. Keep trying.

 

[racofer]

Despite all of its glaring flaws as a shooter, the setting in HL2 was quite good. City 17 depicted a convincing police state, with humans treated like disposable material for the Combine to use as they saw fit. It would have been a great setting for a more interesting type of game.

Bonus

 

[Lemming42]

The Omaha beach level was fucking broken, the soviet assault in CoD worked much better.

Yeah, it was broken, but it was a very rare successful example of style over substance. I don't know if you played it back in 2002 or so when it came out but that part was incredibly impressive, even if in gameplay terms its just walking across a map and hoping you don't get hit by the inexplicable MGs. CoD was similarly graphically impressive but the Stalingrad boat ride never really matched up to the Omaha beach boat ride for me.

The Stalingrad (not Red Square, which is a bit shit, but the map before it) level in CoD was one of the very few good moments in CoD - being weaponless and therefore getting the chance to do something other than just shoot everything in sight with your nigh-unlimited ammo - but I'm not sure where you felt it succeeded where MoH failed. The levels are essentially the same, a big spectacle and graphics/effects showcase where you have to run rather than shoot for a while.

The sniper town level was a pain; those were two of the levels I most hate of the game, 0 fun and tons of broken scripts and random deaths.

The sniper town is ultimately a pain in the ass but, in any FPS game from Half Life 1 and beyond, I automatically respect any attempt to shake up the formula even if it doesnt really work. Most of the open areas of the map representing an actual real danger to the player, theoretically forcing you to move from cover to cover and be constantly on the lookout for where the fuck the snipers actually are is a good idea to me, even if it doesn't really come off in the finished game. Anything that represents a change from another frigging neverending corridor full of retarded enemies to mow down is a step in the right direction. The music on that level is great too, genuinely unnerving.

Despite all of its glaring flaws as a shooter, the setting in HL2 was quite good. City 17 depicted a convincing police state, with humans treated like disposable material for the Combine to use as they saw fit. It would have been a great setting for a more interesting type of game.

It's probably already been said at some point in the thread and everyone already knows but the alpha/beta versions of the game had a really cool setting, much darker and more alien than the finished product. The child slaves and creepy gasmask-trenchcoat people with acid guns cleaning away corpses would have been really memorable and striking, much more than the losers getting twatted with stun batons that you see in the final game. The wasteland areas also made the Combine theft of Earth's water and air much more apparent.

 

[racofer]

Despite all of its glaring flaws as a shooter, the setting in HL2 was quite good. City 17 depicted a convincing police state, with humans treated like disposable material for the Combine to use as they saw fit. It would have been a great setting for a more interesting type of game.

It's probably already been said at some point in the thread and everyone already knows but the alpha/beta versions of the game had a really cool setting, much darker and more alien than the finished product. The child slaves and creepy gasmask-trenchcoat people with acid guns cleaning away corpses would have been really memorable and striking, much more than the losers getting twatted with stun batons that you see in the final game. The wasteland areas also made the Combine theft of Earth's water and air much more apparent.

Yes. We had a thread about this some years ago as well: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-half-life-2-by-steamtards.34813/#post-846680

Some images have vanished, but I have recovered some of them from the interwebs in an attempt to rebuild Skyway's original post:

Episode 2 with the "ride for two"-stuff from '80s on-the-road comedy movies made me want to kill that bitch. And did those combine guys make my wish come true - but unfortunately and predictably she was saved by teh alien magik. And just to think that Valve wanted to make her a player character in Episodes...

The Gman, the Combine, Vortigaunts, everything, alone making no sense, together they can possibly help explain one another (ranging from comments made by Dr. Breen to Vortigaunts hunting Advisors).

Uh huh - considering that not long before the game's release Valve cut out nearly 1/3 of the game, including very cool looking levels (some of which they now put in Episodes).
http://www.hlfallout.net/forums/index.p ... opic=51266

Fucking Valve:

This bit was meant to be very cool - people were playing a video game where they hunted down criminals - except in reality they were controlling those bees and killing real people without knowing it - it is a reference to some Philip K. Dick book iirc

Incredibly atmospheric cut out part from Ravenholm. Reminds me of that Undying atmosphere

Tower stealing air

Aliens were originally meant to be draining Earth's oceans

some cool concept art:

The Consul office

The factory where slaving kids would've constructed parts for semi-organic combine technology.

There are other stuff laying around, like the Palace map from the Alphas that got recreated in the final game as well:



And screenshots such as this one depicting citizens fleeing a Strider:

 

[MapMan]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but you need to remember one key thing I see people often miss. HL2 was one of the last games that did a technological leap. People were amazed at what HL2 was and what it achieved; it did and excelled at many things never done before. To put it into perspective: fallout 2 was released in 1998 and half life 2 was released 6 years later; fallout 3 and fallout 4 are 7 years apart... I remember days before release, I was so excited about not the game itself but the possibilities it will create. Even before release there were already mod teams preproducing stuff. After I finished HL2 I immidiately fired up VHE and started playing with all the crazy stuff that source engine made doable. HL2 created such a big and lively mod community no other game has surpassed yet, and it's been over a decade now.

Additionally, I think that's one of the reasons we are not going to see HL3. HL2 wouldn't stand on it's own if not for the tech behind and the community (for many reasons other people in this thread stated) and the mediocricity of the episodes clearly showed it - ep2 was on life support of portal and tf2. The same goes for HL3, if we get more of the same but with a little prettier graphics then it's gonna be a huge disappointment. The next Half-Life game needs to be a technological leap and nowadays it's much harder to do it.

 

[Gentle Player]

Half Life 2 vs Blood 2 vs Unreal 2 - which is best and why?

 

[sullynathan]

Can confirm that HL2 is better than doom 3 and far cry

You can't confirm what is false. Doom 3 is shitty, Far Cry is a masochistic experience, but HL2 is a crime.

I beat HL2 a couple months ago and I'm still playing DOOM 3 & Far Cry.

I'd put it at HL2>Far Cry > DOOM 3.
HL2 also had better shooting than all three. Far Cry is good shit though.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but you need to remember one key thing I see people often miss. HL2 was one of the last games that did a technological leap. People were amazed at what HL2 was and what it achieved; it did and excelled at many things never done before. To put it into perspective: fallout 2 was released in 1998 and half life 2 was released 6 years later; fallout 3 and fallout 4 are 7 years apart... I remember days before release, I was so excited about not the game itself but the possibilities it will create. Even before release there were already mod teams preproducing stuff. After I finished HL2 I immidiately fired up VHE and started playing with all the crazy stuff that source engine made doable. HL2 created such a big and lively mod community no other game has surpassed yet, and it's been over a decade now.

Additionally, I think that's one of the reasons we are not going to see HL3. HL2 wouldn't stand on it's own if not for the tech behind and the community (for many reasons other people in this thread stated) and the mediocricity of the episodes clearly showed it - ep2 was on life support of portal and tf2. The same goes for HL3, if we get more of the same but with a little prettier graphics then it's gonna be a huge disappointment. The next Half-Life game needs to be a technological leap and nowadays it's much harder to do it.

That's why VR is the only route.

 

[Cadmus]

Can confirm that HL2 is better than doom 3 and far cry

You can't confirm what is false. Doom 3 is shitty, Far Cry is a masochistic experience, but HL2 is a crime.

I beat HL2 a couple months ago and I'm still playing DOOM 3 & Far Cry.

I'd put it at HL2>Far Cry > DOOM 3.
HL2 also had better shooting than all three. Far Cry is good shit though.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned before but you need to remember one key thing I see people often miss. HL2 was one of the last games that did a technological leap. People were amazed at what HL2 was and what it achieved; it did and excelled at many things never done before. To put it into perspective: fallout 2 was released in 1998 and half life 2 was released 6 years later; fallout 3 and fallout 4 are 7 years apart... I remember days before release, I was so excited about not the game itself but the possibilities it will create. Even before release there were already mod teams preproducing stuff. After I finished HL2 I immidiately fired up VHE and started playing with all the crazy stuff that source engine made doable. HL2 created such a big and lively mod community no other game has surpassed yet, and it's been over a decade now.

Additionally, I think that's one of the reasons we are not going to see HL3. HL2 wouldn't stand on it's own if not for the tech behind and the community (for many reasons other people in this thread stated) and the mediocricity of the episodes clearly showed it - ep2 was on life support of portal and tf2. The same goes for HL3, if we get more of the same but with a little prettier graphics then it's gonna be a huge disappointment. The next Half-Life game needs to be a technological leap and nowadays it's much harder to do it.

That's why VR is the only route.

It's not, there are miles to go in the graphical fidelity, sound design, physics and other technical stuff. Nobody wants to do it because we need more Call of Duty. Not to mention good writing, hahaha.

 

[Average Manatee]

Far Cry had decent shooting and lots of open maps that allowed multiple paths to an objective. Also had some stealth elements. Way better game than HL2.

DOOM 3 I rate about equal with HL2. I give DOOM 3 a lot of credit for having decent guns (minus the shotgun), being held back by Carmack's need for dynamic shadows forcing all the areas to be small, dark, with few enemies.

 

[sullynathan]

Far Cry had decent shooting and lots of open maps that allowed multiple paths to an objective. Also had some stealth elements. Way better game than HL2.

DOOM 3 I rate about equal with HL2. I give DOOM 3 a lot of credit for having decent guns (minus the shotgun), being held back by Carmack's need for dynamic shadows forcing all the areas to be small, dark, with few enemies.

People really used Stealth? The AI in Far Cry was either extremely reactionary or they were really dumb. They could shoot through walls yet you couldn't and they could spot you a mile away, this was weird shit. Other times, you'll stand right next to them and they won't notice.

Truthfully, I find that DOOM 3 takes everything from HL2 and does it worse.

 

[buzz]

Far Cry and Doom 3 are irrelevant in a discussion about best FPS of 2004. There's Escape from Butcher Bay and then there's everything else

 

[Average Manatee]

Far Cry had decent shooting and lots of open maps that allowed multiple paths to an objective. Also had some stealth elements. Way better game than HL2.

DOOM 3 I rate about equal with HL2. I give DOOM 3 a lot of credit for having decent guns (minus the shotgun), being held back by Carmack's need for dynamic shadows forcing all the areas to be small, dark, with few enemies.

People really used Stealth? The AI in Far Cry was either extremely reactionary or they were really dumb. They could shoot through walls yet you couldn't and they could spot you a mile away, this was weird shit. Other times, you'll stand right next to them and they won't notice.

The final patch was rushed and buggy, NPCs seeing you through walls is fixed in the unofficial patch.

 

[sullynathan]

Far Cry had decent shooting and lots of open maps that allowed multiple paths to an objective. Also had some stealth elements. Way better game than HL2.

DOOM 3 I rate about equal with HL2. I give DOOM 3 a lot of credit for having decent guns (minus the shotgun), being held back by Carmack's need for dynamic shadows forcing all the areas to be small, dark, with few enemies.

People really used Stealth? The AI in Far Cry was either extremely reactionary or they were really dumb. They could shoot through walls yet you couldn't and they could spot you a mile away, this was weird shit. Other times, you'll stand right next to them and they won't notice.

The final patch was rushed and buggy, NPCs seeing you through walls is fixed in the unofficial patch.

 

[octavius]

Half Life 2 vs Blood 2 vs Unreal 2 - which is best and why?

Never played Blood 2, but I actually enjoyed and finished Unreal 2.
It funny how much anticipation affects the enjoyment. Well, at least it does for me.
I had very high hopes for HL2, but Unreal 2 I picked from a bargain bin thinking "how bad can it really be?".

 

[DosBuster]

I managed to track down the unfinished half life 2 and the wc mappack, it's interesting to see the changes that the game went through.