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Yet Another Morrowind Thread

Don Peste

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Sep 15, 2008
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I just finished updating my Morrowind++ guide.

I know the Codex will freak out at the 160 or so mods included

Now with "just" 130 mods. :cool:
70 now. Why the culling? I prefer it this way, but I wonder why you started the guide with hundreds of mods, and now you keep reducing it. Even after saying it was finished.

Also, why did you delete the whole changelog?
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
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70 now. Why the culling? I prefer it this way, but I wonder why you started the guide with hundreds of mods, and now you keep reducing it. Even after saying it was finished.

Also, why did you delete the whole changelog?

I've started a "separate" guide which is a much more extensive version, which also includes gameplay and balance mods, as well as many other additions to the other sections: Morrowind# :P (until I can think of a good name)
I deleted the changelog for two reasons, really:
  • First, because I wanted a clean slate.
  • Second, because it was full of "mod added" and later "mod removed" and so on. And it was a mess for people to follow through it. With the recent changes made, it's best for people to simply start a new game if so they wish (the mods removed were not removed because they were buggy, but because they were deemed "not essential" to that guide).
 

prengle

Savant
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
340
I just finished updating my Morrowind++ guide.

I know the Codex will freak out at the 160 or so mods included

Now with "just" 130 mods. :cool:
70 now. Why the culling? I prefer it this way, but I wonder why you started the guide with hundreds of mods, and now you keep reducing it. Even after saying it was finished.

Also, why did you delete the whole changelog?
most hardcore modders like to dangerously flirt with the concept of pretending to be "minimalist" and installing five mods max before relapsing and spending six months smushing together 500 mods into one install. there is no in-between
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,359
most hardcore modders like to dangerously flirt with the concept of pretending to be "minimalist" and installing five mods max before relapsing and spending six months smushing together 500 mods into one install. there is no in-between

It's hard to control oneself when mods are basically free upgrades to a game. And once you already installed 180 mods, what harm is another one gonna do? It's different than installing them all in a row, which leads to exhaustion.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,767
Location
Russia
finished Bloodmoon and main game. decided not to play Tribunal. Liked Bloodmoon quests even though I don't feel like this expansion fits the game and mobs are retarded.

In the end after 20 years I am disappointed with modders. They almost seem to work in bethesda style of wide instead of deep. With all that time they could have improved factions, quests and dungeons dramatically. Instead they hopped on copypasting quests from main game into skyrim engine with voice acting.

As I was playing I also studied a bit more of games design. Like learning about how writers were distributed, that one person wrote 3 houses and 3 guilds, and that Howard did the awful Imperial legion. Or that Imperial Cult was supposed to be a DLC. Explains a lot - even how you can ask directions and some keywords.
Read some old interview, where devs were excited for faction rep system. That working on one lowers opinion of another that sort of thing for every NPC. How interesting that they were driving TES into that direction at a time as compared to what we got later. Especially that it's systemic, not as much narrative based.

The writing and world does hold up, but the gameplay, eh, the gameplay... the more I played the more I wished for Morrowind that either went into direction of Gothic, or into direction of more systemic game like Daggerfall. Or, perhaps combine the two? Custom dungeons and randomly generated every playthrough roguelike dungeons for those other dungeons designer can't polish could be a ok option. Also these big games REALLY can't properly function without some sort of simulated economy. Because it is so tied to player power and progress that it needs its own design workings. Stuff like trade goods and money sinks ala Space Rangers. How strange for developers to create these gigantic worlds and never put any, even simpliest scripts for economy like lowering prices if you sell too much same shit.
Once again I also appreciate the slower walking and fog, and chunks of map limited by mountains. Due to technical limitations developers were truly up to something which became less used later. Add some verticality and ambushes and cool stuff and world can be shrinked even more but still feel big. It really doesn't take that much time to do quests in Morrowind. Much better starting point to design game from than Skyrim which has kilometers of plains you can run through and don't find anything interesting.
 
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Sceptic

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin
Read some old interview, where devs were excited for faction rep system. That working on one lowers opinion of another that sort of thing for every NPC. How interesting that they were driving TES into that direction at a time as compared to what we got later. Especially that it's systemic, not as much narrative based.
That's exactly how the Daggerfall reputation system worked, so they wouldn't have exactly been reinventing the wheel or taking TES into a new direction. Instead they did take it into a new (for TES) direction in MW by making the faction reputations interact with each other purely narratively (cf Fighters and Thieves guilds questlines). I don't mind it per se, and there are some subtle and interesting deviations in many of the quests due to how you do others that I really like, but I think having those changes depend on a more system reputation system like DF's would've been even more interesting. Later games did away with both systems entirely and it's one of the reasons Oblivion's quests feel so bland and disconnected.

The writing and world does hold up, but the gameplay, eh, the gameplay... the more I played the more I wished for Morrowind that either went into direction of Gothic, or into direction of more systemic game like Daggerfall. Or, perhaps combine the two?
I think MW already was this combination. They toned down a lot of the systems compared to DF to introduce more hand-crafted and specific interactions between the components of the systems. I don't think it's a bad idea per se, in fact as an explorationfag the perfect middle-ground would make for my ideal CRPG. The problem was with the way they implemented this combination, with the vast majority of the dungeons simply being too small and uninteresting, and the economy as you mentioned having gaping holes you could drive Fort Knox through (they tried to implement limits on how much gold vendors have, but really, there's so little use for gold that it doesn't even matter), and while the quest interactions are interesting when they happen they just don't happen often enough (keeping a more systemic interaction as you discussed earlier would've worked better too).
 

Thal

Augur
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
408
Read some old interview, where devs were excited for faction rep system. That working on one lowers opinion of another that sort of thing for every NPC. How interesting that they were driving TES into that direction at a time as compared to what we got later. Especially that it's systemic, not as much narrative based.
That's exactly how the Daggerfall reputation system worked, so they wouldn't have exactly been reinventing the wheel or taking TES into a new direction. Instead they did take it into a new (for TES) direction in MW by making the faction reputations interact with each other purely narratively (cf Fighters and Thieves guilds questlines). I don't mind it per se, and there are some subtle and interesting deviations in many of the quests due to how you do others that I really like, but I think having those changes depend on a more system reputation system like DF's would've been even more interesting. Later games did away with both systems entirely and it's one of the reasons Oblivion's quests feel so bland and disconnected.

Morrowind has the faction reputation system, which affects npc disposition towards you. The problem, of course, is that there are so many easy ways to raise disposition that you hardly ever notice it.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
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Apr 21, 2006
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Tampon Bay
most hardcore modders like to dangerously flirt with the concept of pretending to be "minimalist" and installing five mods max before relapsing and spending six months smushing together 500 mods into one install. there is no in-between

And in many ways it is very amusing. To see people not only feel the same longing and frustration like yourself one day but unable to move on.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
Instead they did take it into a new (for TES) direction in MW by making the faction reputations interact with each other purely narratively (cf Fighters and Thieves guilds questlines).
it's really interesting how people will make authoritative statements like this when a quick visit to any faction page on the UESP would pull up a chart like this

ltaBXv8.png


As Thal stated, faction reputation affects NPC disposition. The formula is (Faction Reaction * 5)*(0.5 +(Faction Rank *0.5)) which is then added or subtracted to the NPC's base disposition, which itself is determined by the Personality stat, race and general Reputation (separate from faction). It doesn't often come up, but a character with low Personality and a high rank in a few factions may find that NPCs from opposing factions will have a low enough disposition to simply not speak with them, or at least refuse services etc
 
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Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,767
Location
Russia
You misquoted Funposter, it was Sceptic post. I doubt he doesn't know about the table too, that's not really the point, but that faction mechanics don't make them affect each other (like in New Vegas where factions fight each other).
 
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Jaedar

Arcane
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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Morrowind is a cool game, but also soooo very broken.

I started a playthrough as a mage a few weeks back, at this point I met the dissidents and became archmagister of telvanni. The combat is fairly bad, the graphics are very flat and low on polygons (dat artystle is great though) and there's not a lot of standard roleplaying (dialogue options, multiple quest solutions, etc). Even so, I am having a great time teleporting and flying around vvardenfell and spitting on loser redorans.

I feel like mages are kind of bad at combat (most combat options cost too much magicka to be efficient and magicka potions are expensive and rare), so my actual combat tactics have mostly devolved into using various enchanted items, mostly for summoning stuff (my conjuration is low level, but even if it wasn't I suspect the magicka costs would be too high). Although half the time I just use levitate and fly past (suckers who can't fly aren't worthy of my fists). This is balanced out by mages being the best at everything else though, and teleporting around with 0 effort is nice.

The quests are mostly interesting, even if there are quite a lot of "go to X, talk to Y, come back" (the context and writing is usually interesting). The lore is great, I am actually hoping to find more in game books to provide more context for the history of Nerevar and the tribunal.

But it's more fun to whine about the game being broken. It's ridiculous how you get ambushed by assassins wearing one of the best armors in the game (and the ones that are better seem to be exceedingly rare or in "post mq" areas) the first time you go to sleep. It's ridiculous how even coming close to the enchantment limit of a lot of items requires hundreds of levels in enchanting while some of the best spells and effects can be cast by a complete novice (or enchanted into a cast on use ring for cheap).

Still, I am surprised how well it holds up. I'm running openMW with only a minor gameplay mod (quicker plant harvesting) and hacked view distance and it plays very well. Only thing that really annoys me is being asked how many potions I want to pick up every time I try to drink one.

I hesitate to ask, but are there any gameplay overhauls that fix the brokenness without being shit? Might try one for another character once I am done with MQ+Tribunal.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,359
Jaedar For OpenMW, I have no idea.

For standard Morrowind:
  • For Dark Brotherhood attacks, use Expansion Delay. You will get attacked only when you advance far enough in the main quest (after you become Hlaalu Hortator).
  • For potion spamming, Controlled Consumption is great. I use a different mod myself but Controlled Consumption is simple and it works.
  • For overall gameplay brokenness, you can use Morrowind Anti-Cheese, Beware the Sixth House, Tribunal Rebalance, and Bloodmoon Rebalance.
But if you want a truly non-broken experience, you will need far more mods, and many would argue at least one of them (my favorite) takes the fun out of the game.
 

Hag

Savant
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Codex Year of the Donut
Morrowind is a cool game, but also soooo very broken.

I feel like mages are kind of bad at combat (most combat options cost too much magicka to be efficient and magicka potions are expensive and rare), so my actual combat tactics have mostly devolved into using various enchanted items, mostly for summoning stuff (my conjuration is low level, but even if it wasn't I suspect the magicka costs would be too high). Although half the time I just use levitate and fly past (suckers who can't fly aren't worthy of my fists). This is balanced out by mages being the best at everything else though, and teleporting around with 0 effort is nice.

If you join the Mage Guild you can use their chests with free magicka potions that replenish once a day or something like that. Feel free to use and abuse. You can also train your alchemy to become self-sufficient in potions, which will take some time, but the guild will cover your needs meantime.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
10,393
Location
Flowery Land
Thinking of doing fresh install and staying on mainland (Tamriel Rebuilt) areas with quests in OpenMW. Any recomendations for mods beyond Patch for Purists and GCD Lean?
 

Brujoloco

Educated
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
72
Location
Venezuela
Thinking of doing fresh install and staying on mainland (Tamriel Rebuilt) areas with quests in OpenMW. Any recomendations for mods beyond Patch for Purists and GCD Lean?

Try my loadscreens! They add a bit more flavor to the game and literally wont alter anything beyond it if you want to keep the game pure: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/48576

Sadly since you are on OpenMW I cant recommend a lot of my fav mods which work only with MWSE like Ashfall and many many others, which is the only thing stopping me to switch fully to it, but there are several good mods out there that dont require MWSE.

Depends on what you want though, exploration, combat, quests, locations, dungeons? too many to list at a whim.

As a start check my friend RandomPal suggestions here:

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/48812

Hope this helps! I am also very open to sharing MW info about modding as I am an avid modder for the game :)
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
10,393
Location
Flowery Land
Brujoloco
I did wind up installing MW, setting up mods and playing by the time you posted. Starting modlist is some optimization/convenience/eye candy mods, TR and its friend and GCD with start script fixed (found it recommended over lean). Added a few Telvanni expansions before doing much of anything on mainland. I'm surprised my MW folder is less than 8GB (Base install was 2 something GB, and most of the current is Tamriel Data+the better textures).

I guess I'll add the loading screens. I won't see them much though, since OpenMW is really stable (14 hours and not a single crash) and load times are actually pretty decent (initial load is short and area transition loads are just a short pause). I'm avoiding city expansion mods because I'm more interested in interesting quests expansions and city expansions tend to be huge compatibility mess.

Pearl collection isn't as broken as selling homemade potions/filled soul gems/unguarded valuable items you can get with metaknowledge or selling things back for more than you bought them for, but it's still really good at wrecking the economy. Once you've got the Boots of Blinding Speed, and enough magic to cast water walking+a decent TK spell you can easily grab dozens of pearls quickly, easily and safely to afford plenty of training (which matters in GCD since misc skills still increase your attributes).
 

Brujoloco

Educated
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Jan 6, 2018
Messages
72
Location
Venezuela
Brujoloco

Pearl collection isn't as broken as selling homemade potions/filled soul gems/unguarded valuable items you can get with metaknowledge or selling things back for more than you bought them for, but it's still really good at wrecking the economy. Once you've got the Boots of Blinding Speed, and enough magic to cast water walking+a decent TK spell you can easily grab dozens of pearls quickly, easily and safely to afford plenty of training (which matters in GCD since misc skills still increase your attributes).

Hmmm, if you want to truly limit yourself in way to avoid breaking the economy you can try this mod:

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47130
This mod adjusts the economy in a much more "realistic" way and it is based on a classical and very complex mod that adjusted the economy .


or if you want wide change small but powerful mods:

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/48070

This simply makes coins have real weight, it can be a real gamechanger!
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
10,954
ive decided to go back and enjoy morrowind on ultra wide. Got mge xe and code patch installed. It looks nice but I think it used to look better? For example I recall night being so dark you cant explore without night eyes or light source and its not the case now. Any idea what am I missing based on this description? I sort of went with defaults in mge xe
 

Brujoloco

Educated
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
72
Location
Venezuela
ive decided to go back and enjoy morrowind on ultra wide. Got mge xe and code patch installed. It looks nice but I think it used to look better? For example I recall night being so dark you cant explore without night eyes or light source and its not the case now. Any idea what am I missing based on this description? I sort of went with defaults in mge xe

Well, light behaves differently in MGE XE , personally I would recommend you try this amazing mod :

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47133

That is True Light and Darkness Necro Edit , it approaches what you might consider old style blackouts and to top it off it is customizable if you want to delve into it using MWSE.

With MWSE you can literally create specific light presets on the fly and it is super super easy to do with the ingame menu.

Also you can further tweak light settings externally as well using MGE XE directly .

Some of the most common values to play around until you get what you want are these:

Go to "Dynamic Lighting Coefficients" setting "In-Game" tab in MGE XE and input any of these values


#1(3.250, 0, 0.360)

#2(2.619, 1.0, 0.382)

#3(4.200, 0, 0.340)

#4(5.400, 0, 0.270)

You can begin tweaking these at your leisure but personally I prefer modifications done on the fly with MWSE.

Bear in mind some other settings within MGE XE affect light as well, like presets which to make a long story short are like very light versions of reshades the engine can recreate within Morrowind.

You can find some common presets here if you want different light and color on your own version of Morrowind:

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44223

MGE XE and MWSE are the main reasons I can not simply switch to OpenMW, due to the amount of incredible mods out there for it.
 

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