Demo Hotfix is up:
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Vapourware Zodiac Legion - X-COM and dungeons
- Thread starter Galdred
- Start date
Sacibengala
Prophet
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,154
Just checked it out. Problem persists, BUT...I decided then to launch it with steam closed. Problem gone, the mouse works as intended. Maybe it is steam overlay? I don't know.
One more thing, the game still stop responding on exit. and stop responding to enter the dungeon, but in the dungeon it starts responding after a while. The game ins running on SSD, by the way.
The Steam issue is really weird. That said, I seldom play it from the Steam launcher.
I will check it out on Monday. I don't know whether I have any control over the Steam overlay.
I get a crash message on exit too on Windows 7, but it exits in a more "regular way" on Windows 10 fir me.
I need to add a loading screen when entering the dungeon. The game loads a lot of assets at this time.
The camera moves are still weird during AI turn, so I will address that next. I streamed a WiP outdoor map today, but there were a few micro issues: No levers were spawned, the river was considered passable on the edges of the map, and the trees didn't block LoS...
I patched the weird camera moves on enemy turn (I think!), and added a defeat screen. So I think I now need to move back to improving the game itself:
I will resume work on the AI (so that it knows when to open door, and when to cast a spell), and tweak damage a little, so that blunt weapons inflict concussion damage, and penetration and damage are more different from each other.
I will resume work on the AI (so that it knows when to open door, and when to cast a spell), and tweak damage a little, so that blunt weapons inflict concussion damage, and penetration and damage are more different from each other.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 20,562
Played the demo a bit more.
Cleared "close portal" and "prison escape" levels with default party; got no idea what I'm supposed to do in 3rd one.
Some random impressions follow.
-Before I started playing this I was ready to compare this to Drums of War or Warbanners, but some dungeon crawl scenarios from Battle for Westnoth seems closer analog.
-Combat seem to center around killing enemies ASAP, there doesn't seem to be buffs or de-buffs or such around. (Or I didn't notice because I didn't check alternative crew members)
-Combat generally is very deadly with units going down from 1 or 2 hits.
-Units, tileset and most props seem reasonably pretty. Chests for some reason look somehow out of place.
-There are objects you can interact with in dungeons, but mousing them feels kinda fiddly. It also would be nice if player would get better info what interacting with things do; now there's this floating thing in the middle of the room that has "use"-icon when I hover mouse over it, but I got no idea if it does anything.
-Way to higlight interactable objects would be nice.
-Difficulty seem to come from enemy reinforcements that get teleported into levels as alarm levels increase. Sometime ago I tried demo of Shardpunk: Verminfall which had somewhat similar enemy spawn mechanic. Bounced off from that quickly.
ZL doesn't seem as frustrating as Shardpunk in that regard, but reliance on enemy spawns might make level design challenging, so that mechanic won't turn into overt annoyance.
-This is WiP demo so there are rough edges, like "end turn"-button sometimes needing double click, random camera movement during enemy turn, game communicating somewhat poorly how many actions character has left etc.
-I've said it before and I'll say it again. Combat log would be nice.
-I liked musics.
edit.
-Usually I would post screens, but ZL didn't seem to work with usual stuff I use.
edit2.
-Please add some way too see where archers could shoot.
Cleared "close portal" and "prison escape" levels with default party; got no idea what I'm supposed to do in 3rd one.
I'm probably being dumb due to flu.
Some random impressions follow.
-Before I started playing this I was ready to compare this to Drums of War or Warbanners, but some dungeon crawl scenarios from Battle for Westnoth seems closer analog.
-Combat seem to center around killing enemies ASAP, there doesn't seem to be buffs or de-buffs or such around. (Or I didn't notice because I didn't check alternative crew members)
-Combat generally is very deadly with units going down from 1 or 2 hits.
-Units, tileset and most props seem reasonably pretty. Chests for some reason look somehow out of place.
-There are objects you can interact with in dungeons, but mousing them feels kinda fiddly. It also would be nice if player would get better info what interacting with things do; now there's this floating thing in the middle of the room that has "use"-icon when I hover mouse over it, but I got no idea if it does anything.
-Way to higlight interactable objects would be nice.
-Difficulty seem to come from enemy reinforcements that get teleported into levels as alarm levels increase. Sometime ago I tried demo of Shardpunk: Verminfall which had somewhat similar enemy spawn mechanic. Bounced off from that quickly.
ZL doesn't seem as frustrating as Shardpunk in that regard, but reliance on enemy spawns might make level design challenging, so that mechanic won't turn into overt annoyance.
-This is WiP demo so there are rough edges, like "end turn"-button sometimes needing double click, random camera movement during enemy turn, game communicating somewhat poorly how many actions character has left etc.
-I've said it before and I'll say it again. Combat log would be nice.
-I liked musics.
edit.
-Usually I would post screens, but ZL didn't seem to work with usual stuff I use.
edit2.
-Please add some way too see where archers could shoot.
Last edited:
Thank you for your feedback, Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
Combat is indeed about killing opponents before being surrounded. There are not that many buffs or debuffs at the moment. I plan to add a few (mostly auras, because I like their impact on positionning):
Currently, poisoning does decrease the attack and defense of the target, but only Ophiuchis has it.
But in order to do so, you usually need to get sufficient support against a target, or flank it (because having 3 or more attack over the target defense will usually guarantee a critical hit).
Heavily armored opponents usually take longer to kill if you cannot get a critical hit against them.
In the third one, you are supposed to assassinate the dragon knight in the 3rd part of the dungeon (the first two parts are the ones in which you groups of 3 appear, and the last one is the one that is linked to both of these).
Combat is indeed about killing opponents before being surrounded. There are not that many buffs or debuffs at the moment. I plan to add a few (mostly auras, because I like their impact on positionning):
Currently, poisoning does decrease the attack and defense of the target, but only Ophiuchis has it.
But in order to do so, you usually need to get sufficient support against a target, or flank it (because having 3 or more attack over the target defense will usually guarantee a critical hit).
Heavily armored opponents usually take longer to kill if you cannot get a critical hit against them.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 20,562
There was one stationary enemy at said 3rd part of the dungeon, but it didn't move, attack or anything.
I'm pretty certain that I moved one of my units to hex where he was.
Sometimes, opponents can glitch if I misstype their profile (and they get no basestats). They end up with 0 in every stats + equipment bonuses, but also get 0 action and moves.
I will have to check it out, but the opponent lineup is randomized.
Regarding the other tactical considerations, there is no buff yet, but units in an enemy zone of Control don't provide support (but the ZoC of the defender and attacker are not counted obviously).
Larger shields (Kite shield and pavise shield/Scutum) provide cover bonus to allies nearby against ranged attack, if the shield bearer is as close or closer to the shooter.
Archers in melee have a large debuf (-1 for each opponent if he is in someone else's ZoC, and -2 otherwise)
As for the tactical considerations, I plan to add the following changes on top of magic skills:
Generic "boost" action so that everyone can use stamina:
Boost will grant : +1 Damage and keep best of 2 rolls for attack OR +2 moves (depending on what is your next action).
Stun:
Some of the damage prevented by armor will be turned into stamina damage (if base damage was very high)
Bludgeoning weapons will
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 20,562
I wanted armor to feel different than in most games, where they just somewhat reduce damage. Also, having stun happening when stamina damage drops the total under zero felt like a good way to make bludgeoning weapons different, without making stun too obnoxious.
It was more a way to represent the need to use dedicated techniques and weapons against the heaviest armors (halfswording, stunning the guy then opening the visor for a finishing blow...).
But there will be quite a few magic ways to go through armor obviously.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 29,787
Like lockpicks?
rather randomly:
Perhaps for the reinforcements, some way to know when they are supposed to arrive (or when the alarm level is going to increase) wouldn't be amiss.
there's a character that's not showing correctly in one of the "briefing"
Also when using special abilities, I have to use left click when clicking on the target, whereas I have to use right click to use the standard attack without clicking on the standard attack action in the bar. It feels inconsistent.
Burn, skeletons!
In some enemy turn, the team2 turn box disappears and the UI to give orders reappeared; orders given then are just executed after the enemies' turn is done.
I like the death animation of the demon knight
Perhaps for the reinforcements, some way to know when they are supposed to arrive (or when the alarm level is going to increase) wouldn't be amiss.
there's a character that's not showing correctly in one of the "briefing"
Also when using special abilities, I have to use left click when clicking on the target, whereas I have to use right click to use the standard attack without clicking on the standard attack action in the bar. It feels inconsistent.
Burn, skeletons!
In some enemy turn, the team2 turn box disappears and the UI to give orders reappeared; orders given then are just executed after the enemies' turn is done.
I like the death animation of the demon knight
That could work!
Yes, definitely!
Alarm levels are not fully implemented yet (they only impact reinforcements), but I planned to have something like:
Level 1: enemy groups that are on patrol mission are activated (ie, they can open doors and look for the player team)
Level 2: More traps get rearmed
Level 3: Enemy groups that are on defense can bar the door
Level 4: reinforcements start coming
Level 5: reinforcements at maximum
But only 4 and 5 work at the moment. I wanted to convey a "commando" feel to the dungeon raids, with the player having to move in, complete the mission, and extract (but extraction can get tiresome. I will definitely add a few missions with it, though).
But reinforcements would not be the only way to do so:
In some missions, the enemy could be able to cause "geoscape damage" if he is left alone too long (for instance, if a mage is farcasting nukes on your soldiers outside the dungeon, you should lose a lot more of them it you take 60 turns to take him out than if you take 20).
I was using the "Starcraft UI convention" (kind of), also in use in nuXCOM but several players also complained about it. I will add both options.
I really need to add animation synchronisation for the turn box (and the player action freeze).
Thank you
I didn't get much complains about animation speed? Is it ok? I plan to add a move animation settings too (and maybe attack, but it could be trickier, with all the SFX and dodge/hit timed on the animations).
I will stream a let's play today on a new outdoor map at 5PM CST (so in 2h12), and a Q&A tomorrow at the same time, as part of the Steam Tabletop event.
I added a ton of AI changes, but it turned the AI into a complete mess, with groups running past the player team to reach the objective room, or AI soldiers opening doors instead of attacking player characters, so I won't be able to showcase them.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/812910/eventcomments/3115920924801679580/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/812910/eventcomments/3115920924801744011/
You can ask questions you have had on your mind for a while, like "will Libra be the best?" or "what influence did Saint Seiya have on the game?" on Discord, here, or on the Steam forum.
I will update the demo as soon as the AI and active prop changes are working and tested, so in a few weeks.
I added a ton of AI changes, but it turned the AI into a complete mess, with groups running past the player team to reach the objective room, or AI soldiers opening doors instead of attacking player characters, so I won't be able to showcase them.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/812910/eventcomments/3115920924801679580/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/812910/eventcomments/3115920924801744011/
You can ask questions you have had on your mind for a while, like "will Libra be the best?" or "what influence did Saint Seiya have on the game?" on Discord, here, or on the Steam forum.
I will update the demo as soon as the AI and active prop changes are working and tested, so in a few weeks.
Last edited:
The AI still feels a bit wonky(wasting attacks on characters it has 0,5% chance of hurting, charging with its archers), but we are getting there!
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 29,787
Taurus legion approves.
KeighnMcDeath
RPG Codex Boomer
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2016
- Messages
- 15,299
Sorry, I recycled the same screenshot
I am still working on the AI (now the movement order and targeting priorities, then positionning and ability selection).
Afterwards, I will revamp the demo structure, because the start is quite confusing, so I will start the player directly in combat, work on QoL improvements, and maybe add some kind of help about how the game works until we get to making a real tutorial.
Then, I will add a few abilities and active props ("magic artillery") .
After that, I will work on geoscape persistence (level up, mission outcomes, ...), and then, randomized missions.
I am still working on the AI (now the movement order and targeting priorities, then positionning and ability selection).
Afterwards, I will revamp the demo structure, because the start is quite confusing, so I will start the player directly in combat, work on QoL improvements, and maybe add some kind of help about how the game works until we get to making a real tutorial.
Then, I will add a few abilities and active props ("magic artillery") .
After that, I will work on geoscape persistence (level up, mission outcomes, ...), and then, randomized missions.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.