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Vapourware Zodiac Legion - X-COM and dungeons

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Crown wars looks interesting, I don't know if it's just me but I get some expedition: conquistadors vibes from the battle screens.

I hope your formula works...
Crown Wars went with smaller encounters, but the part between pods is turn based, like in XCOM.

Anyway, back to Zodiac Legion development:

We patched most random map mission issues (mostly, some room features, like treasure or guardsroom not existing for some rooms of a given size), and horrible performances because of too many animated objects (I stopped animating things that are not on screen).
I also added idle animations for all characters. It was a bit of a mess to make them not interfere with "regular" animations:

idle_animations.gif


Mortmal taunted me into making the game work at *2 or *3 scale on 4K screens:

I still have to sort the mouse controls out...

Then, I'll go back to debugging the intermission phase and making things carry over.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
Sep 25, 2012
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29,772
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Crown wars looks interesting, I don't know if it's just me but I get some expedition: conquistadors vibes from the battle screens.

I hope your formula works...
Crown Wars went with smaller encounters, but the part between pods is turn based, like in XCOM.

Anyway, back to Zodiac Legion development:

We patched most random map mission issues (mostly, some room features, like treasure or guardsroom not existing for some rooms of a given size), and horrible performances because of too many animated objects (I stopped animating things that are not on screen).
I also added idle animations for all characters. It was a bit of a mess to make them not interfere with "regular" animations:

View attachment 50676

Mortmal taunted me into making the game work at *2 or *3 scale on 4K screens:

I still have to sort the mouse controls out...

Then, I'll go back to debugging the intermission phase and making things carry over.
Mortmal bless you you damned frenchman
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Latest news:
We are working on adding a prone status effect and execution that lets you totally bypass armor:

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I'll be rolling the UI relooking as soon as I am done patching the remaining scaling issues (mostly the lack of check on the scaling value, which causes the setting box to be too big).

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There was also something I wanted to get something off my chest for a long time, as the tactical turn-based genre got relentlessly assaulted by the habringers of anti randomness decline :



There has been so many attempt to "fix randomness" in XCOM-inspired games, that I have been itching to address the randomness vs skill issue, and explain why we strongly believe in RNG for Zodiac Legion.
The common argument is that randomness reduces skill because the best player doesn't always win, or some variant (of not rewarding good play).But that is more complicated.Let's start with a very totally unbiased graph.Depth is mostly how hard it is for computers to beat.

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The relative position of a lot of game is arbitrary (I put chess low to trigger the anti-randomness crowd, but it was beaten before poker, though), but it cannot be argued that Tic Tac Toe has both less randomness and involves less skill than poker.
Randomness forces you to plan around your possible mistakes:Blood Bowl is a perfect example, as the results of a failed action can be dramatic, the first part of your turn is to mitigate the consequences of failures (by protecting the ball before doind something risky).

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It is the same for XCOM: the possiblity of failure forces you to have a B plan (and an C plan...), to deal with it, while it doesn't really make sense in a deterministic game. It also forces you to balance getting the best average outcome, vs the one with the lowest risk.
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Even if a deterministic game can be made very deep, you cannot have this kind of decisions in it. That is why Zodiac Legion fully embraces randomness.However, we also strongly believe in giving the player the tools to manage risks and recover from failure.

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You get a deep roster, you can transfer artifacts, and the "zodiac empowerement" from one champion to his successor. If it comes to this, you can also elect a new grandmaster of the order to continue the fight in your place, unless you prefer relying on Necromancy to cheat death.

skeleton_dispenser.gif
 
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ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,772
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There was also something I wanted to get something off my chest for a long time, as the tactical turn-based genre got relentlessly assaulted by the habringers of anti randomness decline :
Completely agree. Turn based isn't fun unless you roll with the failures too. No plan survives contact with the enemy and all that.
 

Vrab

Savant
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Messages
100
Speaking of individual battles at least, I hated randomness of 2012 X-COM. But that was because in early game, with only (iirc) 4 troopers and everyone potentially being one-shot-kills as well as capable of one action per turn, a single 5% shot hitting or 95% missing would turn the game around. In old XCOMs this was well mitigated by number of soldiers being much higher from the very start, and would result in risk being confined for the most part to individual soldiers, and not to the overall fight. When playing well, that is. So even going fully random, but with a decent number of characters/actions per turn, good play will be superior to bad play. That is good random.

As long as there are a certain minimum number of characters, as long as they don't normally get one-shot and team combined can take a decent number of actions per turn, things should be fine.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Speaking of individual battles at least, I hated randomness of 2012 X-COM. But that was because in early game, with only (iirc) 4 troopers and everyone potentially being one-shot-kills as well as capable of one action per turn, a single 5% shot hitting or 95% missing would turn the game around. In old XCOMs this was well mitigated by number of soldiers being much higher from the very start, and would result in risk being confined for the most part to individual soldiers, and not to the overall fight. When playing well, that is. So even going fully random, but with a decent number of characters/actions per turn, good play will be superior to bad play. That is good random.

As long as there are a certain minimum number of characters, as long as they don't normally get one-shot and team combined can take a decent number of actions per turn, things should be fine.
Also, in OG X-COM, losing soldiers was not the end of the world, while losing your A team in Nu XCOM usually spells the end of the campaign.

Btw, the game got a preview here:
https://bigbossbattle.com/zodiac-legion-preview/

Turn-based, squad based fantasy games seem to be a dime-a-dozen these days, but the danger of assuming that they’re all similar means that you’ll risk missing promising titles like Zodiac Legions.

There’s a chance that, due to its visual style, people will look at Zodiac Legion and think it’s some long-gone, dated game that didn’t quite hit home when it launched. That’s a big shame, because it’s actually a fusion of a lot of popular mechanics and will feel instantly familiar to a lot of RPG and turn-based, squad-based games. It’s big appeal is in the flexibility and expendability of your order, that having just the right fighter present can completely change the result, and that sometimes leaving somebody behind to die is the best way to get through a scenario before the danger levels creep too high. That’s right, we’re channelling XCOM 2 and Battle Brothers baby.






I’ve been playing through the Zodiac Legion demo and having quite a lot of fun. The fundamentals of it are, as I said earlier, really familiar. You’ve a base of operation that you’re attempting to project from, you’ll take missions in surrounding areas to strengthen yourself, and also — later in the game — to protect your realm from invading armies. It’s the early game that I’ve been mucking around in, however there’s already solid foundations laid down for the escalation as things like an alarm level, certain prerequisites for mission completion and nods toward later-game abilities appear harmlessly, but quickly, from the get-go.

It means that Zodiac Legion is a game that grows through specialisation, with extra options coming later rather than totally new mechanics or, as with some of its contemporaries, weapons. Those same objects in the early stages can be portals for enemies later, those same walls and doors that serve as the structure to the levels can be smashed down with godlike abilities, or simply teleported past using magic. It’s all about named specialists who can become entirely core to your strategy but then become dead specialists.

Zodiac-Legion-2-1024x576.jpg


Now, there are a couple of other things I need to discuss. For one, while I said that I can see how the mid-and-late game will likely proceed, the current build is very early and lacks some of the later magical abilities; so it’s going to have to be a grower for you if you get involved this early. Secondly, I’m an aficionado of this sprite-based artwork and played a tonne of games like this when I was younger. If you’re second guessing because of the UI and artwork, that’s not something I can help you with. It’s pretty easy to read once you’re in there, in-fact, the UI uses up very limited space despite being in the style of 90s RPG UI, which was notoriously unwieldly and used to consume a lot of the default resolution screen.

There are a few things that’ll hopefully be added in soon, largely the later game features that are on the way. However, there’s also something personal missing, namely that, while there are a bunch of different models and portraits available the character names simply exist as a small strip of text near their stats when selected. I don’t know quite where the fix for this comes from, but when your characters are essential puzzle pieces that level up independently and leave a massive hole in your team when they’re dead, some personality (or even just clearer visibility on which of the dozen characters they are) would really help them stand out from one another.

Zodiac-Legion-3-1024x576.jpg


Once things click, it gets really good: Kite the enemies into bottlenecks and then mess them up with magic and arrows; Assemble and hold a formation against enemies with your reach weapons forming a second row behind your first; Get one of your troops around to the back to wipe out the missile fighters while your main group shield wall and suck up any melee attacks. There’re a lot of options, and if you’re careful (and have a healer) then you can get through most of the current missions without taking a scratch.

I love the idea of smashing directly through dungeon walls, or ultimately gaining abilities that seem frankly game-breaking from the outset. When you’re fighting hellish enemies to a legendary scale, you should definitely be able to develop legendary capabilities. The most compelling thing to me though is that only select characters can go to the utmost extreme, the characters that are synched to the Zodiac signs. On paper it’s the same as psionic capabilities in XCOM or reaching the highest stats in Jagged Alliance, but in a fantasy setting full of procedural layouts that lean towards step-by-step progressions it feels really fresh and new.

Zodiac-Legion-4-1024x576.jpg


Even though its still got at least a year left in the oven, Zodiac Legion is already a really promising squad-based strategy title.

Zodiac Legion will be available on PC when it launches, there’s currently a demo available on Steam.
 
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Haba

Harbinger of Decline
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There are two levels of "game ending", i.e. you lose because of resources lost and you lose because you can't bring yourself into going through the same effort again.

In X-Com the soldiers are largely expendable as the effort you've spent in raising them is rather limited (and you are able to train replacements proactively). The more RPG mechanics you add, the more investment the player has into the characters.

If one were to create a fantasy X-Com, I'd probably focus more on the equipment than the actual characters that carry them. If the hero dies... well, a new hero can take the hero's sword.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If one were to create a fantasy X-Com, I'd probably focus more on the equipment than the actual characters that carry them. If the hero dies... well, a new hero can take the hero's sword.
Indeed, that is what we wanted to do: tie the magic progression to research and HQ Zodiac facilities:
The Libra building level 4 would allow empowering 2 character armor to level 2, and 2 to level 1, or something like that.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
As our current character artist will stop working on the project, I went through all the unusued stuff we had, and tried to cobble things together.
Our paperdolling system would let us get a few more hybrids easily:

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Also, I repurposed some pieces and frames to make some new animations:

South Stand Up2finalRev2 Player.gif

This is for recovery after getting stun/knocked prone, but it could also work for disarm and recovery, just by detaching the sword.
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
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As our current character artist will stop working on the project
Will you be able to find character artist who's able to continue drawing in same style? Your art style is really good mix of Baldur's Gate ft Berserk. What's name of your game engine btw?
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
As our current character artist will stop working on the project
Will you be able to find character artist who's able to continue drawing in same style? Your art style is really good mix of Baldur's Gate ft Berserk. What's name of your game engine btw?
Thank you!
I already had to go through several artist changes, so it should be possible. Every time, the additions to make were limited to either a new animation (we had so much positions that these would be 95% recycled), or a few new pieces (tabard, new helmets...).
One issue is that our animation files are quite complex with lots of layers on top of each other (each layer on each frame is a possible piece of armour, so the file has like 250 layers for each frame).

The engine I use is moai, but I must be one of the last 5 people on earth to use it :)
It was used by Harebrained Studio to make the games before shadowrun, Double Fine for their adventure game, and Klei for Invisible Inc. The most recent game that used it was Eastwards
 
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