NWN 2: mask of the betrayer is out now.

[Vault Dweller]

Based on opinions like these, this would be as good a time as any to do an official codex review of MotB. This site should feel responsible in promoting games that encompass qualities that the forum community finds enjoyable, rather than constantly directing their attention to the games that lack them.

I've already said that I will review the expansion. Give me 2-3 weeks after it's out in North America.

 

[Starwars]

Based on opinions like these, this would be as good a time as any to do an official codex review of MotB. This site should feel responsible in promoting games that encompass qualities that the forum community finds enjoyable, rather than constantly directing their attention to the games that lack them.

I believe VD has stated somewhere that he's gonna give MotB a write-up once he gets his hands on it.

Anyways, on the whole epic thing...

I liked how in the expansion your immediate motives are survival, but as the story goes on you'll have a huge impact on the world as well. Whether your motives for pursuing the story change or not is up to the player though. I'm not gonna spoil it, but I also feel that this story felt very 'epic' in the *good* sense of the word, and not in the buzzword "omg our game is so epic!!1!1" sense.

EDIT: VD beat me to it.

 

[aweigh]

u mean moar epic than pulling a magical shard out of ur ass??

 

[Starwars]

More epic than stopping a thousand Daedric invasions!

 

[RK47]

anyone can give me pointers on crafting recipes? I haven't stumbled into any yet.

 

[Rina]

anyone can give me pointers on crafting recipes? I haven't stumbled into any yet.

Check the descriptions of brilliant essences.

 

[Solaris]

Well I caved in and bought MotB over the weekend (was going to wait for more reviews) but early impressions sounded good so I got it. Was standing in the local gamestore getting a DS game for my kids and it was there staring at me, saying buy me damnit!.....Glad I did, only played about 8 hrs aprx so far but it's looking real good.

Pretty much all aspects of the game have been improved over the original NWN2 OC. From the art direction to the storyline and companions. The only silly thing is the drops, way too much phat lewt imo. But not really a mega issue. Just would have liked to see it not so saturated. Like from hard foes/bosses only etc, would be more logical to me.

I can't really judge the Epic level thing as I'm no D&D veteran and also not far into the game yet. I'm playing a Spirit Shaman which seems quite a cool class. Didn't take my old character (Pally/Divine Champ) from original campaign through as he was a bit gimped.

At any rate, Obsidian seem to have learnt from their shortcomings in NWN2. I would say this is the best rpg experinece I've had in quite a while...hope it stays like this to the end.

Kudos to the devs

 

[Serious_Business]

I barely played it but I'm pretty convinced so far. The story is pretty intriguing, there is some detailed writing (you'll notice every little character has a description for example, and they use text as a method to convey images and scenes just like in you know the name), and the NPCs are far from annoying.

The obvious flaws are this: the same clunky interface and the fact that's it's a high-powered high-epic high-magic shit adventure. Like the other guy said, 'too much phat lewt'. Once I found 1000 gold pieces in a barrel lying in the streets. That doesn't really get my nerd-rage going on personally, but I'm sure some useless dicks will find this preposterous.

The worst obvious flaw is the gameplay and engine itself which are beyond repair really, and the desire (obligation) to appeal to those who are looking to 'toss cool fireballs and avoid going through huge amounts of text', but I do think the developers have done what they could do make the best out of it. The new resting system is something good, and the encounters are better paced and designed. So far nothing like the horrible, horrible original campaign (I never got through act 1).

Make no mistakes the first area is basically a cavern filled with shit monsters, but it still manages to be somewhat compelling because there are optional areas and some stuff you can do to avoid/ease the combat. I think the story and writing is the best points of motivation though, all said and done. Hopefully it'll stay that way for a while.

 

[Kos_Koa]

I've already said that I will review the expansion. Give me 2-3 weeks after it's out in North America.

I believe VD has stated somewhere that he's gonna give MotB a write-up once he gets his hands on it.

I missed that bit of info, my apologies. Also my tone seemed to imply that this site has an obligation that it's not fulfilling, which wasn't my intention. I merely wanted to point out the opportunity for encouraging rpg developers in making quality games, and finally proving that there is a market for such a game. I already think this site is doing a good job in that regard, so I'm sorry if I sounded pretentious. Keep up the good work, looking forward to the review.

 

[RK47]

anyone can give me pointers on crafting recipes? I haven't stumbled into any yet.

Check the descriptions of brilliant essences.

Yeah I should be more specific. I'm talking about the Spirit essence or something like that, it told me to use the Spirit Mold ability on the enchant bag with the essence and weapon inside to get Vampiric effect.

Problem is, I can't find the spirit mold ability.

 

[Texas Red]

How important are the social skills? If you succeed on them, are the results large than in the OC?

 

[DemonKing]

This barely registered with me until I saw some of these player reviews (sadly it won't be out in Australia for another 3 weeks!) but I'm actually looking forward to playing this now.

A couple of questions:

1. Is there any point playing through it with your NWN2 character if she's a Level 20 Warlock? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there are no prestige classes for Warlock and also I must admit I found her pretty dull to play in combat (as she just spammed the same attacks over and over).

2. How long does Mask of the Betrayer take to complete?

 

[RK47]

How important are the social skills? If you succeed on them, are the results large than in the OC?

I can't comment on the MotB OC since I'm just into 2 hours of play, but some NPC characters that join you can be influenced with your social skills such as Diplomacy/Intimidation, not so much as an 'automatic-bootlicking' response that was so prevalent in NWN2 OC.

e.g: Intimidating the mage to reveal more of her troubles is possible if you are more of a warrior since they lack Diplomacy or Bluff as Class skills.

Contrast this with NWN OC:
I entered an area where magic gets dampened and the sorceress shrieked in complaint, I told her this is a chance for her to use her other strengths. Result? I lost influence and she told me to go to the Nine Hells.

 

[Starwars]

1. Is there any point playing through it with your NWN2 character if she's a Level 20 Warlock? I seem to remember reading somewhere that there are no prestige classes for Warlock and also I must admit I found her pretty dull to play in combat (as she just spammed the same attacks over and over).

I read that the Warlock got some new stuff, but I'm not sure what. If you didn't enjoy playing it, then I would just start a new character instead.
A Warlock might feel more useful this time around though due to the resting restrictions.

2. How long does Mask of the Betrayer take to complete?

I don't know how long it took me personally, I'm really bad at measuring stuff like that. People seem to report about 20-25 hours.
I think the length was good. It didn't feel short nor overtly long.

 

[Astromarine]

er, sorry for the retardness. what resting restrictions? I haven't actually read on the game that much.

 

[Starwars]

First off, there is a place you'll be awakened if you rest in hostile areas (like Baldurs Gate). Then there is the fact that the passage of time effects your curse, which means that people will think twice before resting after each battle (which tended to be the way it went in the NWN2 OC).

I'm sure you can find a more detailed description on the cure somewhere around here.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I thought Ive read somewhere that the spirit-o-meter restricts your resting aswell?
Yes or no?

If yes, a vague description of it without spoilers would be nice.

 

[Oarfish]

Yes it does, and travel too. Its a slider from 100..0 with 0 indicating (I assume) permanent death. There's incremental penalties at various stages which are pretty severe - stat loss continuous injury etc. It goes down in realtime, and also during rest and travel. I'm not sure if the travel/rest penalties exactly match up with the rate it drops in realtime, but it makes for a good way of restricting resting after every battle. Given its epic level (with plenty of spellcasting NPCs)though, that's not anywhere near as much of a restriction as the deadly sleep encounters in TOEE at lower levels.

 

[Starwars]

The spirit-meter is the curse you bear in the MotB campaign. The meter ticks down as time goes (from 100-0). If the meter reaches 0 you die. There are a few different conditions along the way as well. For example, when you reach a certain level (let's say 60, can't remember the exact number in game), you will suffer a penalty to your abilities. When it gets even further down, the penalty worsens etc.

There is also a "craving" meter. The higher your craving is, the faster your spirit meter will drop.

There are different abilities, situations in the story etc as to how you choose to deal with the hunger.

The spirit-meter restricts your resting in the sense that if you rest for 8 hours (which is the option for fully regaining spells), then you will wake up with your spirit-meter lower than it was before. This might not be a very good idea in some circumstances. Hence the player becomes more careful about when to rest.

EDIT: Oarfish beat me to it.

 

[sabishii]

Oh goodie, time to roleplay an insomniac!

 

[cutterjohn]

I just finished the game. A great ride I have to say

Is it really that short of an expansion?

It's good to hear that thye people who finished it already liked it, but I heard the same things said of the OC past Act I, and I'm still finiding Act II to be dull, but at least I have an incentive to finish slogging through it such that I can stay current with this NWN incarnation.

Price: I got NWN2 for $25 the day after Thanksgiving last year... }

[EDIT]
Also, are the new camera "modes" any better than the ones originally in NWN2? The camera always bugged the crap out of me with all the zooming in and out unless you got everything setup just right.

 

[Atrokkus]

I sure will get MotD. I've just recently finished NWN2 OC, as for some time my PC wasn't good enough for games like that. And I must say I was quite impressed. It's awfully railroaded, sure, but hell it was still very enjoyable because of some parts of the story, characters and combat (i played it on DND hardcore rules and while the combat wasn't exactly hard, it was still very rewarding, kinda like in BG2).

Btw, MCA did pst and Sawyer did ..uh.. iwd2 and some hm.. don't know

Sawyer did Black Hound and that gets him a lot of respect from where I'm standing. Though IWD2 sucked balls.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Btw, MCA did pst and Sawyer did ..uh.. iwd2 and some hm.. don't know

Sawyer did Black Hound and that gets him a lot of respect from where I'm standing. Though IWD2 sucked balls.

Black Hound is done?

 

[Anthony Davis]

My cover is blown!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsssssssss....gurgle.


If I don't have anything good to say, I wouldn't bother saying anything (in public :wink: ).

I was merely stating my opinion on the project. It WAS fun to work on. Scope and Focus was tight, it was expertly managed by Kevin Saunders, Rich Taylor, and Tim Cox. I did not say it was perfect, nothing on this planet is.

My statement regarding the ending of the NWN2:OC is fact. That is the ending we intended, it just was not up to people's expectations, and I personally felt it could have used more polish. That was my implication with the 'take that as you will' comment. I will be more specific in future comments to avoid confusion. I apologize for sounding arrogant.

I do think it is human nature for people who are excited about something to descend into hyperbole, and that can lead to false or higher than normal expectations - or in the case of some, cynicism. However, in my comments I have tried to be very clear that I am stating my opinion, I am a programmer, not marketing.

Anyway, we always welcome constructive feedback over at the NWN2 forums. We have community representatives who compile everything they can about bugs and feature requests (though we don't always post feedback on a per case basis, thus the blog).


Anthony Davis
Gameplay Programmer
Obsidian Entertainment

Really? That was the ending you guys designed on purpose?

Honestly, i believed that you ran out of budget at the end and just slapped something together.

And btw, I enjoyed NWN2 very much. Closest thing to BG2 after 10 years. =(

I'll like to ask though.. WHY was that the ending you all decided on? I can immediately think of several better ways to produce a more "closure" type ending that leads to several sequels.

I am not a designer, so I have no idea how many different endings were discussed originally for NWN2:OC. What I do know, is that when we had our programmer meeting with Ferret (the original Lead Designer), this was the ending he originally described for us. I think some people were disappointed, or even hated it, because they wanted a better a resolution, which hopefully MotB provides.

What I implemented, and that part that I do like, is the Fallout-Style denouements. Basically, for those of you who have used the toolset, the ability to display full screen images in a dialog. As a programmer, I have nothing to do with the images or verbage that is displayed in the denouements.

The VO work in NWN2 was done before we hired Alexander Brandon, our new Audio Director. That is one of the reasons I feel the VO work in NX1 is so much more consistent and of a higher quality (because of Alex's oversight).

The orc caves and warehouse levels were personally not my favorite areas. The warehouse was especially difficult for me to play through. I can not speak for the design process on that, but I do know that we took the feedback we received on those levels to heart, and you won't see anything like that in MotB (to the best of my knowledge).


Anthony Davis
Gameplay Programmer
Obsidian Entertainment

 

[Texas Red]

A thread on the official boards about the Codex:

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... &forum=121