Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

[Zeriel]

New XCOM managed to have some pretty brutal combat (relative to the difficulty level casuals pick, anyway), and people still loved it. Does it take exceptional artistry to make people embrace difficulty? Sure, but it can be done.

 

[buzz]

VD is spot fucking on you goddamn niggers.

No, he's not because he misses my point completely.
I might get lynched for this, but I think that even the new XCOM was a step in the right direction. It's nothing short of good to allow the mainstream to slowly grow back on turn-based combat that's not a JRPG blob. Fallout didn't have amazing DEEP AND TACTICAL turn-based combat when it revitalized the genre in the late 90s. In fact, fairly few pure RPGs ever did.

The point of Kickstarter was to kickstart, to bring back something all of us somewhat lost. Turn-based combat was one of those things.

 

[crawlkill]

Fallout 1/2 combats were so hard and complex that i still have bad dreams about it.
What shitty games they were.

CAN'T. TELL. IF. JOKING. I literally do nothing but aim for the eyes every round with the coolest Small Guns gun I can find and breeze through the games.

I might get lynched for this, but I think that even the new XCOM was a step in the right direction.

Bleh. It has the same problem so many turn-based games do that it gets really, really samey. I've never played the old XCOM games, though, so I can't compare.

 

[evdk]

Fallout 1/2 combats were so hard and complex that i still have bad dreams about it.
What shitty games they were.

Fallout wasn't only about the combat.

 

[Zeriel]

I think he was being sarcastic. Fallout combat is piss-poor easy if you build your character in any way shape or form towards combat.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Here's another problem that I have with kickstarter as a concept to make old-school games: you are selling your idea to snobby cunts.
Even if this game is linear and doesn't have large amounts of C&C and it's not that hard, so what? The fact that it has isometric graphics, an editor and decent/fun turn-based combat while retaining a nice atmosphere already puts it high above current generation thrash. For a third of the price those games have.

What good is turn-based combat if it's easy?

Just because something is turn-based doesn't make it good. Much like choices require consequences to be meaningful, turn-based requires tactical challenge to be good. Without it, you might as well be clicking on shit in real-time.

Just because something doesn't follow the cRPG "theory" doesn't mean it's a bad cRPG.

If it "works" and feel like a cRPG, it's good.

What the fuck does 'feels like a cRPG' mean? Has quests and XP?

Also, what I said has nothing to do with any theory. TB combat slows things down and allows you to consider different options, but if there are no options to consider or if considering options is meaningless because the game is easy and you'll win no matter what you choose, it fucking sucks, plain and simple and no amount of "but ... but it's TB!" masturbation will save it.

Mind you, I'm not talking about Shadowrun as I haven't played it yet, but about easy TB in general.

Well you are making an ideal cRPG (tactically challenging TB, massive CnC and most importantly taking your time, fapped over your combat demo and open beta a lot) so your opinion has a lot of value instead of the codex shitposting trollbaits...BUT Specific to SRR, DR's observation about grenade on hard, means hopefully very hard will be a good challenge...just a few hours remaining either way.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

IGN said the combat was 'light' [tactically] but 'relatively interesting'. So IGN says a game is easy and old school RPG fans are going to find it challenging? Eh.

 

[Rake]

New XCOM managed to have some pretty brutal combat (relative to the difficulty level casuals pick, anyway), and people still loved it. Does it take exceptional artistry to make people embrace difficulty? Sure, but it can be done.

But XCOM wasn't difficult. That's the point.

 

[buzz]

IGN said the combat was 'light' [tactically] but 'relatively interesting'. So IGN says a game is easy and old school RPG fans are going to find it challenging? Eh.

The IGN review was fairly non-popamole for a mainstream review, I was quite surprised by it. Worst comment from that one was probably the "It's not a pretty game, only serviceable, because it has isometric 2D graphics".

 

[aris]

XCOM wasn't difficult? Give me a fucking break, crank the difficulty up to maximum with all handicaps, and the game is as difficult as any other out there that was ever made.

 

[Commissar Draco]

^ Turn your sarcasm detector on comrade. Also there was not one quest in Main Story line which didn't gave you an option to talks/sneak out your ass from troubles... same as in AoD which is why I preordered her despite* GFR when you think combat is too hard attitude.

* or maybe thanks to it; VD has balls which is admirable but won't help to sell his game.

 

[Zeriel]

But XCOM wasn't difficult. That's the point.

You're really going to sit here and tell me XCOM didn't have its difficulties on classic, especially on your first time through? Personally I thought Normal an utter joke, but tons of people complained about it being too hard.

Anyway, point is that XCOM's perceived difficulty was pretty damn high, but people were okay with it.

 

[Infinitron]

Summoning Gozma for an essay on XCOM's qualities and flaws.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Then you will be constantly dissapointed. W2, PE, TTON etc. will also won't be at the level of difficulty you find acceptable.

I expect them to be more challenging than what's been reported so far about Shadowrun, but they offer substantially more, at least for me. A game that's mostly about combat should do combat extremely well, because if it fails, what else is there?

TTON can have abysmal combat and still be a great game. I doubt the same can be said about Shadowrun, so I really hope it's at least somewhat challenging on Hard.

ffs, AoD level of dificulty was proven unacceptable even on Codex. That should tell you something.

It did.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-sells-ten-million-copies.83332/#post-2673742

The people that like extemely compex and difficult TB combat are so few that the game would be very low budget. And then you would have complains that it won't be "Full RPG".

I don't complain about it. WL2, PE, and TTON are supposed to be full-scale RPG, hence my comments about the schedule. I'd love to play a well done RPG that offers nothing but tactical combat.

 

[Aeschylus]

You know, although I basically agree with VD's assessment of TB combat, I can only think of one straight RPG that actually managed to tick both boxes (plenty of options and consistent challenge) in a TB combat system, and that was Pools of Radiance. Maybe some other Goldbox games to a lesser extent, but only PoR's combat really stuck out to me as tough throughout. Most games seem to either hit one or the other (or neither, as the case may be), and it does seem like SRR will be of the 'lots of options, not too hard' variety.

But of course it's all speculation for another couple hours.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fallout 1/2 combats were so hard and complex that i still have bad dreams about it.
What shitty games they were.

They offered more than combat, didn't they?

 

[Wizfall]

What the fuck does 'feels like a cRPG' mean? Has quests and XP?

Is this serious ?
People here could not agree about what is a cRPG is and you want me to answer that ?
Is Deus Ex a cRPg ? Is JA2 a cRPG ? Is Icewind Dale a cRPG ? Is even BG2 a cRPG ?
If it feels like a cRPG it's enough for me even if maybe it's not a "pure" cRPG .
To give you an example i personally find the snes Shadowrun feel like a cRPG even if the cRPG mechanics, C&C and other things were almost nonexistent or limited.

 

[likaq]

I'm wondering what cd-action think about this game?
Maybe this:

I dare say that only because of technical limitations Shadowrun Returns didn't use FPP from the beginning. There is no better way of quickly identifying with the character you roleplay than looking through their eyes, from their perspective...

 

[Infinitron]

No no no no no don't start an argument with VD about what a true CRPG is

 

[Wizfall]

Fallout 1/2 combats were so hard and complex that i still have bad dreams about it.

What shitty games they were.

They offered more than combat, didn't they?

And Shadowrun may offer more than combat no ?

 

[buzz]

@Aeschylus exactly, people make it sound like we've been spoiled to death with good TB combat in RPGs.

 

[hiver]

Then you will be constantly dissapointed. W2, PE, TTON etc. will also won't be at the level of difficulty you find acceptable.

laughable.

gone telepathic have ya?

 

[Zeriel]

Summoning Gozma for an essay on XCOM's qualities and flaws.

I could literally write a fifty-page XCOM vs. X-COM dissertation, but this didn't seem the time or the place to get into the details.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What the fuck does 'feels like a cRPG' mean? Has quests and XP?

Is this serious ?
People here could not agree about what is a cRPG is and you want me to answer that ?
Is Deus Ex a cRPg ? Is JA2 a cRPG ? Is Icewind Dale a cRPG ? Is even BG2 a cRPG ?
If it feels like a cRPG it's enough for me even if maybe it's not a "pure" cRPG .
To give you an example i personally find the snes Shadowrun feel like a cRPG even if the cRPG mechanics, C&C and other things were almost nonexistent or limited.

We were talking about combat difficulty. You said, basically, 'who cares about the difficulty, if it feels like an RPG...'. Hence, my question.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Fallout 1/2 combats were so hard and complex that i still have bad dreams about it.

What shitty games they were.

They offered more than combat, didn't they?

And Shadowrun may offer more than combat no ?

So far, based on the reviews and Darth's impressions, it doesn't seem to be the case, does it?