Why do many RPG fans hate crafting?

[Falksi]

I mean jesus christ, in what world am I supposed to look at this

and get excited or care?

Geralts beard.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I mean jesus christ, in what world am I supposed to look at this

and get excited or care?

half of the witcher 3 crafting materials weren't even used for anything at all
the entire thing was horribly designed

 

[Sigourn]

Like anything, I love crafting when it is done well.

 

[ortucis]

half of the witcher 3 crafting materials weren't even used for anything at all
the entire thing was horribly designed

You mean like the combat and majority of the side quests which are asking you to go kill a random unrelated ghost or a monster?

I liked the game, but the way it's praised makes you think it was the second cumming of the RPG's.

While we're at it, I can say without doubt that Divinity: Original Sin has THE worst crafting ever. In-fact, it was responsible for turning me off crafting completely in RPG's. I am playing Underrail right now and not dealing with crafting at all has given boost to my entertainment value.. at least +50% boost.

Only games I am OK with crafting in are survival games, like 7 Days to Die. Everyone else can go fuck itself.

 

[fantadomat]

The most annoying thing about crafting is that it is an inventory clutter. There should be just separate weightless inventory/graph that shows the resources.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

most is a boring timesink. adds nothing but a bunch of inventory clutter and busywork.

crafting that's cool: add a scope to your rifle (ie, useful feature that wouldn't otherwise be available or is a massive shortcut to it), build a weapon out of spare parts (in a game where that is needed), is actually necessary for a particular build and provides advantages beyond +1 damage, is a valid character path with massive rewards.

crafting that's not: make X potions that you can always find or survive without, add +1 to your weapon even though it doesn't really matter, can be completely ignored regardless of your build, is a pointless extra the devs tagged on for no reason.

witcher potions with a massive effect on gameplay and arcanum inventions (inventor was a valid career path) are examples of cool crafting.

 

[Incendax]

You know what crafting system I liked? Diablo 2.
Pop some gems or runes into your item, and it does some fancy stuff.
It was moderately simple, impactful, and runewords were interesting.

 

[laclongquan]

Prince of Qin has that gems-embeding as well. One reason they say it's a clone of Diablo.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

It just hasn't been done right yet.

What would "doing it right" look like? What would the challenge to overcome be? Describe the gameplay value of crafting "done right".

You gamist fucks can only think in terms of challenge and immediate fun. Crafting does not exist to challenge the player in any way, but to justify interactive worlds where every mundane item can serve a purpose, so the world can feel more real (a simulationist concern). Having metal scraps and animal hides being more than just vendor trash was the whole point of crafting in games like Arcanum and Morrowind, and it worked because their mechanics, ingredients and schematics said something about their respective worlds. This is also why it doesn't work in Oblivion and latter Bethesda games, having flora and fauna there just as an afterthought and magic effects exceedingly nerfed, crafting no longer made sense and became busywork.

Crafting by itself is shit, we can all agree, and especially when it's just a "mee-too" skill like in PoE, or when developers try to justify simulationist concepts from a gamist point of view, like D:OS with its "craft different meals for negligible combat boosts" minigame, completely missing the point of the baking bread mechanics from Ultima VII. But it can work when it's part of a whole instead of an encapsulated minigame.

 

[Cael]

If the crafting system doesn't do jack, then just ignore it. If it is the key to ultimate power, then it is not busywork.

Speaking of the D:OS meal thing, that was very much a JRPG thing that was copied over. The Japanese love their concerts and cooking and jazz like that, which is, oddly enough, an actual part of their Bushido ethos. It is a basic part of their warrior culture. Trust the westerners to make a minigame out of it without understanding the history of it. Made worse, of course, by Bugmaker copying the thing as well, giving rise to a situation where we have Codexians fawning over a JRPG mechanic.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Alright we're 9 pages in, said all we can about crafting. Let's talk about the true bane of gaming: Rafting. Have you ever played a game that made you gather parts for a raft and thought to yourself "I am having fun?" No. No you have not.

 

[user]

Alright we're 9 pages in, said all we can about crafting. Let's talk about the true bane of gaming: Rafting. Have you ever played a game that made you gather parts for a raft and thought to yourself "I am having fun?" No. No you have not.

Nonsense, ofc I have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEe-CE-VyfU

 

[111111111]

Crafting often has a slow progression in grinding until it finally becomes the preferred method of procuring weapons. Behavioral science shows that most humans trend toward things that give fast and quick reward for quick acheivments. This is why games like hearthstone and LoL become so popular.

Crafting is literally the direct opposite of that. You start out with forgettable shit until you grind the skill to the point it becomes OP. It's not suprising most people and even codexers will not care about such a mechanic.

 

[Chippy]

It just hasn't been done right yet.

What would "doing it right" look like? What would the challenge to overcome be? Describe the gameplay value of crafting "done right".

You gamist fucks can only think in terms of challenge and immediate fun. Crafting does not exist to challenge the player in any way, but to justify interactive worlds where every mundane item can serve a purpose, so the world can feel more real (a simulationist concern). Having metal scraps and animal hides being more than just vendor trash was the whole point of crafting in games like Arcanum and Morrowind, and it worked because their mechanics, ingredients and schematics said something about their respective worlds. This is also why it doesn't work in Oblivion and latter Bethesda games, having flora and fauna there just as an afterthought and magic effects exceedingly nerfed, crafting no longer made sense and became busywork.

Crafting by itself is shit, we can all agree, and especially when it's just a "mee-too" skill like in PoE, or when developers try to justify simulationist concepts from a gamist point of view, like D:OS with its "craft different meals for negligible combat boosts" minigame, completely missing the point of the baking bread mechanics from Ultima VII. But it can work when it's part of a whole instead of an encapsulated minigame.

You're talking to the Zombra poster right?.

 

[JarlFrank]

Crafting often has a slow progression in grinding until it finally becomes the preferred method of procuring weapons. Behavioral science shows that most humans trend toward things that give fast and quick reward for quick acheivments. This is why games like hearthstone and LoL become so popular.

Crafting is literally the direct opposite of that. You start out with forgettable shit until you grind the skill to the point it becomes OP. It's not suprising most people and even codexers will not care about such a mechanic.

Also, repetitive grind is shit in general.

 

[Zombra]

What would "doing it right" look like? What would the challenge to overcome be? Describe the gameplay value of crafting "done right".

You gamist fucks can only think in terms of challenge and immediate fun. Crafting does not exist to challenge the player in any way, but to justify interactive worlds where every mundane item can serve a purpose, so the world can feel more real (a simulationist concern).

"Kitchen sink" design is always crap, period. Try to throw in everything you can imagine and you end up with garbage like Watch_Dogs. Any system the purpose of which is to "justify" aimless, unfocused committee design is bad. Bad bad bad. You have failed to answer my question in a positive way.

 

[Maggot]

Prey might be the only AAA game so far where the crafting didn't bother me. I do think it broke the balance though with being able to craft neuromods. AoD's crafting was good and not an absolute slog to deal with as well.

 

[Devoidless]

It all depends on the type of crafting we're talking about here. Certain kinds I really love while others make me want to uninstall the game. I will not subject you all to lists of each with examples of games which have them. That would be boring and ain't nobody going to read them.

Now for the lists.

Types I Enjoy

• Socketing items (Diablo 2, PoE)
  
• Item transmutation (Diablo 2 via the Cube)
• Swapping out parts (KoToR)
• Crafting on the go (Morrowind)
• Weapon/armor modifications which visually change the item (New Vegas)
• Being able to make your own ammunition for ranged weapons (New Vegas)
• Monster Hunter

Literal Cancer

• Scrounging for 15 hours to make items which are needed to not only complete quests, but are actually a required mechanic (Witcher series)
  
• The kind in every MMO ever made (WoW)
• Find a crafting station in a town and mash the confirmation button to create 153 low quality items in 20 seconds for the same progression jumps as high quality gear (Skyrim)
• Monster Hunter

 

[frajaq]

Dragon Age 2 unironically had a decent crafting system, of all games.

The crafting resources worked as "nodes" that you had to discover while playing the game and questing/exploring around, but they were not used up. As long as you had the number of resources for the potion/rune/poison you wanted, and had the recipe, all you needed to worry about it was the cost in gold necessary to craft it.

You were still reward for exploring areas with resources but you didn't have like, 3 pieces of Orichalcum Ore or whatever stuck in your inventory that you don't know when you're gonna be able to use it

 

[eXalted]

Best crafting is in console games like Tomb Raider and Horizon Zero Dawn.

Simple, quick and part of the gameplay loop. Sorry but it's true.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Crafting in Kenshi is cool. Get the necessary items and then make actually good equipment like pants, armor, weapons - whatever you have the blueprints for. And your crafting skills go up very quickly so before you know it you're crafting High Grade items, able to outfit your whole squad with them. You can also craft things to sell, even though you can sell the armor and weapons for a pretty penny too, but you can craft stuff like Grog and Rum, and sell that for a big profit. And of course it has base-building so you can build up an automated system that makes you money or gets you good equipment to wear. And you can produce the raw materials yourself too, which is nice. So for leather armor you can make the leather from animal skins and either buy fabrics cheap or make them from cotton yourself, and even plant a cotton field to supply the cotton. It's very deep and you can get lost just in the crafting itself, but it's worthwhile so it makes it a good system.

As for most games I like crafting when it's done well.

 

[DalekFlay]

One of my main problems with crafting is it always feels overpowered. At least lately. Maybe that's because games are scared to be difficult now-a-days. They want to make crafted items feel "powerful" so they up the stats and whatnot and then you end up feeling like crafting is easy mode. Also I think it's more fun to find a cool item than to craft one. So the end result is I usually ignore crafting unless the game really forces it.

 

[anvi]

Crafting often has a slow progression in grinding until it finally becomes the preferred method of procuring weapons. Behavioral science shows that most humans trend toward things that give fast and quick reward for quick acheivments. This is why games like hearthstone and LoL become so popular.

Crafting is literally the direct opposite of that. You start out with forgettable shit until you grind the skill to the point it becomes OP. It's not suprising most people and even codexers will not care about such a mechanic.

Also, repetitive grind is shit in general.

Yet you still play old shit like Thief.

 

[fantadomat]

Crafting often has a slow progression in grinding until it finally becomes the preferred method of procuring weapons. Behavioral science shows that most humans trend toward things that give fast and quick reward for quick acheivments. This is why games like hearthstone and LoL become so popular.

Crafting is literally the direct opposite of that. You start out with forgettable shit until you grind the skill to the point it becomes OP. It's not suprising most people and even codexers will not care about such a mechanic.

Also, repetitive grind is shit in general.

Yet you still play old shit like Thief.

Didn't you left for good after being mocked for inhuman stupidity?

 

[Kutulu]

A leatherworker usually gets his hides from a tanner. A blacksmith from the mine or refinery.

I have no desire to pick up shit everywhere... especially since most complex crafting system have
often way to much shit to do, glasblowing the flasks for potions? Really? And my character can
do anything?

If a game was designed in a way where i could just send my slave to get me shit i might like it...

Really now, why cant i a man of many talents & the saviour of humanity convince someone to get me that leather and ore? Like really?....