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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

DraQ

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Personally I think that when it comes to intelligence there should be two kinds of cRPG protagoinsts: intelligent and dead
Luck is a completely valid replacement for intelligence.
Intelligence is how you play.
Luck is how your dick dice roll.
Neither needs in-game implementation.
:smug:
Plus, moron protagonist who just gets lucky all the time makes for shitty storytelling.
And that's one of the main problems with savescumming, actually
:troll:
 
Last edited:

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
lack of crit ranges and equipment weights are incline now?
wheres the kool aid fountain?
If the "lack of crit ranges" comes with not having to look at this:
dEU4erD.png
I'm fine with it.
:decline:
Reducing your weapons to a damage formula it's not a fucking incline.

Sure, with more grounded weapons should come more grounded quirks and modifiers rather than every other sword allowing you to breathe lightning and fart flames (and abominable number bloat has been :deadhorse: anyway), but having mechanically rich items (and everything else) is not only good, it's part of the only way a cRPG may possibly approach flexibility and reactivity of a PnP or even surpass it - by simulating everything with autistic levels of depth.
Expecting cRPG to be able to abstract shit away and only track it if its meaningful like live DM would is futile because for a piece of software that is cRPG "meaningful" is not meaningful itself.

So yes, give me a full page of crunchy mechanics (explicit or hidden and only indicated via flavour or common sense) per item and yes, this includes items having both weight AND size - beats "this is a gem-quality garnet, it takes one inventory slot; this is a flamberge, it takes one inventory slot; this is an M1A2 main battle tank, it takes one inventory slot..." lunacy.

Of course in this particular case (BG3 using DnD 5e rules) item description should be consistent with the system used, but there should still be quirks baked into it simulating what a good DM might or might not allow to do with that weapon.
Obviously I'm not against mechanically rich items, far from it. What I want are memorable magic items that will stick with me for more than 10 minutes (and with "stick with me" I mean both with the character and with me as a person). I still remember Varscona from BG1 and Crom Faeyr from BG2 (actually, I think I remember every single weapon in those two games), while I've already forgotten "Lohar's Two-Handed Source Hammer" and "Executor Ninyan's Axe". Having mechanically rich and interesting items doesn't mean that the game has to throw at me five of them at the end of each encounter.

As for inventory slots, I never find myself having fun managing inventories, unless that's a crucial gameplay element (like in Darkest Dungeon, where you have to balance supplies and rewards). Since usually it's just boring to me, I prefer to have nothing to do with it (something like what they did with PoE and Deadfire is what I would consider ideal, but I can see why someone wouldn't like that).
 

Ontopoly

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Oh here we go. Blah blah elven conspiracy blah everyone I disagree with is a magocrat. Get help you barbarian chuds.
Considering how long these "chads" whining about magic in RPG, image of brutal guy with sword slowly vanishing from my memory, replaced with ugly and envious weak moron, because self confident person would not act like that at all.
I think sometime ago it was all jokes, but some people don't know where to stop and recycle these jokes for ratings. In result this attitude looks like mental illness than just "one guy jokes".
Interestingly enough, while I had issues with some D&D classes and players, I had never thought badly about barbarians and barbarian players (except maybe intelligent barbarians in PoE, but that game has muscle wizards, so barbarians built from INT ain't big problem), but I guess some people just want their reputation spoiled.

ERYFKRAD If your feud started when wizard player taken your beloved chocolate bar from stand in mall before you or something - just let it go. Seriously right now you hurt yourself more than "pesky wizards" by recycling shit that once was a funny joke and now just boring as hell.
This is applicable to all people here, including people who trying to look as "good fella" and grind rating and people who enable such behaviour with ratings.
You sound like an Elven degenerate scum.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Oh here we go. Blah blah elven conspiracy blah everyone I disagree with is a magocrat. Get help you barbarian chuds.
Considering how long these "chads" whining about magic in RPG, image of brutal guy with sword slowly vanishing from my memory, replaced with ugly and envious weak moron, because self confident person would not act like that at all.
I think sometime ago it was all jokes, but some people don't know where to stop and recycle these jokes for ratings. In result this attitude looks like mental illness than just "one guy jokes".
Interestingly enough, while I had issues with some D&D classes and players, I had never thought badly about barbarians and barbarian players (except maybe intelligent barbarians in PoE, but that game has muscle wizards, so barbarians built from INT ain't big problem), but I guess some people just want their reputation spoiled.

ERYFKRAD If your feud started when wizard player taken your beloved chocolate bar from stand in mall before you or something - just let it go. Seriously right now you hurt yourself more than "pesky wizards" by recycling shit that once was a funny joke and now just boring as hell.
This is applicable to all people here, including people who trying to look as "good fella" and grind rating and people who enable such behaviour with ratings.
You sound like an Elven degenerate scum.
Wtf I like Ontopoly now.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Oh here we go. Blah blah elven conspiracy blah everyone I disagree with is a magocrat. Get help you barbarian chuds.
Oh here we go. Blah blah elven conspiracy blah everyone I disagree with is a magocrat. Get help you barbarian chuds.
Considering how long these "chads" whining about magic in RPG, image of brutal guy with sword slowly vanishing from my memory, replaced with ugly and envious weak moron, because self confident person would not act like that at all.
I think sometime ago it was all jokes, but some people don't know where to stop and recycle these jokes for ratings. In result this attitude looks like mental illness than just "one guy jokes".
Interestingly enough, while I had issues with some D&D classes and players, I had never thought badly about barbarians and barbarian players (except maybe intelligent barbarians in PoE, but that game has muscle wizards, so barbarians built from INT ain't big problem), but I guess some people just want their reputation spoiled.

ERYFKRAD If your feud started when wizard player taken your beloved chocolate bar from stand in mall before you or something - just let it go. Seriously right now you hurt yourself more than "pesky wizards" by recycling shit that once was a funny joke and now just boring as hell.
This is applicable to all people here, including people who trying to look as "good fella" and grind rating and people who enable such behaviour with ratings.
I am very honestly not worth this effort dude.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Casters get better the more rests the group can take. 5e makes resting rather easy and usually leads to only 1-2 encounters per day. The (((elven))) magic supremacy is still very much alive. But if BG3 has a more restricitive resting system the martials will keep up or eclipse the mages.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Casters get better the more rests the group can take. 5e makes resting rather easy and usually leads to only 1-2 encounters per day. The (((elven))) magic supremacy is still very much alive. But if BG3 has a more restricitive resting system the martials will keep up or eclipse the mages.
In D&D 5 I'm more used to 6-8 encounters per day, with a short rest after every 2 or 3 of them.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Casters get better the more rests the group can take. 5e makes resting rather easy and usually leads to only 1-2 encounters per day. The (((elven))) magic supremacy is still very much alive. But if BG3 has a more restricitive resting system the martials will keep up or eclipse the mages.
In D&D 5 I'm more used to 6-8 encounters per day, with a short rest after every 2 or 3 of them.

Man how many sessions do you need to finish a day then? Combat can take 30mins to 1h depending on how many normies the group has. If you keep a healthy balance of roleplaying, exploration and combat that amounts to less than a long rest per play session.
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Casters get better the more rests the group can take. 5e makes resting rather easy and usually leads to only 1-2 encounters per day. The (((elven))) magic supremacy is still very much alive. But if BG3 has a more restricitive resting system the martials will keep up or eclipse the mages.
In D&D 5 I'm more used to 6-8 encounters per day, with a short rest after every 2 or 3 of them.

Man how many sessions do you need to finish a day then? Combat can take 30mins to 1h depending on how many normies the group has. If you keep a healthy balance of roleplaying, exploration and combat that amounts to less than a long rest per play session.
Maybe me and my friends are the biggest nerds on the planet, but encounters rarely last more than 20 minutes and only against bosses they reach the 1 hour mark. Normal encounters usually require less than 2 full rounds, while challenging ones require between 2 and 3 rounds. "Boss" encounters can go up to 10 rounds (or even longer for very important/difficult bosses). With a pace of 2 minutes per turn (it's a group of 4 people), that's around 12 minutes for a normal encounter, 20 for a challenging one and up to 1.5 hours for a boss, but obviously there are in-between cases (usually each session has a 40 minutes mini-boss).

In the end, that's around 2 to 2.5 hours of combat in a 5-6 hours session. There are exceptions: we can have the occasional combat-focused session with two extremely big boss battles and nothing else, but that's the exception, not the general rule.

Clearly, this is possible only if everyone at the table knows his character extremely well and is able to react quickly to situations.
 

Grunker

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Monks are in a weird place in 5e, they hold up relatively well until level 7, then they completely fall behind. In general one of the weaker classes.
They're still decent if they Stunning Strike on the regular. It's probably the best way to burn through Legendary Resistances, too.
Monks and Rangers are probably the weakest classes though.

But at that level legendary resistance start to show up, and DnD has so high damage that it is very rarely a good idea to burn through them. Just kill the boss and be done with it.

As a rough tier list i would say:

Tier 1: Wizard, Cleric, Druid*, Fighter*, Bard, Paladin
Tier 2: Warlock, Sorcerer, Druid, Fighter, Rogue
Tier 3: Barbarian, Ranger, Monk

* Moon Druid and abusing Variant Human on Fighters puts them in T1. Otherwise T2

Ironically the entire T3 suffers the most from the bonus action rule change. Maybe Ranger the least as he needs his bonus action only once for Hunters Mark. I hope that rule doesnt survive the EA.

You need 4 tiers - can't put barb with ranger and monk :P
 

Elex

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Barbarian can even be tier-1.
Their point is baiting enemy in hitting them.
They use reckless attack, to get advantage with attacks, but the enemy also get advantage.
Barbarian in rage take half damage (from all phisical damage even magical weapons or a divine creature).

The barbarian don’t really care for stacking AC but want more HP as possible.

if the enemy ignore the barbarian he is free of focus any target , if the enemy focus the barbariarian because he is easy to hit they hit the tankiest in the party.

So a lot of “how good is the barbararian?” Depend on the AI.
 

NJClaw

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You still talk about shit that have nothing to do with DOS3,i take it.
Lol at this eternal butthurt "intellectual" bulgarian gypsy spam rating my posts.

BG III will be a commercial and critical success, deal with it you ottoman rape child.
BG 3 will be so commercially successful that Larian will have enough money to make a BG 4 with voice acting even for unwritten lines. Even the menu will have full voice over.
 

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
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You still talk about shit that have nothing to do with DOS3,i take it.
Lol at this eternal butthurt "intellectual" bulgarian gypsy spam rating my posts.

BG III will be a commercial and critical success, deal with it you ottoman rape child.
BG 3 will be so commercially successful that Larian will have enough money to make a BG 4 with voice acting even for unwritten lines. Even the menu will have full voice over.
They'll degenerate so much until they won't even have unspoken lines. You'll get Skyrim where its just people talking with the occasional books written by who ever they could find on the team to spare 10 minutes. Probably the intern.
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
You still talk about shit that have nothing to do with DOS3,i take it.
Lol at this eternal butthurt "intellectual" bulgarian gypsy spam rating my posts.

BG III will be a commercial and critical success, deal with it you ottoman rape child.
BG 3 will be so commercially successful that Larian will have enough money to make a BG 4 with voice acting even for unwritten lines. Even the menu will have full voice over.
They'll degenerate so much until they won't even have unspoken lines. You'll get Skyrim where its just people talking with the occasional books written by who ever they could find on the team to spare 10 minutes. Probably the intern.
Wait... they don't need to degenerate to reach that level: D:OS 1 and 2 already have voice acting for every single line of dialogue and narration description. They even have voice acting for animal sounds. Or do you mean that they will actually remove written lines? That would be quite metal.

On the "Skyrim books" topic there's an amazing video on the Polygon Youtube channel:

I know it's Polygon, but Brian David Gilbert's sketches are 10/10.
 

Elex

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Even the menu will have full voice over.
*Meanwhile at larian zoom video conference*
“Yes, we should add menu with full voice over”
“We can add the full voiceover for journal too??”
“Yes!!”
 

DraQ

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Obviously I'm not against mechanically rich items, far from it. What I want are memorable magic items that will stick with me for more than 10 minutes (and with "stick with me" I mean both with the character and with me as a person).
That's the function of rarity and longevity (so basically lack of item treadmill), not number of modifiers to item's name.

I still remember Varscona from BG1 and Crom Faeyr from BG2 (actually, I think I remember every single weapon in those two games), while I've already forgotten "Lohar's Two-Handed Source Hammer" and "Executor Ninyan's Axe".
Because magical items in BGs were rare. Varscona was pretty lame and boring weapon mechanically, actually, it's just that it was the only sword with cold damage in addition to its +2 modifiers and the fact that it fell out of a unique encounter that made it memorable.

If anything a comparably rare item that may stay with the character for comparable amount of time and also falls out of a memorable encounter is going to be far more memorable and interesting if it has crunch to match.

Actually, even randomized item you find randomly may become memorable if it's rare and serves you well for a long time.

As for inventory slots, I never find myself having fun managing inventories, unless that's a crucial gameplay element (like in Darkest Dungeon, where you have to balance supplies and rewards). Since usually it's just boring to me, I prefer to have nothing to do with it (something like what they did with PoE and Deadfire is what I would consider ideal, but I can see why someone wouldn't like that).
I will share a secret with you:
Constrained inventory is small inventory, small inventory is the one you have to manage less because you cannot afford hoovering up all the random crap you find in the first place.
 

Scarlet Lilith

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As for inventory slots, I never find myself having fun managing inventories, unless that's a crucial gameplay element (like in Darkest Dungeon, where you have to balance supplies and rewards). Since usually it's just boring to me, I prefer to have nothing to do with it (something like what they did with PoE and Deadfire is what I would consider ideal, but I can see why someone wouldn't like that).
Inventory Tetris is core RPG gameplay! It was pretty lacking in the previous BG games, but it was fine since it was so small and you only had to decide on what to carry with you, that makes it interesting since you have to make choices and from what I've heard RPGs are all about them. I do prefer inventories where one arrow doesn't occupy the same space as an entire set of armor though, that's super dumb.
 

Lawntoilet

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As for inventory slots, I never find myself having fun managing inventories, unless that's a crucial gameplay element (like in Darkest Dungeon, where you have to balance supplies and rewards). Since usually it's just boring to me, I prefer to have nothing to do with it (something like what they did with PoE and Deadfire is what I would consider ideal, but I can see why someone wouldn't like that).
Inventory Tetris is core RPG gameplay! It was pretty lacking in the previous BG games, but it was fine since it was so small and you only had to decide on what to carry with you, that makes it interesting since you have to make choices and from what I've heard RPGs are all about them. I do prefer inventories where one arrow doesn't occupy the same space as an entire set of armor though, that's super dumb.
Arcanum inventory (and pickpocketing) is the best I can think of off the top of my head.
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Obviously I'm not against mechanically rich items, far from it. What I want are memorable magic items that will stick with me for more than 10 minutes (and with "stick with me" I mean both with the character and with me as a person).
That's the function of rarity and longevity (so basically lack of item treadmill), not number of modifiers to item's name.
Yes, but usually when a game has items with a semi-random number of properties selected by a finite set, it also has too many items (at least in my limited experience), so both rarity and longevity go straight into the trash. Right now the clearest examples I can think of are D:OS 1 and 2 and Nioh. Is there an example of a game that does this kind of items in a good way?

Because magical items in BGs were rare. Varscona was pretty lame and boring weapon mechanically, actually, it's just that it was the only sword with cold damage in addition to its +2 modifiers and the fact that it fell out of a unique encounter that made it memorable.
I agree, but, ironically, that Lohar's Two-Handed Source Hammer also is pretty lame and boring, because most of its bonuses are just "+5%" damage spelled in different ways.

I will share a secret with you:
Constrained inventory is small inventory, small inventory is the one you have to manage less because you cannot afford hoovering up all the random crap you find in the first place.
Can you make an example of a recent game where the equation "weight limit = constrained inventory = less management" is actually true? Because D:OS 1 and 2 are two great examples of the exact opposite: there's a weight limit, but almost everything has a negligible weight and you find yourself carrying endless amounts of items all the time. The only meaningful effect of that limit is to stop the player from carrying too many barrels. In the end, the moment you reach the limit, you just have to teleport to a vendor, sell some stuff, go back to where you left off and keep playing as if nothing happened. That's just a minor inconvenience that adds nothing to the game and it's not fun.

Ideally, I would love a game with an extremely small inventory that forces you to make choices on what to carry around. However, seeing D:OS 1 and 2, I don't think that's the kind of game Larian is going for.
 

gurugeorge

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Strap Yourselves In
Ideally, I would love a game with an extremely small inventory that forces you to make choices on what to carry around.

Stoneshard has a beautifully constrained inventory system, where you have a fairly small inventory, and the junk comes at just the right rate to make regularly adjusting inventory and making decisions about what to throw away and keep a piece of meaningful gameplay, but you're not overwhelmed (the icons for stuff are also beautifully designed and painted too, which makes it a cozy feeling to play with the inventory).

The other option that's tolerable if the game MUST throw loads of crap at you, is to have a huge inventory with tabs and/or several kinds of auto-sort into categories. That way you forego the pondering, and the moving of subjectively precious things around, and you lose out on that gameplay aspect to some extent, but it's ok because it's conveniently set up. The downside of that system though, I always feel, is that it doesn't feel like an inventory that you're lugging around, but like a magic meta bag with no connection to the virtual world.

I was just playing NWN2 recently, and that has the worst of both worlds - a fairly generous inventory, but loads of junk and no useful or intelligent auto-sort options (just one).
 

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