Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[IHaveHugeNick]

I haven't read the books, and the scene felt quite strong enough to me. Also, didn't CDPR develop some of the characters as much if not more than the author ever did?

They certainly fleshed them out a bit , but author has an uncanny ability where he only needs a few lines to create characters that are lively and memorable. But yeah, there plenty of good quests with new characters that don't exist in the books.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Why not? Because an isometric game is inherently at a disadvantage when portraying dramatic scenes and using a serious tone in its writing or when it has to develop complex nuanced characters?

Yes.

I already made this point and a number of people told me this wasn't so.

So they made you change your mind?

No, they didn't. I just wanted to nail my point.

 

[Puteo]

DOS1 and DOS2 are utter shit. Shows that "turn-based" doesn't automatically guarantee anything good.

Doesn't matter, they rule the casual kingdom while Owlcat rules the grognard grotto, leaving Obsidian and inXile as has-beens without a home (Harebrained [perhaps wisely] abandoned this triple-i space for turn-based "tactical" pastures).

Anyone remember the good old days when codex said that Turn-based was dead because it only appealed to old grognards and that we should just shut-up and join the POE kickstarter because it's the only incline we're going to get?

Fun times.

 

[Roguey]

Anyone remember the good old days when codex said that Turn-based was dead because it only appealed to old grognards and that we should just shut-up and join the POE kickstarter because it's the only incline we're going to get?

Fun times.

? Project Eternity happened after Wasteland 2 (and Shadowrun).

 

[Puteo]

Anyone remember the good old days when codex said that Turn-based was dead because it only appealed to old grognards and that we should just shut-up and join the POE kickstarter because it's the only incline we're going to get?

Fun times.

? Project Eternity happened after Wasteland 2 (and Shadowrun).

The fact that they were beloved franchises was the excuse given for them getting any funding, Pillars getting nearly double the funding while being a no-name franchise was cited as further proof that people liked RTwP better.

 

[aweigh]

Wasteland and Shadowrun "beloeved"? By who? Literally no one knows about this except us incels.

 

[Roguey]

The fact that they were beloved franchises was the excuse given for them getting any funding, Pillars getting nearly double the funding while being a no-name franchise was cited as further proof that people liked RTwP better.

? Fargo rode Fallout hard, Pillars may have been OC but it was also riding BG hard.

Most folks here were really giddy about turn-based winning the Torment poll.

 

[Quillon]

turn-based winning the Torment poll.

Didn't RTwP win but they made it turn-based anyway?

 

[Fairfax]

turn-based winning the Torment poll.

Didn't RTwP win but they made it turn-based anyway?

No. They said it was "technically tied", so they went with turn-based because it was the option they endorsed.

 

[Quillon]

turn-based winning the Torment poll.

Didn't RTwP win but they made it turn-based anyway?

No. They said it was "technically tied", so they went with turn-based because it was the option they endorsed.

But factually RTwP won the poll, right?

 

[2house2fly]

No. They said it was "technically tied", so they went with turn-based because it was the option they endorsed.

I recall some controversy because they weighted the poll descriptions in favour of TB or something. Like

RTWP PROS:
It's OK I guess

RTWP CONS:
It kind of sucks

TURN BASED PROS:
It's really good

TURN BASED CONS:
None

If they wanted to make a turn based game they should have just made a turn based game instead of all this fif-faffing

 

[Fairfax]

turn-based winning the Torment poll.

Didn't RTwP win but they made it turn-based anyway?

No. They said it was "technically tied", so they went with turn-based because it was the option they endorsed.

But factually RTwP won the poll, right?

No, final result was:

7,267 TB, 7,052 RTwP and 782 Indifferent.

No. They said it was "technically tied", so they went with turn-based because it was the option they endorsed.

I recall some controversy because they weighted the poll descriptions in favour of TB or something. Like

RTWP PROS:
It's OK I guess

RTWP CONS:
It kind of sucks

TURN BASED PROS:
It's really good

TURN BASED CONS:
None

If they wanted to make a turn based game they should have just made a turn based game instead of all this fif-faffing

Yes. These were the descriptions at first:

It was pretty close and going back and forth, then they changed the descriptions:

Brother None said he was responsible for the poll and never changed it (a lie, as one can see above).

He also said it was a great for PR and "just a head count":

 

[Whisper]

IMO Deadfire failed by marketing first and foremost, not much to do with the game's qualities.

It failed to be a good game.

Of cause you can make sales from crap games, Dragon age 2 or 3 is best example of it, but you need mass marketing and buying game "journalists".

 

[fantadomat]

IMO Deadfire failed by marketing first and foremost, not much to do with the game's qualities.

It failed to be a good game.

Of cause you can make sales from crap games, Dragon age 2 or 3 is best example of it, but you need mass marketing and buying game "journalists".

Or a good first game,DA scams sold well because the first one is good and a lot of casual people loved it.

 

[Grunker]

If Owlcat can produce something so great on their first try, it’s extra disappointing that Obsidian—a studio I love—somehow dropped the ball not once, but twice.

Obsidian's adventures in the Forgotten Realms and the 3.5 ruleset gave us NWN2 and Storm of Zehir, so that ball was dropped more than twice.

also gave us motb tho

 

[Lacrymas]

It's funny to think Obs only twice haven't dropped the ball. Maybe we were too ensorcelled by MotB and KotOR2 to notice this.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It's funny to think Obs only twice haven't dropped the ball. Maybe we were too ensorcelled by MotB and KotOR2 to notice this.

Obsidian got the benefit of the doubt because even when they failed, they used to do so in interesting ways and it was easy to see how their games could’ve been excellent. Alpha Protocol has awful gameplay, but you can see how it could’ve been quality popamole if they’d hired some designers who knew how to make a shooter. New Vegas would be unspeakably great in another engine. NWN OC had some redeeming qualities, although reasonable people differ as to what they are. Tyranny’s first act would’ve made a great demo.

POE and Deadfire are different. They have the right format and they’re not bad, but they’re flatly mediocre. Nothing about them is so great that it makes their flaws easier to forgive. I mean, Obsidian dropped the ball with KOTOR2, too, but there was enough amazing stuff in there that modders spent ten years fixing it. Better to release broken and remarkable games than bland mediocrities.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Obsidian got the benefit of the doubt because even when they failed, they used to do so in interesting ways and it was easy to see how their games could’ve been excellent. Alpha Protocol has awful gameplay, but you can see how it could’ve been quality popamole if they’d hired some designers who knew how to make a shooter. New Vegas would be unspeakably great in another engine. NWN OC had some redeeming qualities, although reasonable people differ as to what they are. Tyranny’s first act would’ve made a great demo.

POE and Deadfire are different. They have the right format and they’re not bad, but they’re flatly mediocre. Nothing about them is so great that it makes their flaws easier to forgive. I mean, Obsidian dropped the ball with KOTOR2, too, but there was enough amazing stuff in there that modders spent ten years fixing it. Better to release broken and remarkable games than bland mediocrities.

You know, I think this is what did it for me in the end regarding Obsidian. PoE was just mediocre. And that was supposed to be them at their best.

We know the truth now though. They did it because they had to.

 

[TemplarGR]

Or a good first game,DA scams sold well because the first one is good and a lot of casual people loved it.

Oh God, there are still people in 2018 who actually believe Dragon Age Origins was good... How old were you in 2009, 12?

 

[TemplarGR]

Obsidian got the benefit of the doubt because even when they failed, they used to do so in interesting ways and it was easy to see how their games could’ve been excellent. Alpha Protocol has awful gameplay, but you can see how it could’ve been quality popamole if they’d hired some designers who knew how to make a shooter. New Vegas would be unspeakably great in another engine. NWN OC had some redeeming qualities, although reasonable people differ as to what they are. Tyranny’s first act would’ve made a great demo.

POE and Deadfire are different. They have the right format and they’re not bad, but they’re flatly mediocre. Nothing about them is so great that it makes their flaws easier to forgive. I mean, Obsidian dropped the ball with KOTOR2, too, but there was enough amazing stuff in there that modders spent ten years fixing it. Better to release broken and remarkable games than bland mediocrities.

The biggest sin Obsidian commited with PoE, was attempting to create their own gameplay system instead of licencing DnD (any edition). Creating PnP gameplay systems from scratch is no fucking joke, and takes decades of experience to perfect. Attempting to do so while designing and coding a freaking video game based upon it is completely retarded. They were attempting to make a more video-gamey DnD system that resembled DnD but didn't have to pay royalties and failed miserably. In the end they just produced a DnD look-alike.

This was bad because a lot of writting, deleting, and writting again, took place while developing PoE (and even after release) and it showed. They wasted a lot of time and crowdfunding dollars on chasing a pipe dream instead of just licencing DnD (even 2nd edition would do fine) and focusing on making a better game.

Also, by licencing DnD, they would have enjoyed better marketing and recognition plus the game would be more accessible because DnD was more well known, while PoE's system had to be learned from scratch, only to realize that it was essentially "dnd but not dnd".

 

[flyingjohn]

The biggest sin Obsidian commited with PoE, was attempting to create their own gameplay system instead of licencing DnD (any edition). Creating PnP gameplay systems from scratch is no fucking joke, and takes decades of experience to perfect. Attempting to do so while designing and coding a freaking video game based upon it is completely retarded. They were attempting to make a more video-gamey DnD system that resembled DnD but didn't have to pay royalties and failed miserably. In the end they just produced a DnD look-alike.
.

All that would do is give you a neutered "balanced" dnd system that would be even more boring to play then poe current system.Remember Sawyer hated the "unbalanced" dnd system and there is no way you could get him to just stick to the original system without modifications.

 

[Lacrymas]

PoE's system has potential, the problem is encounter design, AI and a lot of abilities/spells being useless, forcing you to recycle the same tactic every time. Every party member playing like a MOBA character doesn't help. D&D has other problems.

 

[Grunker]

Are you talking in general or in #2? Because in White March I think the encounter design is downright stellar. Some of the best of any RPG ever, in fact.

I Deadfire, I have found it lacking, even if I don't think it's a universal problem (like you seem to do?). Just one example of a well-designed encounter is the swamp with four different druids of different seasons. I had to switch up tactics for that one.

 

[Parabalus]

Are you talking in general or in #2? Because in White March I think the encounter design is downright stellar. Some of the best of any RPG ever, in fact.

I Deadfire, I have found it lacking, even if I don't think it's a universal problem (like you seem to do?). Just one example of a well-designed encounter is the swamp with four different druids of different seasons. I had to switch up tactics for that one.

I liked PoE, Dumpsterfire, and WM but calling it "some of the best of any RPG, ever" is a bit much.

 

[TemplarGR]

All that would do is give you a neutered "balanced" dnd system that would be even more boring to play then poe current system.Remember Sawyer hated the "unbalanced" dnd system and there is no way you could get him to just stick to the original system without modifications.

Yes. But they wouldn't waste so much time and effort on it. And they wouldn't disturb the balance of the game while it was out in the stores so much until they get it "balanced".

The thing is, Obsidian with PoE pulled a "Temple of Elemental Evil": They were so concerned with the battle system that the rest of the game was worse for it.