Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[fobia]

The biggest sin Obsidian commited with PoE, was attempting to create their own gameplay system instead of licencing DnD (any edition). Creating PnP gameplay systems from scratch is no fucking joke, and takes decades of experience to perfect. Attempting to do so while designing and coding a freaking video game based upon it is completely retarded. They were attempting to make a more video-gamey DnD system that resembled DnD but didn't have to pay royalties and failed miserably. In the end they just produced a DnD look-alike.
.

All that would do is give you a neutered "balanced" dnd system that would be even more boring to play then poe current system.Remember Sawyer hated the "unbalanced" dnd system and there is no way you could get him to just stick to the original system without modifications.

So what? D&D has flaws. Pathfinder has flaws. There's no merit in adhering to a system when there's room for improvement. Also what original system without modifications? AD&D, 3e, 3.5, Pathfinder? 5e even? There is no standard system without modifications that is inherently good for CRPGs.

The whole "BALANCED" shtick was all fun and daisies. But now everyone and their hamster thinks they're contributing to a discussion about mechanics as long as they call out PoE's "balance". Say something about the system and it's flaws or merits relative to a system you approve of. Otherwise you might just as well say nothing.

Also, Sawyer didn't and doesn't "hate the unbalanced D&D system". He has pointed out the merits of 4e a couple of times. An edition that was criticized by many PnP players for being too much of a combat simulator. Might be a good choice for a CRPG after all.

After 3 years, I really think it's time to move away from criticizing a game, that was (portrayed as) the last straw for a struggling company and had a limited KS budget for failing to buy a D&D license. Standard Faerun might've had more appeal than Eora's lore, but mechanically D&D is as good or bad as the team who implements it.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

The 90’s was a really long time ago! I think a lot of fans that helped support the original Pillars of Eternity died from old age in the mean time so couldn’t buy Deadfire (thanks so much if you were one of them for helping make Eora you’re so cool o7)!

Remember everyone exercise and sports are really important!

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

After 3 years, I really think it's time to move away from criticizing a game, that was (portrayed as) the last straw for a struggling company and had a limited KS budget for failing to buy a D&D license. Standard Faerun might've had more appeal than Eora's lore, but mechanically D&D is as good or bad as the team who implements it.

You don’t need to buy a license! The OGL is FREE. Realms Beyond is using D&D 3.5 and they’re not paying WoTC a penny for it. It would have been both cheaper and less time consuming to just use the 3.5 open gaming license, something Obsidian was already familiar with.

 

[Grunker]

Are you talking in general or in #2? Because in White March I think the encounter design is downright stellar. Some of the best of any RPG ever, in fact.

I Deadfire, I have found it lacking, even if I don't think it's a universal problem (like you seem to do?). Just one example of a well-designed encounter is the swamp with four different druids of different seasons. I had to switch up tactics for that one.

I liked PoE, Dumpsterfire, and WM but calling it "some of the best of any RPG, ever" is a bit much.

It is. Xaurip fights in the mines, the giant Vithrack battle with vaulting berserkers, some Laufageth fights, the white dragon, Magran fanatics etc. These are fights I rate as high as some of the best I've ever played. Concelhaut would probably be on there if it was harder. It's obvious that a ton of work was put into the scripting of that fight, it's just too easy.

 

[TemplarGR]

You don’t need to buy a license! The OGL is FREE. Realms Beyond is using D&D 3.5 and they’re not paying WoTC a penny for it. It would have been both cheaper and less time consuming to just use the 3.5 open gaming license, something Obsidian was already familiar with.

Obsidian was going for the big bucks: Their sinister plan was to create a new pnp system and eventually displace dnd...

By the way Bioware attempted exactly the same, that is why they got out of using DnD for their games. Of course they spectacularly failed but initially that was their thinking. Why pay for a licence while you can make your own system and eventually even licence it yourself?

We only managed to avoid this sad fate because Dragon Age was shit.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Are you talking in general or in #2? Because in White March I think the encounter design is downright stellar. Some of the best of any RPG ever, in fact.

I Deadfire, I have found it lacking, even if I don't think it's a universal problem (like you seem to do?). Just one example of a well-designed encounter is the swamp with four different druids of different seasons. I had to switch up tactics for that one.

I liked PoE, Dumpsterfire, and WM but calling it "some of the best of any RPG, ever" is a bit much.

It is. Xaurip fights in the mines, the giant Vithrack battle with vaulting berserkers, some Laufageth fights, the white dragon, Magran fanatics etc. These are fights I rate as high as some of the best I've ever played. Concelhaut would probably be on there if it was harder. It's obvious that a ton of work was put into the scripting of that fight, it's just too easy.

I agree the encounter design in White March 1 & 2 is a major improvement, but there’s still plenty of trash. For example, the ice elemental fights out in the snow are a boring slog.

 

[Lacrymas]

Are you talking in general or in #2?

In general. Yeah, some fights are ok, but 90% of them aren't, maybe even more, the only good fight in the base game is Raedric at the beginning. Everything else is various assortments of trash mobs and the Adra Dragon being bullshit. That includes WM too, only some of the major fights are fine in theory, in practice you are way too overpowered for it to matter.

 

[Roguey]

You don’t need to buy a license! The OGL is FREE. Realms Beyond is using D&D 3.5 and they’re not paying WoTC a penny for it. It would have been both cheaper and less time consuming to just use the 3.5 open gaming license, something Obsidian was already familiar with.

Josh was concerned Wizards were going to shut them down anyway because they have C&Ded internet character creators. https://techraptor.net/content/wotc-shuts-online-character-generators

Small guys like Pierre and HobGob are possibly off their radar, Obsidian wouldn't be.

 

[Brancaleone]

As for the world DA world building is better than PoE anyway. It actually has a mystery towards which the plot is building.

I wonder who was the fucking genius who thought pulling a "the Force comes from midi-chlorians" on the origins of the gods as the main hook of PoE1 was a great idea. It torpedoes the necessary mystery about them (contrast with the Black City, at least in DA:O, don't know about the sequels), and doesn't functionally change anything about them.

 

[Fairfax]

You don’t need to buy a license! The OGL is FREE. Realms Beyond is using D&D 3.5 and they’re not paying WoTC a penny for it. It would have been both cheaper and less time consuming to just use the 3.5 open gaming license, something Obsidian was already familiar with.

Josh was concerned Wizards were going to shut them down anyway because they have C&Ded internet character creators. https://techraptor.net/content/wotc-shuts-online-character-generators

Small guys like Pierre and HobGob are possibly off their radar, Obsidian wouldn't be.

That had nothing to do with the OGL or 3.5E, though. The generator was using copyrighted 5E content, and 5E didn't have anything released under the OGL until 2016.

 

[Mightmagic]

Or a good first game,DA scams sold well because the first one is good and a lot of casual people loved it.

Oh God, there are still people in 2018 who actually believe Dragon Age Origins was good... How old were you in 2009, 12?

DAO wasn't a bad game and I had 29 years old in 2009.

DAO is not a very good game like BG but in comaprison with mass effect, DA 2, DA3, jade empire or NWN1, it was a good game.

 

[Mightmagic]

I would not call SoZ od NWN2 bad games either. In fact, SOZ is fantastic for what it is. NWN2 is terrible because of the mechanics and encounter design. Otherwise, the story is quite a delightful adventure in FR.

I don't understand why NWN 2 is seen like a bad game. I love nwn2 and fror me, it was the BG3 that I have hoped.

If all rpg games was as bad than NWN2, I would be very happy. It would be the greatest incline.

 

[TemplarGR]

DAO wasn't a bad game and I had 29 years old in 2009.

DAO is not a very good game like BG but in comaprison with mass effect, DA 2, DA3, jade empire or NWN1, it was a good game.

Every single game on your list except Inquisition and jade empire is better than DAO. I mean seriously, you dare claim that DAO was better than Mass Effect? Mass Effect was leaps and bounds better in Graphics, Music, Voice Acting, Characters, Story, Game World, Game play. Yes it was not a CRPG but more of a cover based TPS with RPG elements, but still it was a far more enjoyable game to play than the abomination that was called DAO with the huge HP sponge trash mobs, the boring combat, the dumbed down rpg system, the ridiculous cookie-cutter story, and the trash controls. I hated every minute of Dragon Age Origins, could predict the plot from 20-30 minutes in, and cringed every time i had to face a random encounter. DAO was so shit, it redefined what shit means for RPGs...

Even waifus sucked for DAO.

 

[TemplarGR]

I don't understand why NWN 2 is seen like a bad game. I love nwn2 and fror me, it was the BG3 that I have hoped.

If all rpg games was as bad than NWN2, I would be very happy. It would be the greatest incline.

It was a good game, but most people didn't have a proper computer to play it at the time and it was terribly unoptimized and buggy.

Oftentimes you witness this in PC gaming, games are considered shit just because only a 5% of the PC market can actually do them justice. I can list tons of games that were considered "failures" just because the cool kids' mom couldn't buy them a better pc to play them on.

 

[fantadomat]

Or a good first game,DA scams sold well because the first one is good and a lot of casual people loved it.

Oh God, there are still people in 2018 who actually believe Dragon Age Origins was good... How old were you in 2009, 12?

A manchild that still plays kid's games should know its place!

 

[Rake]

DAO was so shit, it redefined what shit means for RPGs...

No, that was Skyrim

 

[AwesomeButton]

Origins had its good parts. As long as you didn't care about the combat, and weren't thoroughly bored by Tolkien-derivative fantasy.

 

[TemplarGR]

A manchild that still plays kid's games should know its place!

The last time i played Super Mario Bros 3 seriously (outside of just the first level at an emulator for nostalgia sake) was 23 years ago... Poorly constructed ad hominems won't save you...

People should stop judging others by what they use as their profile picture. I picked SMB3 frontcover because it was my most coveted NES game as a kid and thought it was unique. No one else has the fucking HUGE BALLS it takes to put a "kiddy" profile picture on a board full of edgy teenagers like rpgcodex...

By the way, ask a psychologist about the fear of appearing childish. This is a fear shared by young people who want to appear "adult" and "mature" before their time. Most true mature and adult people have no such insecurities. Once you grow up, kid, you will understand. And you won't give a fuck what random morons in a forum think about your profile picture

 

[Quillon]

And you won't give a fuck what random morons in a forum think about your profile picture

And this is you not giving a fuck?

 

[TemplarGR]

No, that was Skyrim

Skyrim was a freaking masterpiece. People still make content for it, mods and videos, people still play it today by the hundrend thousands every day... DAO is forgotten, no one gives a flying fuck about it today. No one.

Origins had its good parts. As long as you didn't care about the combat, and weren't thoroughly bored by Tolkien-derivative fantasy.

It is very hard to not care about the combat in a game that 80% of the playtime is the grindy combat with random meat sponges.

And in order to enjoy the story you must have never watched Lord of the Rings trilogy which DAO effectively ripped off (undergrownd orc army invades, ugly fellow with dark eyes betrays us, etc) and never play any other fantasy rpg...

Even then, it was mostly mediocre. If it didn't have nice graphics and production values and it wasn't made by Bioware, it would have been forgotten by now. Actually, it IS forgotten. No one talks about it unless for history reference reasons.

 

[The Avatar]

NWN2 was pretty bad. Mostly in it's production values. It looks like it was made by people who had just graduated from a game degree factory college. The environments are simple and very small. The voice acting is dry and monotone. The cutscenes are un-animated and boring. The only good thing about it was the mechanics that would allow hundreds of different ways to build your character. And multiplayer too, I suppose.

Compare that to DA:O which was an actual AAA game and had professional voice actors and motion-captured cutscenes.

I do want to cut NWN2 some slack there because it came out 3 years earlier, but even for the time it wasn't that great.

 

[TemplarGR]

And this is you not giving a fuck?

I am not. I don't care what he thinks. I just thought i had to reply to him, display to everyone how retarded he is for making such poor ad hominems instead of real arguments. Just for the lulz.

 

[Sykar]

Skytard is horshite, just slightly less shite than Obliviturd.

 

[AwesomeButton]

And in order to enjoy the story you must have never watched Lord of the Rings trilogy which DAO effectively ripped off (undergrownd orc army invades, ugly fellow with dark eyes betrays us, etc) and never play any other fantasy rpg...

When you put it this way, you shouldn't enjoy pretty much any fantasy RPG.
Things I really did like - Orzammar, the Urn of Sacred Ashes (the whole buildup from reaching the secluded village to reaching the temple on the top of the mountain), the origin stories concept and the reactivity attached to the origins. Things that were really underwhelming - the drawn out Deep Roads part, the Brecilian Forest, and the severely cut Denerim. I think these are things most people agree on, apart from the edgier "everything is shit" types.

 

[FreeKaner]

The main problem with DA:O is it is a barely functional, and overall very generic setting and game. It has few moments though.