Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[Roguey]

Maybe, but focusing on strengths is good practice in general. Obsidian seem to have focused on the flaws instead. Looks like it worked out in some areas, and backfired in most others.

Would Pillars have anything you'd even consider a strength?

 

[Urthor]

it was a (mild) success DESPITE these missteps.

So the correct course of action would have been to spend even less budget on the story and writing

The Codex I knew thought that the Bioware approach of "We didn't do this right so we should just cut it entirely" was lazy.

Maybe, but focusing on strengths is good practice in general. Obsidian seem to have focused on the flaws instead. Looks like it worked out in some areas, and backfired in most others.

Game development is about making your weaknesses (writing etc) good with a *minimal amount* of time invested by not being ambitious with them, and still having them look good when you put a bare minimum of effort in.

The thing is if you have a single standout bad area it becomes something people notice and it usually *drags* the game down, so you kind of have to be pretty flat

 

[KyivAfter12am]

it was a (mild) success DESPITE these missteps.

So the correct course of action would have been to spend even less budget on the story and writing

The Codex I knew thought that the Bioware approach of "We didn't do this right so we should just cut it entirely" was lazy.

If you have unlimited budget and time, then sure, all aspects of the game should be perfect. Most game developers, as you well know, are a couple of sales flops away from bancruptcy.

I must say this approach seems sad to me too, but even that is better than trying to fix what people whine about in Metacritic reviews.

 

[Sensuki]

Would Pillars have anything you'd even consider a strength?

Sure, as I said before the original Pillars release, I think the main strength of PoE1 is probably character *building* (in other words, designing your character) - there are lots of race, class, skill, talent and item combinations and that seems to appeal to people who are into that part of playing games. All of these combinations work to an extent that you could finish the game with them on any of the standard difficulties. You can design your character, play it (and it will work) and win (provided you pick up the combat). This was a design goal that was achieved quite well, not without compromise of course.

The Codexers who seem to have enjoyed the game enough to continuously post about playing the game in the Pillars threads seem to be people that enjoy character building/designing their character.

For a lot of RPG fans - this is enough to keep them interested, but for the general gamer as a whole, I don't think it is. For me - it's a set and forget part of the game unless the game requires higher interactivity with your build to progress - such as AoD.

The reason why I think people didn't return for the sequel is mostly because of two issues combined - I don't think people enjoyed the combat, and I don't think the story was good enough to keep people going. Set aside all of the specific issues that I may have had - engagement etc. I think that the combat was just different enough from the standard feel of top down RT(wP) combat to throw people off / make people feel uncomfortable. The game is a bit fast and a bit lethal (the first 5 seconds in combat have A LOT more weight than most similar games) and requires getting used to. I think enough people couldn't figure this out that and died or didn't like it enough, and stop playing out of frustration.

The Temple of Eothas in the first town was also probably a bit on the hard side (great for us) and I think that area combined with the combat style frustrated the hell out of many first time players and I think the a large portion of the people that didn't complete Act 1 were done in because of these reasons. It's kind of funny because it's an optional area, but I think most players who got to that part of the game entered that area and didn't realize that it wasn't compulsory.

I think the story is responsible for people dropping off before the end of the second act. When the main story falls, it then leans on the side content to keep it up. I don't think that the side content was at a good enough level to carry the midgame, actually that's where the side content is the weakest.

So yeah I think that the first game is definitely a contributing factor to the low sales of the sequel.

 

[Roguey]

Sure, as I said before the original Pillars release, I think the main strength of PoE1 is probably character *building* (in other words, designing your character) - there are lots of race, class, skill, talent and item combinations and that seems to appeal to people who are into that part of playing games. All of these combinations work to an extent that you could finish the game with them on any of the standard difficulties. You can design your character, play it (and it will work) and win (provided you pick up the combat). This was a design goal that was achieved quite well, not without compromise of course.

The Codexers who seem to have enjoyed the game enough to continuously post about playing the game in the Pillars threads seem to be people that enjoy character building/designing their character.

Deadfire allegedly improved this further by adding multiclassing and more skills. I'm not sure how they could improve it moreso by sacrificing less of everything else (after all, they did hire additional system designers in addition to Josh).

 

[Safav Hamon]

Not allegedly. It's the biggest improvement in the sequel.

They added multiclassing, subclasses, more abilities to every class, better itemization, and 12 new skills.

 

[Chris Avellone]

There's zero chance Paizo gives them the rights to a sequel. You heard it here first.

Wow.

 

[2house2fly]

I don't see how more skills helps. Half of them are speech skills, Sawyer walking back his "I'd like to marginalize speech skills into the trash" design from POE1 with a vengeance

 

[LizardWizard]

Not allegedly. It's the biggest improvement in the sequel.

They added multiclassing, subclasses, more abilities to every class, better itemization, and 12 new skills.

Reducing party size to 5 was not a improvement. Especially after they added a full of array of AI scripts

Josh definitely gets the lion-share's of blame on that one

 

[Safav Hamon]

Managing only five characters is plenty for RTwP, especially considering how 'ability centric' the combat is.

You can't dismiss how many more potential builds there are in Deadfire compared to the first game. The difference is night and day.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Would Pillars have anything you'd even consider a strength?

Sure, as I said before the original Pillars release, I think the main strength of PoE1 is probably character *building* (in other words, designing your character) - there are lots of race, class, skill, talent and item combinations and that seems to appeal to people who are into that part of playing games. All of these combinations work to an extent that you could finish the game with them on any of the standard difficulties. You can design your character, play it (and it will work) and win (provided you pick up the combat). This was a design goal that was achieved quite well, not without compromise of course.

The Codexers who seem to have enjoyed the game enough to continuously post about playing the game in the Pillars threads seem to be people that enjoy character building/designing their character.

For a lot of RPG fans - this is enough to keep them interested, but for the general gamer as a whole, I don't think it is. For me - it's a set and forget part of the game unless the game requires higher interactivity with your build to progress - such as AoD.

The reason why I think people didn't return for the sequel is mostly because of two issues combined - I don't think people enjoyed the combat, and I don't think the story was good enough to keep people going. Set aside all of the specific issues that I may have had - engagement etc. I think that the combat was just different enough from the standard feel of top down RT(wP) combat to throw people off / make people feel uncomfortable. The game is a bit fast and a bit lethal (the first 5 seconds in combat have A LOT more weight than most similar games) and requires getting used to. I think enough people couldn't figure this out that and died or didn't like it enough, and stop playing out of frustration.

The Temple of Eothas in the first town was also probably a bit on the hard side (great for us) and I think that area combined with the combat style frustrated the hell out of many first time players and I think the a large portion of the people that didn't complete Act 1 were done in because of these reasons. It's kind of funny because it's an optional area, but I think most players who got to that part of the game entered that area and didn't realize that it wasn't compulsory.

I think the story is responsible for people dropping off before the end of the second act. When the main story falls, it then leans on the side content to keep it up. I don't think that the side content was at a good enough level to carry the midgame, actually that's where the side content is the weakest.

So yeah I think that the first game is definitely a contributing factor to the low sales of the sequel.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Sensuki.

 

[Grunker]

Not allegedly. It's the biggest improvement in the sequel.

They added multiclassing, subclasses, more abilities to every class, better itemization, and 12 new skills.

I was about to hit agree and then you went full fanboy. Better itemization? Pillars 1 has like a million items and a good deal of those are Soulbound items. Pillars 2 certainly feels like a step back in itemization.

Don’t get me wrong, there are fucking fantastic items there and the people who dog on Pillars in general for itemization are insane, it’s just that pillars with WM is even better

 

[Quillon]

70% of the characters in the game are "diverse". The language is Caribbean bushspeak where you have to mouse over the words to find the english meaning. Everyone has some forced vaguely ethnic accent. Every sidequest is about some oppressed minority needing help. The art direction is just bad, from the lazy character portraits that are some kind of indian/Caribbean watercolor mess to the bland and cavernous dungeons that lack the complexity of the first game. The ship sailing mechanics are just tiresome, a sink for money and supplies that makes you not want to get onto the ship at all. The game should be renamed "Pirates of the SJW Caribbean".

Haven't seen a post of this caliber on Codex yet. You are losing your touch Codex :D

 

[AwesomeButton]

Someone should really lay off 4chan.

These posts are the equivalent of watching 8 hours of porn with no break and then recognizing actressess when you go out.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Pillars 2 certainly feels like a step back in itemization.

You cannot be serious.

 

[Alpan]

Not allegedly. It's the biggest improvement in the sequel.

They added multiclassing, subclasses, more abilities to every class, better itemization, and 12 new skills.

I was about to hit agree and then you went full fanboy. Better itemization? Pillars 1 has like a million items and a good deal of those are Soulbound items. Pillars 2 certainly feels like a step back in itemization.

Don’t get me wrong, there are fucking fantastic items there and the people who dog on Pillars in general for itemization are insane, it’s just that pillars with WM is even better

Safav is a Fanboy/Troll multiclass, but I'm not sure what you're on about here. Even with the fewer Soulbound items in Deadfire, itemization is much improved compared to the original.

EDIT: Got ninja'ed by IHaveHugeNick.

 

[Parabalus]

Not allegedly. It's the biggest improvement in the sequel.

They added multiclassing, subclasses, more abilities to every class, better itemization, and 12 new skills.

I was about to hit agree and then you went full fanboy. Better itemization? Pillars 1 has like a million items and a good deal of those are Soulbound items. Pillars 2 certainly feels like a step back in itemization.

Don’t get me wrong, there are fucking fantastic items there and the people who dog on Pillars in general for itemization are insane, it’s just that pillars with WM is even better

Deadfire items are a class above PoE:WM.

 

[Grunker]

Well with such opposition I guess I gotta relent, but answer me this: where are all the souls bound items? I think I found two or three and I have cleared almost the entire map and am close to the end of the game.

 

[Grunker]

Yeah a quick google shows PoE1 had way more

 

[Parabalus]

The DLC ones for Dumpsterfire aren't on the wiki yet.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Have the expansions improved things that much? I haven’t played Deadfire since the summer, but I was underwhelmed by the unique loot in the first few months after release (admittedly, the upgrade system is a big improvement).

 

[Grunker]

Have the expansions improved things that much? I haven’t played Deadfire since the summer, but I was underwhelmed by the unique loot in the first few months after release (admittedly, the upgrade system is a big improvement).

Upgrade system is huge but dont expect WM style improvements from the expansions, they’re much, much smaller in scope

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

I think the problem is that PoE 1 and 2 felt like a game made by SJW accountants.

PoEs are soulless IE games that fell like they were conceptualised by a Netflix algorithm. The preferences used as inputs in the algorithm either fail to identify what these games are about, or do identify, but are simply terrible in comparison. Great cRPGs have lots of personality, because they express their creators, which are passionate PC gamers. You can't throw a bunch of unexperienced feminist millennials among experienced developers and say “Please, make another BG game”. The result will be trash.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

First game had plenty of items to pick from, but in terms of depth most of the loot was incredibly superficial. A lot unique items were worse than generic version with upgrades and sometimes the uniques are no different from generics apart from cool name and lore-dumpy description.

 

[lophiaspis]

I don't get SJW vibes from POE1. But then I'm not hypersensitive to that kind of thing

>wigster liberal
>snarky defense of status quo
>unpunctuated sentences

Have you ever considered that you are, in fact, an SJW?