Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[Galdred]

What happens if you play Chaos in the mega campaign, given that facing chaos is supposed to be the endgame? Do you have to repel other chaos warbands?

 

[Raghar]

What happens if you play Chaos in the mega campaign, given that facing chaos is supposed to be the endgame? Do you have to repel other chaos warbands?

In WH I you got one small army, was supposed to sack to get favor to get large army, defeat enemies and loot them for money, and force Norsca tribes to help you.
In reality, Tilia send few armies through vampire territories from other part of world, One Norsca tribe decided to jump on throat of other. And of course one of these more powerful stuff decides he wants to have fun as well and jumps into the fray.

So, if they wanna to keep tradition, they could simply spawn ONE, small chaos stack in ME, and git gut.

 

[Ludovic]

The most hilarious bug at the moment is that battle difficulty settings are reversed, ie Very Hard is Very Easy. It also baffles me that they are surprised at players not being particularly interested in the Vortex campaign. Someone at the top obviously thought ME was just a neat little gimmick to drive a bit of cross-version sales. Same with Norsca - yeah, they claim it's a merge issue, Norsca being built on WH1 tech and not easily portable to WH2. Well uh, all the other ME WH1 factions had to through the same migration process.

The real reason is probably that WH1 Norsca is full of hacks and special-purpose code, and was never meant to be ported to the ME side-show. Just like the foundation update, RoR, etc. Someone thought players wanted a new campaign, when most players saw WH2 as an expensive race pack, with the Vortex campaign as the sideshow.

I suspect this has thrown a giant wrench into the WH3 plans, which was probably being designed as primarily a stand-alone campaign, with a few token updates to ME. I wouldn't be surprised if WH3 is scrapped as a stand-alone game, and becomes a high price-point expansion for WH1+WH2 instead. Players will be able to buy a WH1+WH2+Expansion Edition, WH1+WH2 owners can buy it as standalone, while those who own only one of the games, have to go buy the other one.

 

[thesheeep]

It also baffles me that they are surprised at players not being particularly interested in the Vortex campaign.

How did you get that impression?

 

[Maculo]

What happens if you play Chaos in the mega campaign, given that facing chaos is supposed to be the endgame? Do you have to repel other chaos warbands?

My Archaon playthrough was a while ago, but I remember another Chaos champion tries to usurp you and the advisor gets btfo by Tzeech. Until then, you play a horde faction and raid/raze settlements for money.

At least on normal, I found Chaos and Beastmen easier than Empire and Dwarves. You can take your time (to an extent) and there is no territory to hold or defend. If a doomstack comes after you, you can pick up and run. Granted, on higher difficulties I assume more factions will run across the map after you.

 

[MediantSamuel]

Norsca in May 2018, fucking lol.

Good job CA, you made me believe you weren't still a shit company and then you ruined it.

 

[Maculo]

I suspect this has thrown a giant wrench into the WH3 plans, which was probably being designed as primarily a stand-alone campaign, with a few token updates to ME. I wouldn't be surprised if WH3 is scrapped as a stand-alone game, and becomes a high price-point expansion for WH1+WH2 instead. Players will be able to buy a WH1+WH2+Expansion Edition, WH1+WH2 owners can buy it as standalone, while those who own only one of the games, have to go buy the other one.

Where are you getting this? Mortal Empires was just one game mode and the other patches/DLC are scheduled for December, January, and so on. The December update allegedly will contain a new game mode. Furthermore, while I like Norsca, it is not as if the other factions are missing.

I am not happy about it, but I would hardly call this a catastrophic error to the extent it would hamper future patches. If anything, CA is prioritizing patches and DLC over Norsca in Mortal Empires.

Why would delays to part of a game mode scrap or ruin a third installment?

 

[Ludovic]

Why would delays to part of a game mode scrap or ruin a third installment?

Well, I hope I am wrong, but I don't think they planned to do this post-release work to integrate Norsca, RoR, Foundation etc. into ME. I don't think they expected people to be upset about ME missing these things - hence the delays. There's a tone of damage control in their blogs which to me suggests they feel the reception has been worse than they anticipated. It's certainly commendable that they're fixing these things, and I'm sure there were voices in the studio with concerns about ME being a post-release, not fully finished thing.

Having to divert resources to post-release fixes which can't be monetized, delaying paid DLC, etc. that's going to go down as a bad thing from a top management perspective. I do think it's a possible scenario that WH3 gets re-scoped as a result (also considering the sales of WH2 are qlower than WH1, which granted may have been expected). Also because the big stars of the Warhammer world are already done - Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Daemons, Kislev and misc. oddball factions don't have nearly the oomph of the WH2 faction gallery. I know many have mentioned Cathay, Araby, etc. but GW don't have a history of allowing license holders to focus on those.

I'm expecting a Warhammer: End Times kind of thing, which is basically improved ME with a few new factions and requiring ownership of the previous titles. To attract new buyers there'll be an edition including WH1+2. And honestly, if they're not allowed by GW to do Cathay, Araby, Nippon, etc. then it's really a better choice to end the series with a solid WH All-Stars than another stand-alone trying to do too much at once. But hey, maybe they'll spring a stand-alone with a cool campaign and ME+. I've been known to be mistaken plenty times before.

 

[Maculo]

The blog certainly is damage control, but what I would point out is that the Norsca/ME patch is slated for May, whereas we have DLC slated for December and January. The May date, in my mind, indicates that CA is pushing ahead with current projects, as opposed to accepting further delays. In fact, I interpreted the blog to mean that Norsca/ME is unfortunate, but not the main priority at the moment. The main priority being the release of paid DLC to bring in revenue. This feels like a top management decision to begin with.

As for WH3, I definitely expect Total Warhammer:End Times. The only part of the world left to expand on is East, which contains the Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Wastes, Cathay, etc.

 

[fantadomat]

Norsca in May 2018, fucking lol.

Good job CA, you made me believe you weren't still a shit company and then you ruined it.

It is fucking game company,they are all evil! Also they have ton of past fan's anal drilling exorcises. Still remember what shit the Rome2 was.

 

[Vibalist]

What happens if you play Chaos in the mega campaign, given that facing chaos is supposed to be the endgame? Do you have to repel other chaos warbands?

My Archaon playthrough was a while ago, but I remember another Chaos champion tries to usurp you and the advisor gets btfo by Tzeech. Until then, you play a horde faction and raid/raze settlements for money.

At least on normal, I found Chaos and Beastmen easier than Empire and Dwarves. You can take your time (to an extent) and there is no territory to hold or defend. If a doomstack comes after you, you can pick up and run. Granted, on higher difficulties I assume more factions will run across the map after you.

I found Chaos maddeningly difficult, but I don't know how much of it is down to Steel Faith Overhaul, which I installed the minute I bought WH2. First of all, every AI settlement - almost from the very beginning - is walled (Norsca factions excepted). You're never attacking small settlements manned by a few units, but completely upgraded fortresses that have full stacks. Chaos' economy is 100 percent based on razing, so to avoid bankruptcy you must fight siege battles every other turn.

This is obviously doable, as Chaos units are incredibly strong, but it starts to wear you out after a while. Partly because your units replenish very slowly in the beginning (sometimes not at all, if you're in enemy territory), but also because it's boring and samey. You also need to consider you're at war with almost everyone. The only factions that can help you are the - as of now - unfinished Norsca tribes and the Vampire Counts and Greenskins, if you can make an alliance with them. I don't recommend allying with the Skaven faction right next to the Chaos Wastes, because they negate the spreading of Chaos corruption and and never seem to attack The Empire.

The thing that was most difficult, however, is the fact that the AI is really, really good at resettling razed settlements. I once made a beeline for Altdorf, thinking I could fuck up The Empire's economy by destroying their capital. They didn't really seem to mind, and just starting building new settlements in the areas I had razed previously, and in a few turns all of these settlements were fully upgraded. Unless you're really thorough and methodical in how you attack your enemies, they will rebuild and resettle cities faster than you could ever destroy them. Bear in mind, too, that maintaining two or three armies is very expensive, so you never have enough manpower to attack a faction from all sides. Especially not when their military allies are also attacking you, forcing you to retreat and/or slowly advance.

My experience with Chaos is best summed up by something that happened at around turn 150. I had tried to eradicate the Empire (who just kept rebuilding with no apparant damage to their economy) and had hardly made a dent in Bretonnia. I started noticing that my allies, The Vampire Counts, kept losing ground and scrolled down to see what was going on. There I saw fifteen full stacks of Dwarven armies, moving around in threes and fours. They had apparantly destroyed the Greenskins early on and were now steamrolling the Undead. And there I was, with my three armies that I could barely afford to maintain despite raiding and razing almost every turn, fighting not only the dwarven doomstacks, but an Empire that just kept rebuilding everything and a Bretonnia that had expanded all the way into the North due to Norsca's complete inability to defend itself.

Looking back at it there were definitely things I could have done differently to avoid this situation, but this is probably the most difficult campaign I've ever played in a TW game. That being said, you need to take this with a grain of salt, because I don't have any idea how vanilla works.

 

[Maculo]

What happens if you play Chaos in the mega campaign, given that facing chaos is supposed to be the endgame? Do you have to repel other chaos warbands?

My Archaon playthrough was a while ago, but I remember another Chaos champion tries to usurp you and the advisor gets btfo by Tzeech. Until then, you play a horde faction and raid/raze settlements for money.

At least on normal, I found Chaos and Beastmen easier than Empire and Dwarves. You can take your time (to an extent) and there is no territory to hold or defend. If a doomstack comes after you, you can pick up and run. Granted, on higher difficulties I assume more factions will run across the map after you.

I found Chaos maddeningly difficult, but I don't know how much of it is down to Steel Faith Overhaul, which I installed the minute I bought WH2. First of all, every AI settlement - almost from the very beginning - is walled (Norsca factions excepted). You're never attacking small settlements manned by a few units, but completely upgraded fortresses that have full stacks. Chaos' economy is 100 percent based on razing, so to avoid bankruptcy you must fight siege battles every other turn.

This is obviously doable, as Chaos units are incredibly strong, but it starts to wear you out after a while. Partly because your units replenish very slowly in the beginning (sometimes not at all, if you're in enemy territory), but also because it's boring and samey. You also need to consider you're at war with almost everyone. The only factions that can help you are the - as of now - unfinished Norsca tribes and the Vampire Counts and Greenskins, if you can make an alliance with them. I don't recommend allying with the Skaven faction right next to the Chaos Wastes, because they negate the spreading of Chaos corruption and and never seem to attack The Empire.

The thing that was most difficult, however, is the fact that the AI is really, really good at resettling razed settlements. I once made a beeline for Altdorf, thinking I could fuck up The Empire's economy by destroying their capital. They didn't really seem to mind, and just starting building new settlements in the areas I had razed previously, and in a few turns all of these settlements were fully upgraded. Unless you're really thorough and methodical in how you attack your enemies, they will rebuild and resettle cities faster than you could ever destroy them. Bear in mind, too, that maintaining two or three armies is very expensive, so you never have enough manpower to attack a faction from all sides. Especially not when their military allies are also attacking you, forcing you to retreat and/or slowly advance.

My experience with Chaos is best summed up by something that happened at around turn 150. I had tried to eradicate the Empire (who just kept rebuilding with no apparant damage to their economy) and had hardly made a dent in Bretonnia. I started noticing that my allies, The Vampire Counts, kept losing ground and scrolled down to see what was going on. There I saw fifteen full stacks of Dwarven armies, moving around in threes and fours. They had apparantly destroyed the Greenskins early on and were now steamrolling the Undead. And there I was, with my three armies that I could barely afford to maintain despite raiding and razing almost every turn, fighting not only the dwarven doomstacks, but an Empire that just kept rebuilding everything and a Bretonnia that had expanded all the way into the North due to Norsca's complete inability to defend itself.

Looking back at it there were definitely things I could have done differently to avoid this situation, but this is probably the most difficult campaign I've ever played in a TW game. That being said, you need to take this with a grain of salt, because I don't have any idea how vanilla works.

I have not tried Chaos in ME yet, and that obviously changes the difficulty. To answer Galdred 's question though, the endgame for Chaos should be to battle the Chaos usurper in ME (see spoiler link below) and finish off any remaining factions.

Spoiler

My Chaos walkthrough was on normal difficulty and with SFO installed. I only ever played a single stack and while that may sound insane, it worked on normal. I invested everything I could into upkeep reduction shrines/upgrades/tech, and stronger infantry (I ignored monstrous units for a long time). I ignored Norsca and went straight for Kislev, where I found I could overtake small settlements with Archaon. although I got lucky and caught Kislevs main army outside of its settlements. At that point, I selectively farmed weaker factions. If I hit too much resistance, I would return to Kislev, who resettled their cities, to farm more currency and levels. I delayed finishing weaker factions, because I could always rely on them for easy money.

 

[tabacila]

I don't think they'll go so far east in the third game as to include Cathay, Ind or Nippon. Besides the lack of much fluff/lore it would strain the engine even more.
My bet it that the combined W1+W2+W3 will probably just add the eastern unused side of the Mortal Empires map.

Spoiler

It has enough space for Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms, while Chaos Divided can just be horde factions like Warriors of Chaos.

The only problem I see with W3 is what 'good' factions are there to put in the third game. Daemons and Chaos Dwarfs are evil and Ogres are just... hungry. The higher ups need a good guy faction to sell to the more casual player.
Kislev seems a clear option, but on what kind of a map would you get the main players as Kislev, Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres with little influence from other nearby powers? The Eye of the Vortex map worked because it took place on different continents far from the Old World.

Btw dwarfs are insufferable right now in ME because the ease with which they win auto resolves against other AI and confederate. Most of the time you aren't fighting endless hordes of chaos but endless hordes of armored stunted bastards.

 

[Fedora Master]

In January, we’ll be getting the Tomb Kings. Probably. Almost definitely. The first campaign pack for Warhammer 2 was meant to be out in December, but it’s slipped back a little too. And it looks like the Tomb Lords will be getting to take part in the Vortex campaign as well as Mortal Empires.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/12/06/tomb-kings-will-hit-total-war-warhammer-2-but-not-yet/

 

[Raghar]

Kinda wonder when pirates would release update. But considering how buggy mess is this, pirates are hesitant to release something, they have theirs honor.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Cyberarmy]

RIP my poor pc...

 

[tabacila]

And here I thought the new experimental mode would be a balanced and bug-free Mortal Empires.

 

[thesheeep]

The game must be doing good for such nonsense to get a trailer

 

[Ludovic]

That looks weird and uninteresting. Probably didn't require a lot of developer resources, but still, looks like something aimed at streamers and youtubers. The Intel partnership probably paid for it, so I can't really complain at free content, even if it's silly and somewhat useless.

 

[Morkar Left]

Not sure about useless. If you can use it in campaign mode some things of it will be good like impact size etc. It's basically what some mods used to do. But yeah, low gravity and other bullshit...

 

[fantadomat]

Soooo the scavens are the borg now?

 

[Brinko]

Woops

 

[Fedora Master]

They already confirmed that Tomb Kings will make it into the game eventually.

 

[Brinko]

True but I always love when a company tries to be sly about what is coming up with obvious hints and some outside marketing stooge fucks it up completely.