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Pathfinder Why Owlcat's Kingmaker Sucks, in Plain Language

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by Gregz, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. frajaq Arbiter

    frajaq
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    understand your annoyance but you kinda HAVE to with the way resource replenishment works in Pathfinder (and older D&D systems), otherwise you can just rest-spam and go fight after fight with all spells ready and rofl-stomp everything in your path

    is it flawed? thats up your taste on rpg systems
    does it work on Kingmaker? kinda depends on what difficulty your playing and just how power-gaming you're being with setting up your party
     
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  2. Alphard Educated

    Alphard
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    time management is not a skill i want to be tsted in videogames
     
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  3. Alphard Educated

    Alphard
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    ok, i get the point of balance, but was time limit the only solution to that problem ? i'm not an expert of D&D rules, but i'm sure tgey could've came with something less detrimental to playability of the game for many players
     
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  4. Harthwain Scholar

    Harthwain
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    Well, somebody thought it would be an interesting addition to their game, so they decided to implement it. There always will be people who like or dislike certain things, but such is life. Not much more to add here, in all honesty.
     
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  5. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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    Yep, 90% of their potential player base.
     
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  6. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You don't even know what the menu is for yet.
     
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  7. CaesarCzech Learned

    CaesarCzech
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    dont have instant gameover event imho. Have harder and harder DC and impacts but allow players to rebuild from failing the events.
     
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  8. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    P:K time limit mechanics are 90% carrot, 10% stick.

    Game over isn't (close to) an issue once you understand what is happening. As implemented most elegant solution to balancing Vancian rest spam/CON dumping yet devised. Here's what stick looks like:

    https://lparchive.org/Krynn-series-DD-Gold-Box/Update 39/
     
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  9. CaesarCzech Learned

    CaesarCzech
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    Just realized that the title of newest update is reference to love blooms on battlefield with that Warhammer stuff.
     
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  10. Lilura RPG Codex Dragon Lady

    Lilura
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    Nice. Except:

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Luckmann Arcane Zionist Agent

    Luckmann
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    Why would you search your own blog for job opportunities?
     
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  12. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    I'm at 50-60 hours played now and it's amazing to me how stupid most of the complaints are in the OP. Especially the one about loot and weight. I've been at "light" encumbrance permanently since buying my first weight reduction bag, and I pick up pretty much anything that's worth selling. I don't know what the fuck you could possibly be doing for encumbrance to be a problem. The kingdom management isn't my thing, but it seems like mostly harmless busywork so far. I'm interested in playing with it on "auto" someday, but it's not so annoying it harms the game for me. The time limit complaint seems super overblown to me so far. Once you understand it basically means "do the main quest ASAP and then side stuff" it's pretty simple to manage, so even though I don't think I agree with it as a design decision it doesn't really hurt my experience. Same for resting, which other than the slow ass main map interface process is no big deal, and I like how it's limited.

    My main issues, mentioned briefly in the OP, are these two:

    1) Encounter design. It's mostly enemies just thrown on the map, with little strategy needed. This is especially obvious in many of the bigger areas, where it's basically just 3-5 monsters in small clumps randomly thrown around. Even main quests are usually just a big group of goblins in row, or randomly spawning spiders, nothing that feels well designed or specifically planned.

    2) Lack of direction can really be annoying, and I say that as someone who fucking hates quest markers with a passion. My issue is more a lack of quality dialog hints. I just finished the "bloom" quest (SPOILERS) and had to google to take the lamp out of my inventory to finish the riddle, something that doesn't seem like it was hinted to at all in dialog. The lamp is there to get you through the mist, but you have to remove it to pass through the final mist? What? There's little things like that throughout the game, which makes it feel like "Google: The Game" sometimes. I'm sure some will rush in to tell me they never had this issue, and I bow to your greater intelligence, but I think it's mostly a translation/writing issue where things they thought were clear and hinted at were actually not. At least for dummies like me.

    Anyway... of the 20+ complaints, I think 90% of them are way overblown. The game is obvious incline, and super fun.
     
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  13. Gregz Arcane

    Gregz
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  14. Au Ellai Educated

    Au Ellai
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    It's as good as it could be for the flawed RTwP system. Could be better, but could be much worse.

    True. Mods make it more tolerable, but it was a pretty poor implementation all-around.

    Just about every RPG out there does this to some extent. Not even worth mentioning as a negative unless it's extremely in your face, but it's not. Doubt most people even notice.

    It takes like 20 seconds at the most in the few cases you're going from one end of the map to the other. Not even worth mentioning unless you demand bullshit teleport-everywhere game design kids with no attention span love so much.

    Fuckin' lol. Do you just read the last few pages of every book you pick up and call it good? Probably don't even read if the concept of events setting up future events is a flawed concept you have trouble with.

    "My opinion is right, everyone else's is wrong. Only my concept of Lawful-Neutral matters, and Owlcat made a shit game because they have their own view of it. How dare artists create art from their own visions."

    "WTF, I can't have a backpack full over 300 shovels and cabbages. Shit gaem."

    Yeah that's kinda lame.

    They're crowded inns with thin walls full of drunk people, dafuq you expect?

    "I can't blow my load of abilities every single battle and then rest with no consequences between every fight and I have to actually interact with the attrition battle system that is a hallmark design of like 70% of games ever made. Shit gaem."

    "My wizard isn't also a legendary blacksmith and alchemist and cook and carpenter that can put every artisan in the world to shame that makes artifacts worthy of gods, even without training or a stocked location. I have to have experts in my kingdom help do it! Shit gaem."
    Every game needing crafting is modern popamole decline.

    "I can't get half a level and the wealth of nations from killing 3 goblins, I have to actually go dungeon diving and fight more difficult encounters. Shit gaem."

    The time limits are so generous they may as well not even be there. If you actually hit them, it means you tried to hit it, and tried hard.

    Sure. But there are also barely any puzzles.

    There's literally a tutorial pop-up in the quest saying to use a torch, a line in your quest log about using a torch, the item description for the torch mentions it. You have to be blind or illiterate to not notice you need to use a torch. If that was too much trouble for you, I'm not surprised the rest of the game felt unintuitive.
    "How was I suppose to know my wizard used spells and not heavy armor and two handed weapons? I gave him high strength! Unintuitive."

    A leader of an entire nation, one of the main elements of the game that was part of the game's description and an entire selling point and feature, is improved by a charismatic character? Say it ain't so! Of course having a low charisma is going to be a challenge run in a game where you're a nation's leader. That's player choice and consequence, not shit design. Shit design would be making your charisma not matter.

    Agreed. Even on my ssd the load times were pretty crazy, and it was annoying having to go back every few days.

    "I have to actually progress through the game and deal with encounters at the level intended and can't spend 3 days grinding goblins so as to remove any effort and challenge from the rest of the game. I don't want to move the difficulty slider down, I want to _immersively_ lower the difficulty!"

    You mean the main meat of the game occurs through the whole thing and isn't just training for "end game" like modern popamole mmo's have trained us? How dare they make the full game engaging with a sense of progression through the entire thing and not just a bunch of shit that doesn't matter, and then "end game/post game."

    Maybe at launch, not now, and not when this OP was posted.

    This OP post was bait, and I'm disappointed in myself for even taking the time to rebutt this. You had like 3 main points, and the rest only make sense if you're a 13 year old that's only played Battle for Azeroth as his first RPG and is disappointed other RPG's aren't matching up.
     
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  15. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    The encounters are terrible because the enemies have no AI whatsoever. Their solution for this is greatly simplifying certain rules and giving enemies ridiculous stats.
     
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  16. Jesus The King of Poland Patron

    Jesus
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    Imagine becoming a wizard and never crafting legendary, magical armaments for you and your party. Truly a life wasted in musty books.
     
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  17. you know what time it is Arcane

    you know what time it is
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    The problem with nitpicking like this, is that you can take apart any good game, pick up a piece and say "See! what a dogshit design!".

    The systems do not exist in vacuum though and it's always been about how it all works together, for me - P:K was an ACTUAL spiritual successor to the games I fell in love with back in the day. It became more than sum of its parts and transcended all of its technical shortcomings, because you knew - people that made it, actually gave a shit. Now compare that to all the bullshit Obsidian/Harebrained/inXile or any other Kickstarter false prophets have made in the past decade.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  18. NJClaw Ontopolover Patron

    NJClaw
    Joined:
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It's amazing how they even acknowledge that with loading screen tips, with the abysmal "A good strategy is to send the character with the highest AC first, so everyone will focus on him". Come on.
     
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  19. Curratum Cipher

    Curratum
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    Here's my review for Kingmaker:

    Not Recommended
    Posted: 25 Sep, 2018 @ 11:18pm
    No, I don't want to wait 6-8 months after I buy a game to be able to play it without mountains of bugs.

    Best of luck to Owlcat, but frankly, fuck this shit. I still haven't played the damn game.
     
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  20. NJClaw Ontopolover Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The game is playable now and it's definitely worth a full playthrough. Bury the past, enjoy the present (the present being one of the best crpgs in ages)
     
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  21. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Soviet Union
    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Have you refunded the game?
     
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  22. Theldaran Arbiter

    Theldaran
    Joined:
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    I played little, so you're free to dismiss this, but it looks to me that they made a colourful package, and put lots of options, but the game really fails at any and all meaningful aspects. It's a true imitation of a CRPG, but just a mirage. Open the fancy package and there are crumbs inside. Owlcat ate your cake.
     
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  23. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    That's the setup. It spends the rest of the game subverting it.

    Book, cover, etc...
     
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  24. Theldaran Arbiter

    Theldaran
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    It's still an indie game, and it shows.

    The classics were AAA games in their time.

    That's why we can't have nice things today. POE squandered all our hopes when it gathered 4M and spent them unwisely. After that, many people said "enough".

    In fact, KS may have killed the classic RPGs forever.
     
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  25. A heavy combat game with RTwP. I need someone to explain to me why this game sucks.

    :philosoraptor:
     
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