RPG Codex Top 50 cRPGs - Retards who cannot read and Discussion thread

[MMXI]

It's definitely better than almost all the AAA western RPGs released lately (Mass Effect series, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim) and has better production value than the rest of the recent western RPGs.

Well considering a mentally retarded African child could make a better cRPG than the AAA junk we've been getting for many years, this isn't exactly high praise.

If you're stuck in the "RPGs need to have a party and be turn based, otherwise they're not RPGs" paradigm, then I'm sorry for you.

Thanks.

I still don't see Dark Souls as a "western-style RPG". For a start, there is no western style. Mass Effect is way further away from Wizardry than Final Fantasy is.

 

[suejak]

^ Racism?

 

[Metro]

So, name the redeeming features of New Vegas.

Quests.

Weren't bad but weren't anything special.

 

[dnf]

Then explain the butthurt about Dark Souls. Nevermind that it's not a classic JRPG but a western-style RPG developed by a Japanese team and that it's a better WRPG than most of the WRPGs released during the last 10 years or so.

How is Dark Souls a western-style RPG? It's nothing like Wizardry, Wasteland, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Pool of Radiance etc. Single character, action combat. It's an action RPG, a type of game that was quite big in Japan back in the 80s, before it really became a thing over here.

Oh, I forgot. It doesn't have an anime art style. That makes it a western-style RPG.

Yeah, single character and action combat. That's not what makes or breaks a RPG. If you want to go back to "What is a RPG?", then be my guest. Dark Souls is an open world action RPG. It's definitely better than almost all the AAA western RPGs released lately (Mass Effect series, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim) and has better production value than the rest of the recent western RPGs. If you're stuck in the "RPGs need to have a party and be turn based, otherwise they're not RPGs" paradigm, then I'm sorry for you.

Would be okey if he made a party-based turn based list only. Some tastes do differ after all, so its best to keep lists sub-genre friendly.

 

[skuphundaku]

I still don't see Dark Souls as a "western-style RPG". For a start, there is no western style. Mass Effect is way further away from Wizardry than Final Fantasy is.

For me, the most important part of western-style RPGs is the open world aspect. All the JRPGs I had the displeasure of playing were shitty and linear whereas many of the most highly regarded western RPGs of my time had an open or, at least, partially open world. I hold Fallout 2 and Arcanum as the quintessential western RPGs and I hate blobbers with a passion, so you using Wizardry as your reference for western RPGs means that we're talking entirely different languages.

 

[suejak]

So, name the redeeming features of New Vegas.

Quests.

Weren't bad but weren't anything special.

Quests you can fail without losing, each having several possible (re)solutions and ramifications on complex bi-axial reputation system governing player's relationships with a dozen distinct fleshed-out factions... weren't special?

 

[dnf]

Jesus guys. Let me repeat for you, SUB-GENRES. RPG is like a synounim of Games and ARPGs, Blobbers, Turn based are the genres. Is this that hard? the need to compare a game like Betraial at Krondor against a game like Diablo is the reason there is so much derp in these discussions.

 

[skuphundaku]

Jesus guys. Let me repeat for you, SUB-GENRES. RPG is like a synounim of Games and ARPGs, Blobbers, Turn based are the genres. Is this that hard? the need to compare a game like Betraial at Krondor against a game like Diablo is the reason there is so much derp in these discussions.

I already said that the best idea would have been to have this as a free for all: if you consider it a RPG, it is a RPG. Then, at the end, based on that raw data, you can extract information such as which genre is most popular, which game is most popular etc. By adding a shitload of rules in the OP, you're just shooting yourself in the foot and castrating the whole enterprise from the get go.

 

[dnf]

For me the only rule necessary is the genre restriction. So if i want to make a list of the best turn based blobbers, i will just allow turn based blobbers, whatever the game platform. restricting the sub genre is enough to make a proper and useful list, instead of putting lots of retarded rules.

 

[Metro]

So, name the redeeming features of New Vegas.

Quests.

Weren't bad but weren't anything special.

Quests you can fail without losing, each having several possible (re)solutions and ramifications on complex bi-axial reputation system governing player's relationships with a dozen distinct fleshed-out factions... weren't special?

For 2010 standards, maybe.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm still waiting for support to open a Top 50 Console RPG thread!

 

[Marsal]

For me the only rule necessary is the genre restriction. So if i want to make a list of the best turn based blobbers, i will just allow turn based blobbers, whatever the game platform. restricting the sub genre is enough to make a proper and useful list, instead of putting lots of retarded rules.

Why don't you start by listing all the "sub-genres" and their definitions? This should be good...

 

[dnf]

I'll leave this sub-genre definitions to the "rpg" experts wich i'm not. Oh wait, the rpg experts don't even know how to define a rpg, let alone a sub-genre :baby: ...
And i don't like to make threads in CRPG dicksuction because the mods are too anal...

 

[skuphundaku]

I'm still waiting for support to open a Top 50 Console RPG thread!

For what I'm concerned, go ahead and make it happen.

 

[skuphundaku]

For me the only rule necessary is the genre restriction. So if i want to make a list of the best turn based blobbers, i will just allow turn based blobbers, whatever the game platform. restricting the sub genre is enough to make a proper and useful list, instead of putting lots of retarded rules.

We have trouble defining what a RPG is and you're proposing drawing arbitrary lines among sub-genres of a genre that can't be accurately defined? That would mean that such a poll would never even start. I maintain that the best idea would be to make a "everything goes" poll and, after you have real data, you can start classifying what you have.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

what's so great about this? The factions? You can find that shit in most MMOs. Grind rep with Caeser's Legion! Grind rep with NCR! Grind rep with Boomers!

trolololo

 

[dnf]

For me the only rule necessary is the genre restriction. So if i want to make a list of the best turn based blobbers, i will just allow turn based blobbers, whatever the game platform. restricting the sub genre is enough to make a proper and useful list, instead of putting lots of retarded rules.

Why don't you start by listing all the "sub-genres" and their definitions? This should be good...

Vault Dweller made a thread at http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php?topic=198.0 but its pretty lacking

Now let me list the subgenres:
Tactical turn based games
Real time blobbers
Turn based blobbers
Hack and Slash
Fps rpgs
Third person rpgs
Turn based party based rpgs
Turn based story driven rpgs(Jrpgs galore)
rtwp party based rpgs
rtwp story driven rpgs(Dragon Age 1,2,etc...)
single player turn based rpg

Could have more though...

 

[Deuce Traveler]

In fairness, I think there are some out there that may have only played around 25 computer RPGs ever. So there are some that may have a pretty crappy list if they try to create the top 25 they ever played. I'm going to run into that issue when we go to name our top 25 console RPGs.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm still waiting for support to open a Top 50 Console RPG thread!

For what I'm concerned, go ahead and make it happen.

'Kay, it's live!

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...popamole-weeaboo-rpgs-vote-thread-only.78250/

 

[suejak]

I think it's more interesting that the people running these lists are too insecure to allow console games on to the list. I guess then it'd be too clear what the true demographics of the site are.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

In fairness, I think there are some out there that may have only played around 25 computer RPGs ever. So there are some that may have a pretty crappy list if they try to create the top 25 they ever played. I'm going to run into that issue when we go to name our top 25 console RPGs.

The rules say you can list less than 25 titles if you can't think of that many.

 

[felipepepe]

I think it's more interesting that the people running these lists are too insecure to allow console games on to the list. I guess then it'd be too clear what the true demographics of the site are.

We can later cross the number between my Console-only Top 50 and Jeasun's PC only Top 50... that should be interesting.

 

[skuphundaku]

For me the only rule necessary is the genre restriction. So if i want to make a list of the best turn based blobbers, i will just allow turn based blobbers, whatever the game platform. restricting the sub genre is enough to make a proper and useful list, instead of putting lots of retarded rules.

Why don't you start by listing all the "sub-genres" and their definitions? This should be good...

Vault Dweller made a thread at http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php?topic=198.0 but its pretty lacking

Now let me list the subgenres:
Tactical turn based games
Real time blobbers
Turn based blobbers
Hack and Slash
Fps rpgs
Third person rpgs
Turn based party based rpgs
Turn based story driven rpgs(Jrpgs galore)
rtwp party based rpgs
rtwp story driven rpgs(Dragon Age 1,2,etc...)
single player turn based rpg

Could have more though...

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Just trying to list all the combinations is a fool's errand. What is needed is to define what are the criteria used for classifying RPGs and then, for each criterion, decide what are the options. For example, I would propose:

1. Perspective:
a) subjective (first person or over the shoulder third person)
b) objective ("isometric")

2. Number of player characters:
a) single player character
b) party-based

3. Timing
a) fully turn-based
b) turn-based combat and real-time exploration
c) real-time with pause
d) fully real-time

4. Focus
a) story-focused (focused on storytelling)
b) exploration-focused (focused on exploring the game world)
c) adventure-like (focused on non-combat interaction with the game world)
d) combat-focused (focused on combat interaction with the game world)

5. Game world type
a) open world
b) semi-open world
c) linear

6. Character system
a) classless
b) class-based

7. System type
a) probabilistic
b) deterministic

Starting from this, you notice that you already have 2x2x4x4x3x2x2=768 possible combinations, which means MUCH more possible sub-genres than anybody tried to define. Instead of bitching about sub-genres, the best way to do it would be to get the full, raw list of candidate games, consider each option a tag and, then, to each game affix the appropriate tags . At that point, anybody could filter the list of games by the tags they're interested in and extract the information that they find relevant/useful.

 

[Marsal]

'Kay, it's live!

Good work agent Jaesun! Now we just wait and ban all that post in that thread! Ingenious plan!

 

[Brayko]

Deus Ex: Human Revolution

What.

As a possible candidate for Jaesun's BROlist I want you to explain why Deus Ex: Human Revolution is one of your top 25 cRPG's.

I had fun with it? There was some interesting quests? Multiple paths? Replay value? It's Cyperpunk and not Homo Gay elf fantasy? Robocop references and inspirations? Despite it's shortcomings like forced boss fights, excessive focus on hacking, and disappointing ending(s)?