SaGa Series Discussion

[Robber Baron]

https://pastebin.com/kRbSg6PG

God Bless people who do stuff for free out of passion
I mean that's a damn good FAQ

 

[NerevarineKing]

https://pastebin.com/kRbSg6PG

God Bless people who do stuff for free out of passion
I mean that's a damn good FAQ

God bless all the people that wrote the Unlimited SaGa FAQs, that must have been a huge undertaking.

 

[Thac0]

i never played these games before. what are they like? FF like gameplay? what are they about? what are the sub series (like frontier, romancing, etc) where should i start?

They are the continuation of the train of thought that went into FF2.
That means no level ups. You gain stats after combat at random, depending on what sort of combat style you used during the fight.
You learn new abilities for your weapon type by attacking strong enemies. WIth some luck you get a "spark", which is a small lightbulb showing up over you head, and you use a new attack free of charge. Afterwards the attack gets added to your moveset, and costs AP to use. Most attacks spark of the basic attack, some however need special spark lines (triple stab sparks of double stab and so on)
Usually the games have level scaling for random encounters, but not for bosses. So most random mobs won't be terribly threatening, unless your hidden power metric (Battle Rank) reaches a new height and they get bumped up a tier.
Also the healing economy is very different. You usually get healed to full after every encounter, and hp is cheap. Bosses can frequently oneshot your units. But normal heals can revive characters. There is no aoe healing, or it is at a very bad rate. There is a second currency of HP called LP which can in some games lead to permadeath upon running out, but usually just prevents you from being revived in combat.

To sum up how all of this stuff plays in combat: Very swingy and fast fights, where unexpected stuff happens constantly and you always have to plan ahead for a level of risk. Also tons of hidden information in everything you do. Sparking system alone is very satisfying, so that if a game contains sparking (like Alliance Alive for example) it is usually called a SaGa like just for that.

Outside of combat the games tend to be very very nonlinear, have just as much hidden information and a fair bit of weirdness to them. Kawazu's mission statement is to make a JRPG closer to crpgs - Every choice matters and you can never know everything about the game and keep discovering new stuff wherever you go. The games tend to be fairly hard if you don't use a guide as a consequence to all the hidden information, but the longer you play the more you understand them, and you get better at them.

Old main series is called FF Legend 1-3. Those are sometimes called SaGa I-III as they were not called Final Fantasy in Japan. Not a very good starting point, as they do not have ability sparking yet. They have a very bonkers setting, with magical worlds connected by towers and stuff, and unit race plays a huge role. Humans, Espers (Mutants), Mechs and Monsters play very differently from each other.
After that there is Romancing SaGa. The title is based on a random shlocky adventure movie Kawazu has seen once. These feature a fairly classical fantasy world with some low level magitech stuff, not unlike Final Fantasy. Romancing SaGa II and III are good entry points here, as they are very easy to get due to the remasters.
Romancing SaGa II is a very interesting game, as you play an entire line of emperors reincarnating all abilites of the predecessors over centuries fighting 7 former heroes, now turned demonic villains. It is a good starting game, because it is a game with ability sparking that does not have multiple starting characters yet, but it can also be a bit tedious since you need to remake your entire build after each generation swap, something which will happen about 20 times and takes 10-30 minutes each time. I started here and did not regret it.
Romancing Saga III is all around a very safe starting point. You can choose the main character of the game out of 8 different heroes, which modifies the story and mostly your starting scenario and end point. Some starting characters make the game much harder, but that also gives it insanely high replayablity. This mechanic has become a mainstay in SaGa.
SaGa Frontier takes those established mechanics of Romancing Saga (multiple starting characters, ability sparking, nonlinear story) and fuses them with the race mechanic of FF Legend 1-3 (Humans, Espers, Mechs, Monsters). It also has a super crazy setting chock full with anime and other culture references, and a very interesting artstyle. If you can stand the radiant weirdness it makes a strong starting point, although you will have to learn much at once.
Saga Scarlet Grace is the newest standalone SaGa game, and all around pretty good. Nothing wrong with starting here, has all the SaGa tropes as far as I know. I havn't played it yet. New world with no or little ties to previous worlds.

There is no real reason to start with SaGa Frontier II or Romancing Saga I at the moment, since the stories between games is not continous, and those games have remasters announced. Since the SaGa revival is the personal pet project of one of the higher ups at Square those all tend to be high quality.
There is no real reason to play Unlimited SaGa not only because there is a remaster pending, but also because the game is considered the worst SaGa.

TL DR:
SaGa games are nonlinear JRPGs with high exploration, good combat, level scaling, much hidden information and many unorthodox mechanics.
Start with Romancing Saga II, III, Saga Frontier I or SaGa Scarlet Grace. You can't really go wrong between those.
Play FF Legend I-III later or wait for Square to port a better version than the gameboy version.
Play the other games when they get their remasters.
These games are generally considered to be some of the best JRPGs in the market and they deserve their reputation.

 

[Thac0]

Oops this has become a bit of a wall of text.
One final important tip:
If your starting SaGa game starts with a character choice do a bit of research on who is a recommend starting character. Starting with a bad starting character like

Spoiler

Lute or Mikhael

can make your game much harder to learn.

 

[Ataraxia]

For those interested:

The FF legend 1 - 3 got remakes: The wonderswan color for ff legend 1 and Nintendo DS for ffl 2 and 3.

1.) For FFL 1, type in google 'Makai Toushi SaGa (English)' to find the rom, and click on the first link (fantasyanime) and download the 'pre-patched' file for the wonderswan color from there. you can also download an wsc emulator from there if you want.

2.) For FFL 2, type in google 'SaGa 2 Hihou Densetsu (English Patched)' and click on the first link (cdromance) and download the 2.11 version if you're going to play on a DS emulator, which you can also download from the same site.

3.) For FFL 2, type in google 'SaGa 3: Shadow or Light (English Patched)' and click on the first link (cdromance) and download the rom from there where you can play in a DS emulator which you can also download from the same site.

 

[Haplo]

I'm thinking of playing a jrpg in the near future.

What would you recommend:
one of the SaGa games (Frontier or Scarlet Grace)
or
SMT Nocturne when it comes out in May?

 

[Jinn]

I'm thinking of playing a jrpg in the near future.

What would you recommend:
one of the SaGa games (Frontier or Scarlet Grace)
or
SMT Nocturne when it comes out in May?

Difficult question. I'd say that if you you're itching for something to play now and it's your first Saga game, grab Scarlet Grace. It's definitely strange as far as the Saga series goes, but has some of the absolute best turn-based RPG combat I've ever played, has excellent in-game explanations for the mechanics, the quest design is interesting and surprising, and the exploration is fun despite it not being what you might expect.

If you don't care if you have to wait, play SMT 3. And then play a Saga game in the near future. FYI, I firmly believe that Romancing Saga 2 is the best Saga game to start with as an introduction to the series, particularly if you read up on it a little before you play. Almost every Saga game has great replayability too, where as I believe SMT 3 might have a good 2-3 fulfilling playthroughs. Still hundreds of hours of entertainment though.

 

[NerevarineKing]

I think Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song (PS2) has some in-game tutorials, but it's far from comprehensive. However, this will require emulation or owning a PS2. If you don't mind the weird character designs and crappy English voice acting, it's one of the better games in the series. But if you want to choose between SaGa Frontier or Scarlet Grace, you can't go wrong with either game. SaGa Frontier was rushed and is rough around the edges, but it has a really interesting setting and is very open-ended in every scenario. I have not played Scarlet Grace, but the combat is supposed to be the best in the series.

 

[Derringer]

If you don't mind the weird character designs and crappy English voice acting

The American anime union cartel did dub voices for it, it has the usual bad voice acting.

 

[Haplo]

Thank you very much for your recommendations, Jinn and NerevarineKing.

I think I will wait for Nocturne. Not really in a hurry, currently early in Troubleshooter (recently recruited Anne). The gameplay and character development are pretty great. Not sure the "story" is going anywhere, though. Which is a shame, I like my games not too long and having conclusions.
Also early in Nioh2... although it kinda feels like Nioh1+, so not sure I will finish even the first path.

Anyway, might pick up SaGa afterwards.

 

[JDR13]

There is no real reason to start with SaGa Frontier II or Romancing Saga I at the moment, since the stories between games is not continous, and those games have remasters announced.

When was a remaster of SaGa Frontier II announced?

 

[Robber Baron]

I caught myself in an unexpected situation in mystic girl scenario where

Spoiler

I'm being obliterated by the third green sage(?), I only just recently found 2 additional memebers for a full 5 man party, so they are very low on HP and dont survive his AOE shots, which leaves me with a 3 man party that can't take him on and I can't grind to get better because his battle starts automatically every time I enter any combat zone.

Is this one of those restart from the beggining moments?

 

[TigerKnee]

Those events only trigger at specific locations - I think the Bio Lab is a place which happens to not trigger them, so you should try grinding there instead.

Unless you're trapped backwards because you triggered one on the way out of the dungeon and it's blocking your way, in that case, too bad.

 

[Robber Baron]

- I think the Bio Lab is a place which happens to not trigger them

Yep Biolab is safe thanks

 

[Thac0]

I am about to kill my first abyss lord in Romancing SaGa 3, and this game is odd. I don't know what to think about it.
Splitting the BR for each line of monster is a mistake. When I fight fish type enemies now I get actually a fun fight. If I fight a plant I get a 200 hp 5 damage dealing wimp.
Magic is bad in this game, so much weaker than in Romancing SaGa 2. I have recruited

Spoiler

Undine

and she is the first character to deal halfway decent damage with a spell.
Tech sparking is nice, mastering techs takes a lot of tedium away, and there are a lot of techs, many with cool niche applications.
Crown system is bad, punishes hybrids and offcasters. In combination with bad magic and good techs it leads to 4 of my doods having physical crowns and only one having spells at all, which is obviously less fun than having more casters.
The world however is really good. Feels like an Erikson world at times, it throws you right in into this alien place, but everything leads back to the matriarch and the 4 abyss lords. RS 2 had decent worldbuilding at the end aswell, with the dimensional stuff, this game tops it. Strange for a game with so little story.
Scenarios and dungeons are hit or miss. Some have really weird triggering orders and strange point of no returns. Others are fun and very imaginative. So many recruitable characters are cool however.
Overall the game balance feels off. There was only one boss that was a fun and balanced challenge,

Spoiler

A necromancer in a well who drops the Archfiend Shield. Maybe Undine and Volcano after that.

. Every bossfight except that was either a complete stomp with my team annihilating the boss in a few turns, or unwinnable so I had to go and do something else first.

Currently this is my least favourite SaGa from those I played much (FF Legend 1+2, Last Remnant, Romancing Saga 2), although it is far from bad and still very enjoyable. Hyped for SaGa Frontier after that, as I love the race mechanics from FF Legend and they claymation aesthetic a la Moon Remix RPG.

 

[Derringer]

Unlimited SaGa is fun for a map exploration game, the focus isn't really on the combat moreso than building and doing quests with your characters. Combat's slow though, just like SaGa Frontier 2, definitely needs the emulation turboskip.

 

[Derringer]

Unlimited SaGa is fun for a map exploration game, the focus isn't really on the combat moreso than building and doing quests with your characters. Combat's slow though, just like SaGa Frontier 2, definitely needs the emulation turboskip.

Currently this is my least favourite SaGa from those I played much (FF Legend 1+2, Last Remnant, Romancing Saga 2), although it is far from bad and still very enjoyable. Hyped for SaGa Frontier after that, as I love the race mechanics from FF Legend and they claymation aesthetic a la Moon Remix RPG.

Saga Frontier a good game, just really fucking broken and with the New Game+ in the re-release even more fucking broken.

 

[Reinhardt]

Dat feeling when you type "scarlet grace undub" in google and it brings you right back to codex

BROs, thanks to my trusty retailer FatGirl including the JAP version in the premium package, I was able to create an undub for the game. Just a simple swap of \Voice\ folder. Not extensively tested, but it sounds to be working fine. ~170 MB, instructions in readme.txt.

May the Weeboo God Bless you.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ag6mujr0awz3d3t/

 

[Reinhardt]

I have no idea what i's doing, especially about learning magic.

 

[Reinhardt]

Learned secret art of DUAL WIELDING and got decent mage. Even learned two new spells with her.

 

[Reinhardt]

Much harder to play marathon when every fight is boss fight...

 

[Jinn]

All Steam SaGa games besides SaGa Frontier are 60% off on the Humble Store right now. Great deal for great games. Get them now if you've been thinking about it!

Romancing SaGa 2 and 3!

SaGa Scarlet Grace!

 

[MpuMngwana]

 

[Abu Antar]

Not counting any budget restraints, the reason I have a big fondness for the series is that there's no compromise. Kawazu does what Kuwazu does, and if you don't like it, tough luck.

I can understand why some people give up on his games. They're not easy if you just go in, expecting your run-of-the-mill jrpg. They can be unforgiving if you don't get them, yet they can feel very rewarding once you do. Most people just want to sit down and have as chill an experience as possible. The series doesn't cater to a big audience, but rather a niche, which I am a part of.

 

[Kalarion]

I owned all 3 Legends on my Gameboy, it was interesting how drastically they changed over the series while keeping certain core characteristics. Certain mechanics behind 1-2 were very opaque and could potentially kill a playthrough as well. That was my first experience with that kind of thing. Legends 3 may as well have been a mainline Final Fantasy, it completely got rid of learn-by-doing and weapon/spell durability. It did have a really neat spell crafting system near the end of the game though. Nothing incredible, just being able to create a group of legendary spells using magicite that you found all around the world(s). Monster morphing was still in but was actually fully documented in the instruction manual (a first for the series afaik... let me tell you how frustrating it was to deal with tier downgrading and seemingly random family switches in FFL 1-2), and was available at any time to all 4 characters (they could switch back to Human/Mutant as well).

All in all I agree with Thac0... the SaGa games' systems are much more opaque and difficult to grapple with then standard JRPGs, but they're extraordinarily satisfying to master. Some memories from FFL 2 are still clear in my mind all these years later... figuring out that monster food had a predictable system behind it, getting into legendary tier monsters for the first time after eating Byakko meat on the way to the Core, killing the Haniwa for the first time and getting my first 7-branch sword... good times.