Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Gothic Chronicles Of Myrtana: Archolos mod for Gothic 2

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,512
On top of that all, I doubt you could find too many instances where Gothic 2 excels over Archolos in quest design. I get that you were a different person when you played Gothic 1 and 2, and nostalgia certainly plays a part, but your bias is a little absurd in this situation.
This is the world we are living in. This is what codex has turned into.

The few who stand proudly are myself, fucking ryzer and darth suxxor. What a shitshow.

The game is shit and Jinn is super shit.
 

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
385
What you people are completely missing in 'zumg you can also get overpowered in chapter 1 in gothic' is that unlike in Archolos, in Gothic that is simply neither encouraged nor supported, and if anything it's effectively discouraged because important things that allow you to spiral out of control are chapter locked. You won't find any remotely effective armour before joining any faction, and without effective armour you'll get one-hit-killed by everything; you won't get access to any higher-tier trainers; and you won't get access to some of the top-tier abilities (like brewing stat-increasing potions) not only until you reach a later chapter, but also not unless you join only one specific faction. That means you have to wait with steamrolling the entire big map until you progress through the main quest and hulk up, and killing trolls and whatever in chapter 1 there is truly the domain of turbo-autists only because you have to whack them for half an hour. Meanwhile in Archolos none of that is true. You can get master alchemy already from the alchemist in the hut outside the starter town. Better gear (INCLUDING ARMOUR) is much easier to come by and not locked by faction membership. It's generally A LOT easier to become a demigod in Archolos than in Gothic, and I'd expect someone making a game like this who appears to understand what made Gothic Gothic NOT wander into such a painfully glaring pitfall. If you think this is a 'minor gripe' then this is just another bout of reality bending.

Also Jinn you're very cute with your 'zomg roxor such a bad contrarian hating poor modders!!!' when if you'd take off your butthurt fanboy glasses you'd maybe remember that I was initially very positive about Archolos despite being sceptical about it before playing, but I eventually grew to dislike it when the bad things kept piling up and pissing me off to an increasing degree.
Your weird obsession over a minor design difference has stopped you from enjoying something greater than the sum of it's parts. You're the odd duck out for approaching a game series about role playing and immersion in this whacky "vacuum" playstyle that nobody who loves Gothic would do.

As Marvin, some kid from a backwater town who's had barely any life experience, most players innately understand brute forcing the game with exploits and rushing skeletons for XP would be immersion breaking and thus not do it.

Actually I commend the devs for creating a more immersive and freeform world than the originals which as you point out arbitrarily restrict your progress via the main quest.

Stop being weird and just use your imagination while engaging with the experience in good faith man. Most experiences in life require some suspension of disbelief.
 

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,512
Archolos is designed almost exactly like Gothic 2
I love them invisible walls in the first 10 minutes of g2. Getting teleported for walking in the wrong direction as a way of introducing your design philosophy makes me want to suck your dick and sing your praises on a declined gaming forum.

You people deserve bad christmas.
 
Last edited:

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
385
Archolos is designed almost exactly like Gothic 2
I love them invisible walls in the first 10 minutes of g2. Getting teleported for walking in the wrong direction as a way of introducing your design philosophy makes my want to suck your dick and sing your praises on a declined gaming forum.

You people deserve bad christmas.
A handful of unpaid modders make a 60+ hour masterpiece mod and you're worried about minor quibbles like this. Peak brainrot. You don't deserve Archolos and I'm glad you're missing out.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,215
Location
Djibouti
What you people are completely missing in 'zumg you can also get overpowered in chapter 1 in gothic' is that unlike in Archolos, in Gothic that is simply neither encouraged nor supported, and if anything it's effectively discouraged because important things that allow you to spiral out of control are chapter locked. You won't find any remotely effective armour before joining any faction, and without effective armour you'll get one-hit-killed by everything; you won't get access to any higher-tier trainers; and you won't get access to some of the top-tier abilities (like brewing stat-increasing potions) not only until you reach a later chapter, but also not unless you join only one specific faction. That means you have to wait with steamrolling the entire big map until you progress through the main quest and hulk up, and killing trolls and whatever in chapter 1 there is truly the domain of turbo-autists only because you have to whack them for half an hour. Meanwhile in Archolos none of that is true. You can get master alchemy already from the alchemist in the hut outside the starter town. Better gear (INCLUDING ARMOUR) is much easier to come by and not locked by faction membership. It's generally A LOT easier to become a demigod in Archolos than in Gothic, and I'd expect someone making a game like this who appears to understand what made Gothic Gothic NOT wander into such a painfully glaring pitfall. If you think this is a 'minor gripe' then this is just another bout of reality bending.

Also Jinn you're very cute with your 'zomg roxor such a bad contrarian hating poor modders!!!' when if you'd take off your butthurt fanboy glasses you'd maybe remember that I was initially very positive about Archolos despite being sceptical about it before playing, but I eventually grew to dislike it when the bad things kept piling up and pissing me off to an increasing degree.
Your weird obsession over a minor design difference has stopped you from enjoying something greater than the sum of it's parts. You're the odd duck out for approaching a game series about role playing and immersion in this whacky "vacuum" playstyle that nobody who loves Gothic would do.

As Marvin, some kid from a backwater town who's had barely any life experience, most players innately understand brute forcing the game with exploits and rushing skeletons for XP would be immersion breaking and thus not do it.

Actually I commend the devs for creating a more immersive and freeform world than the originals which as you point out arbitrarily restrict your progress via the main quest.

Stop being weird and just use your imagination while engaging with the experience in good faith man. Most experiences in life require some suspension of disbelief.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Roleplaying
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,215
Location
Djibouti
On top of that all, I doubt you could find too many instances where Gothic 2 excels over Archolos in quest design. I get that you were a different person when you played Gothic 1 and 2, and nostalgia certainly plays a part, but your bias is a little absurd in this situation.
This is the world we are living in. This is what codex has turned into.

The few who stand proudly are myself, fucking ryzer and darth suxxor. What a shitshow.

strange bedfellows
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
100,107
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What you people are completely missing in 'zumg you can also get overpowered in chapter 1 in gothic' is that unlike in Archolos, in Gothic that is simply neither encouraged nor supported, and if anything it's effectively discouraged because important things that allow you to spiral out of control are chapter locked. You won't find any remotely effective armour before joining any faction, and without effective armour you'll get one-hit-killed by everything; you won't get access to any higher-tier trainers; and you won't get access to some of the top-tier abilities (like brewing stat-increasing potions) not only until you reach a later chapter, but also not unless you join only one specific faction. That means you have to wait with steamrolling the entire big map until you progress through the main quest and hulk up, and killing trolls and whatever in chapter 1 there is truly the domain of turbo-autists only because you have to whack them for half an hour. Meanwhile in Archolos none of that is true. You can get master alchemy already from the alchemist in the hut outside the starter town. Better gear (INCLUDING ARMOUR) is much easier to come by and not locked by faction membership. It's generally A LOT easier to become a demigod in Archolos than in Gothic, and I'd expect someone making a game like this who appears to understand what made Gothic Gothic NOT wander into such a painfully glaring pitfall. If you think this is a 'minor gripe' then this is just another bout of reality bending.
Loot in The Outer Worlds is fundamentally different from classic open world RPGs, in that weapon types aren't area-gated in any way. Gain enough levels while you're in Edgewater and you will come out of there wielding a big-ass Plasma Launcher.
What I've noticed is that Emerald Vale feels almost like a self-contained vertical slice. You can kit yourself out with heavy weapons, plasma rifles and power armor all within the game's first zone... Compare with New Vegas, where there are entire weapon and armor types that you just won't find in any of the game's early areas.

The Outer Archolos? :troll:

I agree with Roxor, this is important stuff and shouldn't minimized as a "minor design difference", although it won't be a game-killer for everybody.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
19,144
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
I agree with Roxor, this is important stuff and shouldn't minimized as a "minor design difference", although it won't be a game-killer for everybody.
It's not a minor flaw but judging from the chatter on the interwebz it's only a game-killer for Roxor.

I always try to minmax, especially in PB games, so sweeping up every whit of content in every chapter is my default MO, and I didn't become nowhere near a destroyer of the worlds in Chapter 1. It's absolutely NOT a situation you can find yourself in almost by chance, just by following the natural flow of the game. You have to intentionally try to break the game and spend dozens of hours doing so. IIRC Roxor himself said it took him over 30 hours to join the city guard? That's bananas, it took me half that and I was relatively thorough in Chapter 1.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,526
The game is shit and Jinn is super shit.
Ah yes, personal insults over a videogame. Suck a dick and Merry Christmas to you too, you miserable cunt. Hey, maybe try to play more than 30 minutes of the game in question before you chime in. I may disagree with Roxor and Ryzer, but their opinions actually mean something in this case, unlike yours. I'd be embarrassed to have you in my corner if I were them.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,215
Location
Djibouti
IIRC Roxor himself said it took him over 30 hours to join the city guard? That's bananas, it took me half that and I was relatively thorough in Chapter 1.

I actually revisited this thread earlier today to look for something when it turned out it took me 30 hours not to join the guild (which I picked and not the city guard), but to become a citizen of Archolos.

However it reminded me why I played this game the way I did and just hit the road instead of progressing along the main quest rails - I was getting so incredibly bored each time I had to do anything in Archolos city proper (because bad quest design) that I instead opted to do anything but city content. It's hardly surprising that I ragequit shortly after being forced to finally do shit around the city to progress any further - specifically, when I landed in pirate town. I remember the last straw being an unbeatable generic NPC tied to some stupid side quest that for all intents and purposes should have been possible to just knock the shit out to finish that quest but nope, fuck you player, you WILL do the fedex and you WILL love it.
 

sosmoflux

Educated
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
385
Damn those couple of guys working for nothing for years! Why couldn't they account for every conceivable possibility instead of making smart decisions so they could actually release something? Only 30 hours in Chapter 1?! Ugh gaming is dead. I'm so much smarter than everyone else.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
19,144
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Damn those couple of guys working for nothing for years!
I for one don't respect the appeal to workload. If I spent 5 years making my own car and it turned out to be a piece of junk the amount of effort wouldn't be an excuse.

But Archolos isn't a PoS, it's a great RPG with some balancing issues that you discover only if you spend dozens of hours trying to break the game. Kicking it to the curb just because of that is such a pure, unadulterated Codex thing to do.
 

deama

Prophet
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,177
Location
UK
It's a decent game, but I agree with Roxor, there's too many invisible walls, too many rails, and invincible npcs without good reasons.

Hopefully they can at least fix the balance issues with getting too strong too early and such in a good way (not giving high quality armour in beginning rather than putting more invisible walls). They were planning on adding in a hardcore difficulty via a big patch right? Is that still happening?
 

ShiningSoldier

Educated
Joined
Jul 21, 2024
Messages
190
I absolutely LOVE Archolos and I think this is the only game that is on the same level with Gothic 2 in the entire history of videogaming. But I absolutely don't like the abundance of invincible characters (almost every fucking peasant in a quest is a goddamn invincible) and invisible walls.
Examples: there was a quest about protecting alchemist lady from wild animals. And it turned out the main character was 100% useless in this quest, because... the lady is invincible. In the end bear attacked her, and she soloed the poor animal! The fucking bear! And I think she was armed with a branch or something like this.
I understand they wanted to create some cool quests, but as for me, it wasn't the good game design.
Or, for example, the fight against Ulryk. There are friendly mages and fighters out of the building, so I tried to leave the building to let them kill Ulryk. The door was open. And... I couldn't. There was an invisible wall preventing me from leaving the room...
It's some Fallout 3 level shit. Like the ending of F3, when a mutant says that he cannot enter the radioactive room because of some shitty reasons.
 

Spike

Learned
Joined
Apr 6, 2023
Messages
1,093
I absolutely LOVE Archolos and I think this is the only game that is on the same level with Gothic 2 in the entire history of videogaming. But I absolutely don't like the abundance of invincible characters (almost every fucking peasant in a quest is a goddamn invincible) and invisible walls.
Examples: there was a quest about protecting alchemist lady from wild animals. And it turned out the main character was 100% useless in this quest, because... the lady is invincible. In the end bear attacked her, and she soloed the poor animal! The fucking bear! And I think she was armed with a branch or something like this.
I understand they wanted to create some cool quests, but as for me, it wasn't the good game design.
Or, for example, the fight against Ulryk. There are friendly mages and fighters out of the building, so I tried to leave the building to let them kill Ulryk. The door was open. And... I couldn't. There was an invisible wall preventing me from leaving the room...
It's some Fallout 3 level shit. Like the ending of F3, when a mutant says that he cannot enter the radioactive room because of some shitty reasons.
That is hilarious. I accidentally triggered a mantis and he came down to the miners, and I thought they were toast so I booked it, and I come back and the thing is dead! Maybe the miners are tougher than I thought, but they seemed like they had weak items.

Any way, I am loving this game. It's crack, just like its daddy. So good. Only 6 or 7 hours in and I am already calling it GOTY 2021.
 

deama

Prophet
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,177
Location
UK
That is hilarious. I accidentally triggered a mantis and he came down to the miners, and I thought they were toast so I booked it, and I come back and the thing is dead! Maybe the miners are tougher than I thought, but they seemed like they had weak items.
Or maybe... the miner's are invulnerable?
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
30,112
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
That is hilarious. I accidentally triggered a mantis and he came down to the miners, and I thought they were toast so I booked it, and I come back and the thing is dead! Maybe the miners are tougher than I thought, but they seemed like they had weak items.
Or maybe... the miner's are invulnerable?
I remember doing some checks, most npcs in gothic 2 have like min 100 str and dex and all that. Even losers like that dude whose ring you loot, valentino or something.
 

deama

Prophet
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
5,177
Location
UK
That is hilarious. I accidentally triggered a mantis and he came down to the miners, and I thought they were toast so I booked it, and I come back and the thing is dead! Maybe the miners are tougher than I thought, but they seemed like they had weak items.
Or maybe... the miner's are invulnerable?
I remember doing some checks, most npcs in gothic 2 have like min 100 str and dex and all that. Even losers like that dude whose ring you loot, valentino or something.
This is archolos thread not g2.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
30,112
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
That is hilarious. I accidentally triggered a mantis and he came down to the miners, and I thought they were toast so I booked it, and I come back and the thing is dead! Maybe the miners are tougher than I thought, but they seemed like they had weak items.
Or maybe... the miner's are invulnerable?
I remember doing some checks, most npcs in gothic 2 have like min 100 str and dex and all that. Even losers like that dude whose ring you loot, valentino or something.
This is archolos thread not g2.
I'm assuming the same principle applies, everyone other than the player has stats higher than a kite.
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
4,123
Location
Mosqueow
That is hilarious. I accidentally triggered a mantis and he came down to the miners, and I thought they were toast so I booked it, and I come back and the thing is dead! Maybe the miners are tougher than I thought, but they seemed like they had weak items.
Or maybe... the miner's are invulnerable?
I remember doing some checks, most npcs in gothic 2 have like min 100 str and dex and all that. Even losers like that dude whose ring you loot, valentino or something.
They all have level 30-40 in G2 and can kick your ass easily but only in CH1. And there are some invincible npcs throughout the game of course. Gothic 2 uses more immersive ways than "essential npcs" everywhere to make player think twice about murdering innocents. Like Vatras refusing to deal with you permanently (luckly it only happened to me at the very end when i executed disciple Pedro in Irdorath, before that i killed Valentino and a few peasants) or huge fines by Andre. Fines in Archolos don't even work half of the time and easy to avoid and hence every named npc is invincible.

But at least you can beat them up in Archolos and take their shit. Which i'm going to do every time because they haven't fixed every woodcutter and coal burner having stacks of gold you can just take in CH1.
 

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
Patron
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
3,600
Location
Schläfertempel
It's a decent game, but I agree with Roxor, there's too many invisible walls, too many rails, and invincible npcs without good reasons.

Hopefully they can at least fix the balance issues with getting too strong too early and such in a good way (not giving high quality armour in beginning rather than putting more invisible walls). They were planning on adding in a hardcore difficulty via a big patch right? Is that still happening?
I agree too, but it didn't destroy my enjoyment of it overall. They clearly love the saga just as much as anyone who reveres Gothic 1 & 2. My guess is would be with the fedex quests/balance issues they probably just ran out of time and wanted to get it out. Still can't believe it was a mod...

Rewatched the 2.0 teasers, a lot of what they've promised seems like they're well aware of the issues. Hope they finish it.
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
4,123
Location
Mosqueow
G2 had a lot of fedex shite and G1 had that too despite there being barely any side quests past CH1. And G1 also was broken and unbalanced as fuck when you could wipe out everything with Scar's sword in CH1.

Biggest offender was G3, but who cares? It was just one of many reasons why it wasn't a good game and almost nobody here likes it.

My main problem with Archolos is modernist approach to some of it's design (certain death dialogue choices, ramped out amount of invincible npcs), polish devs fapped too much to Witcher 3 probably. Still it's great shit and better than whatever Piranha shat out after original dilogy and expansion. But my favorite will always be G2 NotR because of tough and very slow but rewarding progression. I just can't help but have the most fun when i play it.
 

Fargus

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
4,123
Location
Mosqueow
But my favorite will always be G2 NotR because of tough and very slow but rewarding progression
Yeah, loved that too. Too bad it ends once you get into the pirate area and cash in all those stone tablets

Its one of the reasons why i get rid of beliars insta kill sword and only consume perma stuff when i absolutely sure i will not invest LPs anymore. That way wiping out valley orcs in CH 2-3 will be much harder.

I never managed to dominate Khorinis in CH1 though.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom