Review 1UP torpedoes NWN2 - 5/10

[Volourn]

He's an idiot. It's NOTHING lik e BG. It's like NWN1.

 

[Claw]

After playing Baldur's Gate, I never gave another Bioware game a chance.
So what's the big difference between BG and NWN? All I know is they are both party- and D&D-based RPGs.

 

[Volourn]

If you hate one BIO game you should hate them all. Unless you are stupid. That is all.

 

[Zomg]

On a side note, Eurogamer posted their review (8/10) by Kieron "I love the sound of my own voice" Gillen.

Pfft, fuck Gillen. He's never met a critical conceit he didn't like - if a game can possibly be interpreted as an element of a grand trend he's forced to think he's out in front of it.

 

[Sol Invictus]

NWN2 is anything but mediocre. If anything, I'd consider the single player campaign to be a worthy successor to the Baldur's Gate series of games with all the good alignment and choice-based features from Planescape: Torment and the accessibility of the KOTOR games (The player's stronghold ala EBON HAWK comes to mind).

It has numerous flaws and issues, notably the slow framerate on high end systems running nVidia graphics cards. This is easily alleviated with the latest 93.** drivers from nVidia and disabling "Normal Mapping" triples the framerate for most people with decent graphics cards. I'm not even sure why that is enabled by default given that all it does is lower the framerate without offering any actual visual improvement. The other issue is the laggy interface and camera in multiplayer games. Beyond that, the 2nd patch has already been announced for graphical optimizations.

Despite its lack of polish, it hardly deserves a ridiculously low score of 5/10. Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, and both KOTOR titles were in much worse condition at release, so that's hardly an issue.

But hey, nevermind that. The stupid reviewer didn't mention any of the game's real flaws.

It looks to me like the reviewer doesn't like stat-driven RPGs, because his biggest qualms seem to stem from the fact that the game, like its predecessors, is very stat-based. It's a real joy for RPG and D&D enthusiasts, so I don't know what the fuck his deal is. I think he should just stick to writing reviews of Final Fantasy and other JRPGs.

1UP is typically a lot better with reviews, so this one (which is now pulled, thankfully) stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'm just going to quote this post from QT3 for truth.

That rules-lawyering doesn't bother some people doesn't mean you should've put a rules lover on doing the review. That would've been unfair to people who don't give a shit about the rules, and are just looking for a good PC RPG.

Guess we shouldn't have hardcore NFL fans reviewing Madden, either. (How pissed would football fans be if I dinged Madden 2007 and rated it a 4 for "not being more fun like Blitz or Mutant League?") We shouldn't have people with at least a passing knowledge of and preference for real-world racing review Gran Turismo or Forza, either; "dude, it sucks; where's the alternate routes and massive crashes from superior arcade racers like Burnout Revenge!"

Look, NWN2 is a D&D game, and SPECIFICALLY caters to the D&D fanbase. The bloody logo is all over the box. It has tools for making D&D2 modules. It allows for online multiplay using the D&D 3.5E ruleset. THE GAME IS ABOUT D&D FIRST, and generic RPGing second. The audience is D&D NERDS, not overall RPG fanboys in general.

This is the same shit the drives me nuts when I see Nightmare of Druaga, Pokeyman Mystery Dungeon and other roguelikes get dinged for -- get this -- BEING ROGUELIKES. A lot of people LIKE ROGUELIKE GAMEPLAY and want to know how the game holds up AS A ROGUELIKE. Just because it has stats and elves and dungeons does NOT mean it is supposed to play like Final Fantasy or Oblivion.

I hate the stupid sop they throw at the end of reviews like that: "...if you're a fan of mindless dungeon crawls, add X points to the score." Fuck YOU! How about: "...if you're looking for a traditional party-based RPG, subtract X points from the score" -- a reviewer should have ENOUGH experience in gaming to tell what the inspiration, influences, and audience driving a particular design entail, and what the appeal is! If you can't tell Druaga is supposed to cater to roguelike fans; if you can't tell that a DW game is designed to cater to BEU and series fans; if you can't tell that NWN2 is designed to cater to D&D fanboys: DON'T FUCKING REVIEW THE GAME.

MAF pointed out a hilarious review of Vice City Stories on IGN that ends with the same caveat (verbatim): "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories is essentially more of the same, for better or for worse. It's a nice leap over what we saw in last year's release of Liberty City Stories, but it still feels "safe" by many standards. The story is certainly sub-par and there are problems with close combat while armed with a firearm or when attacked in groups, but it still has all of the elements that makes every Grand Theft Auto game great. It's funny, doesn't take itself seriously, the gameplay mechanics are mostly great fun and the world is a fantastic place to screw around in."

The score: 9.0

Now, replace the GTA reference and the predictable series praise with Dynasty Warriors and the likewise predictable eye-rolling:

"Dynasty Warriors is essentially more of the same, for better or for worse. It's a nice leap over what we saw in last year's release of Dynasty Warriors, but it still feels "safe" by many standards. The story is certainly sub-par and there are problems with [strategic management] and the [combo-driven combat], but it still has all of the elements that makes every Dynasty Warriors game [tedious]. It's [laborious], doesn't take itself seriously, the gameplay mechanics are [the same old beat em up crap] and the world is [yet more ancient China] to screw around in."

The score would be a 4.5-6.0, largely depending on the reviewers mood. Yet this series is a million-selling series, and one many, many, MANY people love. How the fuck hard is it to find people who if not like than at least UNDERSTAND the appeal of a given game in a series or subgenre and have THEM review it?

 

[Sol Invictus]

He's an idiot. It's NOTHING lik e BG. It's like NWN1.

You're an idiot and a troll for saying so. NWN2 is closer to the Baldur's Gate games than even Icewind Dale was despite being the same engine.

The campaign is absolutely nothing like NWN's borefest.

 

[Sol Invictus]

This is relevant

 

[Claw]

If you hate one BIO game you should hate them all. Unless you are stupid. That is all.

Why, thanks for the advice. That's going to save me alot of trouble.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It looks to me like the reviewer doesn't like stat-driven RPGs, because his biggest qualms seem to stem from the fact that the game, like its predecessors, is very stat-based.

And yet the idiot starts his review by praising PST and IWD2.

"NWN2 leaves a lot to be desired, and that's too bad, because these are the guys who brought us Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale 2...and therefore they are the guys I'm least inclined to take issue with. "

 

[Micmu]

After a session of Dungeon Siege, he's pissed because they haven't "advanced the genre" - by actually turning it into an action game.
I curse his whole town.

 

[Volourn]

"The campaign is absolutely nothing like NWN's borefest."

Bullshit. Have you even played NWN2? It has A LOT in common with NWN OC. Only bullshitters think otherwise.


"NWN2 is closer to the Baldur's Gate games than even Icewind Dale was despite being the same engine."

No, it isn't. Stop bullshitting.


Stupid idiots thinking that comparing NWN2 to a DEAD game does the game justice. You insult NWN2. NWN2 is the sequel to NWN1, and it has the most in common with that game.

_________________

 

[Nael]

Stupid idiots thinking that comparing NWN2 to a DEAD game does the game justice. You insult NWN2. NWN2 is the sequel to NWN1, and it has the most in common with that game.

_________________

I'd have to agree. I see almost nothing in common with NWN2 and BG or IWD other than that it's a game set in FR. NWN2 is more like a combination of NWN1 and KOTOR2, which is hardly surprising. Anyone that thinks it's like BG or IWD or PST needs to get their heads examined or stop lying and go and actually play those games.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

You can tell Exitium cares a lot about a topic when he posts 4 times in a row to cover all his bases.

 

[Zomg]

It's weird that he mentioned Icewind Dale 2, which is probably the rule-crunching-est Infinity Engine game between being 3E D&D and an IWD pattern lewt game. I wish the guy had some feature column that he could use to talk about whatever his obfuscated thesis was instead of in an inappropriate review.

 

[aweigh]

I didn't like NWN1 much, if at all, yet pretty much loved both KOTOR's.

 

[Volourn]

That's because you are an idiot. The KOTORs are overrated.

 

[spacemoose]

That's because you are an idiot. The KOTORs are overrated.

Volourn, do you have ANY other passions besides NWN?

edit: oh wait I forgot that you're a hulkamaniac

 

[Volourn]

Yes, yes I do.

Yes, yes I am.

 

[aweigh]

They're different games Volourn. A lot of people like Warcraft 3 and don't like Star Craft, and other such examples. Disliking Doom 3; liking Prey. Etc.

 

[Sol Invictus]

"The campaign is absolutely nothing like NWN's borefest."

Bullshit. Have you even played NWN2? It has A LOT in common with NWN OC. Only bullshitters think otherwise.


"NWN2 is closer to the Baldur's Gate games than even Icewind Dale was despite being the same engine."

No, it isn't. Stop bullshitting.


Stupid idiots thinking that comparing NWN2 to a DEAD game does the game justice. You insult NWN2. NWN2 is the sequel to NWN1, and it has the most in common with that game.

_________________

Nope. The developers and even some of NWN's most ardent fans (not that their opinions matter) have gone out to admit that the original campaign in NWN was little more than a sample module and not what NWN was about - the multiplayer, persistent world servers and all. There was little to no choice to be had in NWN and there was no party to speak of, unless you consider one NPC following you around to be a 'party'.

NWN2 by contrast is a traditional 4-player party-based, stat-driven RPG in the vein of classic BioWare and Black Isle RPGs. It's borrows many of the good features from KOTOR, Torment and Baldur's Gate, with a good storyline and solid character interaction, culminating in what promises to be the successor to those games.

Unlike Oblivion, the developers did not set out to "advance the genre forward" in some lame ass direction. Oblivion might be decent game but it offered nothing in the way of character, story, or plot development. NWN2 is a traditional RPG and it excels at being what it is.

The multiplayer is another matter. It builds upon NWN's strengths and succeeds there. But realize, I'm talking about the single player campaign, which for all intents and purposes has nothing to do with NWN's horrible OC aside from the shared location. The single player is Neverwinter Nights only in name, but not in spirit. It has nothing to do with that poor campaign.

 

[Volourn]

Your are an idiot. Moron. And, you are also a full blown liar. Don't bullshit people.

NWN2 is a sequel to NWN1, and it feels, acts, looks, sounds, and is a sequel.

Period.


"There was little to no choice to be had in NWN"

You lie. As per usual. Come back when you can stop lying.

 

[Sol Invictus]

NWN's OC was a half-baked piece of crap that only served to showcase the game's scripting capabilities. Beyond that, there was nothing good about the storyline or its presentation, nor was it balanced for all the classes in the game, mainly due to the lack of a party. D&D has been and always will be a party-based RPG, and NWN's OC did not do anything to cater to this fact.

NWN2's OC is a direct contrast to NWN. It's a full blown, dedicated campaign that would manage to stand on its own feet even if it wasn't for the toolkit and DM client.

 

[Volourn]

They both could,a nd they both did.

Stop bullshitting again.

And, stop the lies! NWN OC was balanced just fine for all classes. This is a *fact*.

 

[Sol Invictus]

NWN's single player had a party? Where?